Anyone ever laid Paving Stones?

Here's One of my creek rock jobs...I've posted it all over HT and I know some of the regulars are getting tired of seeing it. (But who cares what they think?) My outdoor pit barbecue will be of similar appearance...

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"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

Boleyz,
thanks.
I like the look of your creek rock foundation also. your work looks great!
nice thing also about using pavers is that you can slope it rather than make steps. I did that in the other place I lived for an upper level patio from the lower level driveway. It sloped up about a foot. I just pounded the sand in on the slope and continued laying the pavers to join up for a smooth transition and no steps.
I also did like you with sweeping in fine sand over top. In this climate filling in with cement won't work because the freeze thaw would cause movement enough to crack it. Sand works out best.

love your fireplace stone! beautiful. awesome!

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The human spirit needs places where nature has not been rearranged by the hand of man.

Folks have already mentioned my two suggestions, compact the damp sand base and then pack it again after they are laid. we shovel about two inches of sand over the entire job, use a street broom to brush it into all of the cracks, then run the plate tamper over the sand covered pavers. The tamper really locks them in tight. That just leaves brushing off the excess sand. I always used sand because you can pull them up it you need to. I spent several hours when I was overseas watching them lay cobblestone walks and streets. I was impressed that they could work all day, on their knees, make the most impressive patterns with the cobbles and never be more than an arms reach from a bottle of beer. They all carried a big canvas satchel that had a trowel, brush, cold chisel and hammer---the rest was full of bottled beer. Walks and roads lasted for decades, and if you needed to do a pipe repair they just pulled the stones, fixed the leak, packed the sand and relayed the cobbles. No jackhammers or concrete forms.

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~Only the rocks live forever~

I've had several gardens with pavers put in (pathways, entertainment areas etc). It's a lot of work. My present garden is almost all pavers, done in the same pattern in your garden, Boleyz. I've found that you get better results if you use a compactor AFTER the pavers have been laid as well. Ideally, if you put down a layer of road base after you've done the digging, then tamp that down, then the layer of sand (using a screed to even things out), then the pavers and more tamping, the whole thing will be more stable. A layer of weedmat or black plastic under the lot will help to prevent weeds coming up. It's important to go back and spread more sand over the top of the pavers, and sweep it in. Even if you put the pavers flush together, there are still gaps which need to be filled in and you'd be surprised how much sand is needed for that. I've broken the rules a bit and added a little cement to the sweeping-in sand, then I give the area a gentle sprinkling, making sure that all the sand/cement has washed down the cracks. That helps to keep weeds from growing in the cracks. It will break down over time, because it isn't a strong cement mixture, but it also helps to prevent the sand from washing away during heavy rain.

It's important to remember to keep a slight gradient on paved areas. Ever so slight, to allow for water run-off. If you don't have this, the water gets down under the pavers forming a pool which will erode the sand underneath, no matter how tightly you've compacted it.

I built in a grade of about 1" over the 16' width. My main reason was to be sure the water ran away from the house. I can't stand having a standing puddle near the house. I try to build everything high and dry.

You guys have about talked me into trying the tamper. I just hope it doesn't break the stones.

__________________
"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

Well,
I've still got to do the final sweep in of fine, masonry sand. Right now it just has coarse, cement-grade sand as a base and as the first sweep-in. It's been wetted and some of it has already had a few hard rains on it.

There are some hills and valleys, but, this is my first try...I hope to start the firepit/barbecue this week. It will abut the long side in the center, but will have a footer and cement base. Then, I'll lay blocks to form the rectangular pit.

After it's all done, I'll finish it with creekrock over the blocks.

__________________
"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

Did you end up renting one of them tamper thingy's???

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I guess I'm too tight...I spent A LOT of time pounding each stone with a rubber mallet, so I figure they're "Tamped" good enough for me.

I may yet get one if I get to where I can't stand the high places...

The wife says they're not noticible and that I'm a perfectionist.

Her favorite saying as we worked together on this project was, "That's good enough, we ain't building watches here".

I figure...ok...the wife loves it...that's good enough.

But then I step back and see that little hump...I dunno if I can let it ride or not...I'm trying...

__________________
"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

Didn't Christopher Columbus say that?

Gosh, another CONTINENT could come out of this paving stone extravaganza!!!

Good one QB! How's the toe?

__________________
"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

I like the colors. What's the next project?

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~Only the rocks live forever~

I hope to start the firepit/barbecue this week. It will abut the long side in the center, but will have a footer and cement base. Then, I'll lay blocks to form the rectangular pit.

After it's all done, I'll finish it with creekrock over the blocks.

__________________
"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

When you say block, do you mean cinder blocks?

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I'll use 4" or 6" cinder blocks to form the rectangular pit. Creekrock will be layed with morter over the blocks for a more pleasing appearance, and large, flat rocks will be laid as level as possible around the top edge to serve as a bench for pople to sit near the fire. I'll lay firebrick in the bottom over the cement where the fires will be.

There will be a drain in one of the back corners to allow rainwater out, and I'm thinking about putting a propane burner in the bottom as well to make starting the fire easier. That's what they do at the Cracker Barrel restaurants.

__________________
"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

I have a friend named Dan who knows a thing or two about laying pavers. He laid over 300 feet of 1 foot pavers on a driveway over 12 feet wide!! He still walks with a slight bend in the back and his knees are shaved down a few layers. If you mention any word that ryhmes with pavers, such as shavers, flavors or favors, he begins to blink and quiver.....

Or is that blink and quaver?

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i have heard of people using rock dust instead of sand. something about the way it sets up? i imagine if it is limestone dust, it would set up into a flexible and yet bonding...bond.

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this message has probably been edited to correct typos, spelling errors and to improve grammar...

"All that is gold does not glitter..."

That might work, but most rock dust I've seen turns into a slimy mess when it gets wet...especially the limestone. I'm gonna go with the final layer of fine, masonry sand and see how that settles in.

In the spring, after lots of rain, snow and ice, the patio should be well settled.

Then (in the Spring) I'm going to take the pressure washer to the stones, avoiding the cracks as much as possible and see if that doesn't clean it up.

Some have mentioned landscape cloth to hold down the weeds, but a local guy told me the weeds would come anyway, not from beneath, but from above as they blow in and wash in.

I figure as long as they make round-up, I won't have a weed problem on the patio...

__________________
"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

dcam-I am sure it was more than 300 feet-shoot, I had FOUR 50 foot flatbeds loaded with pavers and only had about a wheelbarrow full when I finished!! You forgot about the loop around the driveway, the patio, the side walks, the patio in the woods, the sdiewalk to the greenhouse....If I had stayed there I think the twit would have wanted me to pave the roof of his McMansion!!
For what it is worth-I used soil cement(southern term) which is a mix of sand and portland, a two pound hammer(handle end) which lost about six inches in length by the time I was done, a 10" chop saw, four diamond blades, a garden hose with a on?off nozzle wire tied for a water bath to the saw, and a agri-fab tow behind/dumping cart.
I sat down one night after it was all over and figured that with all the sand(I forget how many yards), portland, pavers, multiple pickups of each one for fit and cut, that I was well over the million pound mark. "I WILL PAVE NO MORE FOREVER"
Pavers were purchased from Paver Systems out of orlando, fl. and trucked to Deland. Those picture Boleyz has look identical-Got the imperfect ones with random color and after worrying about the color match for about an hour, said the heck with it and just laid them-looked beautiful. Had a maintenance guy from the city come visit and work with me for a day to see how it was done-if you ever wind up in Deland, Florida ther are two side streets off Main in downtown that I sorta supervised on-BRIEFLY.
Yes-it hurts at times, although it has been about three years now and I am not as beat up as I was when I left there. Time heals.....
Looks to me you have done a beautiful job,Boleyz. I had three full concrete trucks on my hand laid pavers, plus bobcats twisting around removing fallen giant oaks and the pavers never moved. Rent the whacker-save your back/knees. The compressive strength of those pavers is WAAAAy up there-I used to know, but seem to have blocked it out!!!! Luck-Dan

Oh yes-if you have an edge of pavers on a drive, etc. that gives you trouble, generally from people backing over and OFF the pavers, lay two parallel lengths of rebar-1/2" or better in diameter under the outer edge course, about 4" or so apart. Rebar-not old iron pipe-the pattern in the rebar "grabs" the underside of the paver and the length lends stability to the outboard course. Guy I worked for was a rummy and continually backed his Cadimobarge off the driveway and into the edge of the woods, messing up the outboard edge. Rebar solved that problem nicely.