New home construction?

TNHermit · #21 11/11/06, 10:35 PM

What are you going to use for joist. your layout will be different if you use TJI (truss Joist) or 2x. If you use 2x you may need to check code for overlap. And remember that one layout will have to be set back 1-1/2 on one side to allow for the overlap. If you use TJI you may be able to go 19.2 on center and they go in WAY faster

CatsPaw · #22 11/12/06, 07:12 AM

So far, I'd say advice is still good..... plus a couple more things. I figure you can get the "normal" info from a book. I'm trying to think of the "tricks" they never tell you about.

10 days and 10 days is not an unreasonable projection. I'd say you have two strategies there. You could buy the first floor package for the first 10 days. Then buy the rest for the second. That way the second package doesn't risk weather depending on when you'll start this (has it ever rained in AZ.?) It also avoids security issues with having a bunch of merch. laying around waiting for you to come back to finish off the second floor. But, you risk not having it if you slam up the first floor in 4 or 5 days.

Second strategy... get it all at once, take the risks. But be sure to cover stuff with tarps if rain is a possibility. Don't worry about the framing lumber so much as the sheet goods. Stuff getting wet is a fact of life and it won't hurt per se. But the sheet goods will absorb it and swell. This makes it really hard to deal with your H-clips when decking the roof or get a nice flat floor at the edges.

Also two strategies on black paper. We still do, but it will be a personal choice. No matter what they say...black paper DOES absorb moisture...maybe not much, but it is an arguement for not using it. 15# or 30#. The real reason we use 30# is because it doesn't blow off as easy as the thinner 15# (we use staples assuming the roofer will get to it pretty quick.) I'm still hesitant about using cap nails. It depends on the type of roofing. Cap nails WILL telegraph through 3-tab shingles. Caps nails also lock your black paper down very well. Yer choice.

For your CAD brain, treated lumber is NOT the same size as standard lumber. The treatment always causes it to swell. I've used stuff that was almost a 1/4" wider than a regular 2 x 4. Don't think this would affect you but...just fyi.

After you've figured up you materials package, throw in at least 60 or 70 extra 2 x 4 x 16's. You'll need them for bracing the walls. You can cull the bad ones and use straight ones for walls without using up any reserve (since the bad ones can always be used for the bracing.) You'll need them for lateral bracing on the trusses, truss blocks, truss bracing before the decking goes on, stiff backs for gables ends, etc. Believe me, you'll need them. On a two story, I would not hestitate to order an extra 100.

When you're ready to set the plates for the first floor, make sure you set them straight and square. Do all you cross measuring and parallel measuring again and set them like they were in your CAD. That way when you set your floor and subsequently the walls, you can just follow along. Some people just think the foundation is perfect 'cause that's the way they formed it and just follow the concrete. They never are.

Pull your measurements from the same place and same direction at every stage. Pick one corner to be your standard and pull everything from that

Stack your joists and trusses on your studs, from bottom to top( this goes for interior walls, also.) I'm surprised at how many people don't bother doing this. (I know every other truss doesn't stack but that's o.k.)

uh...this is really long. sorry. This is my thing and I tend to take it to a real technical level. I think maybe it's sunday morning and I'm just rambling. can't tell you enough, so, I'll just leave it.

TNHermit · #23 11/12/06, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatsPaw

So far, I'd say advice is still good..... plus a couple more things. I figure you can get the "normal" info from a book. I'm trying to think of the "tricks" they never tell you about.

10 days and 10 days is not an unreasonable projection. I'd say you have two strategies there. You could buy the first floor package for the first 10 days. Then buy the rest for the second. That way the second package doesn't risk weather depending on when you'll start this (has it ever rained in AZ.?) It also avoids security issues with having a bunch of merch. laying around waiting for you to come back to finish off the second floor. But, you risk not having it if you slam up the first floor in 4 or 5 days.

Second strategy... get it all at once, take the risks. But be sure to cover stuff with tarps if rain is a possibility. Don't worry about the framing lumber so much as the sheet goods. Stuff getting wet is a fact of life and it won't hurt per se. But the sheet goods will absorb it and swell. This makes it really hard to deal with your H-clips when decking the roof or get a nice flat floor at the edges.

Also two strategies on black paper. We still do, but it will be a personal choice. No matter what they say...black paper DOES absorb moisture...maybe not much, but it is an arguement for not using it. 15# or 30#. The real reason we use 30# is because it doesn't blow off as easy as the thinner 15# (we use staples assuming the roofer will get to it pretty quick.) I'm still hesitant about using cap nails. It depends on the type of roofing. Cap nails WILL telegraph through 3-tab shingles. Caps nails also lock your black paper down very well. Yer choice.

For your CAD brain, treated lumber is NOT the same size as standard lumber. The treatment always causes it to swell. I've used stuff that was almost a 1/4" wider than a regular 2 x 4. Don't think this would affect you but...just fyi.

After you've figured up you materials package, throw in at least 60 or 70 extra 2 x 4 x 16's. You'll need them for bracing the walls. You can cull the bad ones and use straight ones for walls without using up any reserve (since the bad ones can always be used for the bracing.) You'll need them for lateral bracing on the trusses, truss blocks, truss bracing before the decking goes on, stiff backs for gables ends, etc. Believe me, you'll need them. On a two story, I would not hestitate to order an extra 100.

When you're ready to set the plates for the first floor, make sure you set them straight and square. Do all you cross measuring and parallel measuring again and set them like they were in your CAD. That way when you set your floor and subsequently the walls, you can just follow along. Some people just think the foundation is perfect 'cause that's the way they formed it and just follow the concrete. They never are.

Pull your measurements from the same place and same direction at every stage. Pick one corner to be your standard and pull everything from that

Stack your joists and trusses on your studs, from bottom to top( this goes for interior walls, also.) I'm surprised at how many people don't bother doing this. (I know every other truss doesn't stack but that's o.k.)

uh...this is really long. sorry. This is my thing and I tend to take it to a real technical level. I think maybe it's sunday morning and I'm just rambling. can't tell you enough, so, I'll just leave it.

I think this is all good advice. there is a lot of things to remeber !!

fantasymaker · #24 11/12/06, 08:47 AM

One thing that you might not know .
YOU CAN RETURN LUMBER and other stuff too buy plenty and take whats left back.
Come to think of it I had a buddy that handled security that way. He left home on the way to the woods with an empty truck stopped at the store nearest his cabin on friday afternoon and returned the excess monday morning.
He paid more to get it locally but lumber is cheep and had the added benifit that by the time he was done he was a "local" and an accepted member of the community.

About your building plans.It soundslike you are thinking of buildinga crawel space? Why bother?dig a bit deeper add a tiny bit more concrete and have a basement or pour a slab and save the cost of the wooden floor.
Not a clue as to what type of codes you have to deal with but two things to think about even if there are no codes where you build the banks ferquently have thier own standards you might want to inquire about that.
I built in a no code area but the very best advice I got was in reading a book that conversationally explained codes Get something like that it will give you a ton of good info.

stanb999 · #25 11/12/06, 09:14 AM

1 Don't build in the rain or snow. It not only causes work to slow or become dangerous. But will harm your plywood or OSB.

2 Just because you can draw it doesn't mean you can build it. Thirty foot valted ceilings.

3 If you figure 10 days it will take 20..... Maybe 25.

4 Have the tools/hardware already. Taking that trip to the store just kills the day.

5 Measure three times.... Twice before you cut. Once more before you nail (those nail gun nails have glue on them).

6 Attempt to cut everything to the perfect size. No it's not ok if it's a tiny bit long or short.

7 Contractors ALWAYS start late and finish after you expect.

8 Involve the code official. They can be a great asset. (If they seem to know what they are doing).

9 The guy at the building supply really doesn't know anything about building. He's a stock boy.

10 most important........Enjoy your self.

Macybaby · #26 11/12/06, 12:32 PM

sounds like you will be doing similar to what my husband and I did. Ours was only an addition, but with only minimal occasional help from our adult son, one determined man and woman have done quite a bit.

We did hire someone to dig the hole, had the cement come premixed (with a pump truck for the walls) and hired the electric company to come and re-run the main service underground (we did the hookup).

If you want some encouragement, here is my photo album of our project. Go to the other albums to look at different parts of the project.

The main life saver we have are nail guns (both air and impulse). Do yourself (and your fingers) a favor and get yourself decent tools. Makes a world of difference in getting things done.

We did our walls like you mentioned. Built them in sections, and then tied them all together with a top cap. We nailed brace boards on the sections to keep them square as we lifted them, and took them off when we sheathed.

photos of our addition

Cathy

TNHermit · #27 11/12/06, 01:01 PM

I was thinking (dangerous that) You have gotten a lot of good advice. Most of it from good professionals. Some things they do so automatically that they don't eve remember it. I think if you were to catalog it and keep your own diary. You would have the makings of a good book.. Who knows you may be able to pay for the house out of the profits. Just a thought LOL

PyroDon · #28 11/12/06, 01:05 PM

I would never put comp shingles over bare wood , Ive had to replace too many houses that didnt use tar paper and the decking molded and rotted .
The reason being that water vapor will be draw under the shilnges every evening when temps drop . this moisture condenses under the shingles providing a great place for mold to grow . The purpose of roofing felt is to provide a vapor barrier .
Many shingle warrenties are voided with out the use of felt as well .
The same goes for house wrap under siding .
Now if your putting wood shingles on never put them over plywood or wafer but only on skip sheeted roofs they will rot from the bottom up if they cant dry out properly .

YoungOne · #29 11/12/06, 02:21 PM

WOW!! I am getting alot of good advise. Apreciate all of it, and will be cataloging it to use as reference. As far as weather goes I will be building in Late Spring N.AZ and although the snow and rain outlook are pretty slim wind will be my issue. As I said above will be checking in with the Building and inspection department. See about them codes. If you think of something that will help, please post away!!!!

spam4einstein · #30 11/12/06, 03:05 PM

Just 2 things to re-highlight. One, buy a off road man lift or bucket truck and re-sell when done. It will speed you up so much and will make it safer. You should be able to get close to what you paid for it...maybe more....maybe less. Older bucket trucks are cheep. And buy everything you can imagine you may need and then some....make lots of list and check them twice. Better to return unused stuff than have to make a trip to town.

Get a copy of Do It Yourself Housebuilding by Geroge Nash. You will find better info in a book than scatered pieces on the net.

TNHermit · #31 11/12/06, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PyroDon

I would never put comp shingles over bare wood , Ive had to replace too many houses that didnt use tar paper and the decking molded and rotted .
The reason being that water vapor will be draw under the shilnges every evening when temps drop . this moisture condenses under the shingles providing a great place for mold to grow . The purpose of roofing felt is to provide a vapor barrier .
Many shingle warrenties are voided with out the use of felt as well .
The same goes for house wrap under siding .

Now if your putting wood shingles on never put them over plywood or wafer but only on skip sheeted roofs they will rot from the bottom up if they cant dry out properly .

If the roofs rotted then it was a ventilation problem not the tar paper. A properly vented cold roof won't produce condensation. And tar paper is not considered a vapor barrier. Although some people still use it.hence TYVEK and the like. It makes no sense since the basic composition of shingles and tar paper up until recently was the same. Once the impregnation breaks down its just a bunch of rags. The warranties are that way so they continue selling tar paper. I was told that to my face by Rep from GAF or Manville. Ive probably tore as many roofs with tar paper on them. But it was because there was improper ventilation in the attic space poorly laid shingles, bad valley flashing or ice dams

CatsPaw · #32 11/12/06, 04:36 PM

I guess I'll have to take a little exception to stan's #2 and #6.

#2 Architects do that all the time. And I'm the poor schmuck that has to figure it out for them.

#6 Certainly strive for accuracy. But, wood moves. You can't get away from it. Accuracy is required in many places and it isn't required in many others. I was all accurate and stuff when I first started and the pros broke me of that real quick.

e.g. If you're plating an interior wall over an exterior wall and it's a 1/4" or even 1/2" short, nail it. Won't make a difference. Wouldn't waste wood cutting a new one. If it's a 1/4" long then it can be a problem.

e.g. Jacks in doors should be accurate. Don't make yourself pound them in. They'll jack the header after a couple of months and crack the dry wall. Too loose and the header will settle with the same result. But at least you can glue a shim in the space to make it snug.

Knowing when to be accurate is a matter of experience and knowing how it will affect the structure. If a truss is nailed a 1/4" out of place on layout, will the house fall down....no....but it isn't particularly hard to get it right either.

If you just use some forethought and care you'll do fine. There is a science to it, but it's not rocket science.

Aintlifegrand · #33 11/13/06, 09:04 AM

I would definitely build the walls in place. The moving and lifting would be a real problem unless you have heavy equipment etc. I see you are in Arizona so I don't think you are that worried about weather, so I was wondering why you wanted to build the walls at another location and then have to move them? Depending on size, you can build several walls in a weekend. MY DH and three kids built our house on site. We built and lifted all exterior walls on site. One thing we did was build the wall on the floor ( some of ours were 36 feet), we lifted in place, made sure they were straight with levels and then braced. We sheathed them after they were lifted and secureed in place. We managed to get all the exterior walls of the first floor in two weekends and it took one more to sheath. My brother puts some essential sheathing up, lifts the wall and then puts the remaining sheets. His crew is 14- 10 in age so, he needs to make it light as possible. So far, we have built our house, he has built his with just a bunch of "girls and kids" as he often likes to tease. You can do it, just plan well.

Aintlifegrand · #34 11/13/06, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spam4einstein

Just 2 things to re-highlight. One, buy a off road man lift or bucket truck and re-sell when done. It will speed you up so much and will make it safer. You should be able to get close to what you paid for it...maybe more....maybe less. Older bucket trucks are cheep. And buy everything you can imagine you may need and then some....make lots of list and check them twice. Better to return unused stuff than have to make a trip to town.

Get a copy of Do It Yourself Housebuilding by Geroge Nash. You will find better info in a book than scatered pieces on the net.

Excellent book.

YoungOne · #35 11/13/06, 09:21 AM

Thanks, keep them coming.