Options for dealing with trespassers?

I don't believe in allowing an armed trespassing hunter, or anyone else, to leave my property with any projectile weapon of any configuration. It is confiscated and they are escorted off. They can threaten all they like, but if they come back, they would face the consequences of that action.

I am thankful to have a gate at the mouth of the private road I share with two other neighbors and having my own gates at the mouth of my driveway. If someone comes through two sets of gates to cause problems, they are not likely going to be the typical local problem maker and I have yet to have one of those.

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I would challenge anyone here to think of a question upon which we once had a scientific answer, however inadequate, but for which now the best answer is a religious one. – Sam Harris

oh oh oh.... I forgot. they need sewage service. they want public sewage.

how do you get it paid for?

PUSH the system on everyone whos septic systems ahve been working fine for 300 yrs.

no push is a wrong term.. they made is a law, we HAVE to tap into their system and their reason; if everyone doesnt tap in, we cant afford to provide it to people who need it most.

read that, and then go dust off your USSR flag.

so now, po country people who had good sound septic systems NOW have to pay 60+ bucks a month [becuse the system doesnt have meters, just a flat fee] and oh wait, yo tap into it, youll have to pay 3k... plus pay for your own pipes... inspectors... retrofitting...

I'm instantly 20k in debt... where I had NO DEBT. none.
I'm one of a few 1000. or maybe more.
cant really tell, they throw up a housing plan overnight here.

you want public sewage for your gated community or housing plan???
YOU PAY FOR IT. Dont come mug me to pay for your sewage service.
I poop in a tank, the big tank digests the poop and makes nice clean leach water.
I have a sewage treatment plant, I dont want to use yours.
i sure as F dont wanna pay for the privilage.

dont even think about touching my water well.

they are crying about that too... private wells drag down the water table and lower municiple public well production.

TOUGH! go buy a tanker of water and PAY FOR IT. you wanted the village you got it..now pay up

get yer filthy paws off me you ---- dirty yuppie.

we need to define what we mean here by 'gated commmunity'

Mike in Ohio,

What I think I would do if I was in my situation and nobody's home or you're not able to give me permission to get my dog even though the dog is still on your property (I'm just speculating here, ok?), I would call up the sheriff and have him escort me on to the property to get the said dog however if the dog is working a feral hog..you cannot leave a dog with a feral hog..that is suidicidal...basically a feral hog is called a poor man's grizzly for a reason. A coon..well most of them run up trees. Hogs are another different story altogether. Too dangerous to just leave a dog there with a hog..besides the hog might just decide to try to gore you if it was on your property. Coons can wait..hogs are a bit different. Just my thoughts. IF I know my dog isn't the rough-in-your-face type of cur and a loose bay dog, I would probably go to the front door with the sheriff. That's in Texas..where you live might have different rules.

Fantasymaker,

I've posted your question on the hog hunting boards and it'll take a while to get answers.

__________________
Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

Ted ...so very cool.
comfortably numb why is it I get the impression you are neither?

Think about what you are saying Ted.

The sheriff doesn't have the legal right to go onto posted private property under the circumstances either. Unless the Sheriff has a warrant or has evidence of a criminal act, they are just as obligated under the law to respect no trespassing signs as you or anyone else.

I just can't figure out why you are so bound and determined to make your self imposed problem (hypothetical or otherwise) something other people have to have imposed on them. You persist in the belief that you have some right that is more important than the right of other people to not have you on their property.

I think pancho called it about right. If you don't have permission to go on posted property then you should wait till your dog(s) exit the property to try to retrieve them. It may be an inconvenience to you but why should your convenience take precedence over other peoples choices regarding their property?

And again, I feel compelled to point out that my position is based on the premise that a property owner has the right to make decisions about their property other than choices (such as polluting) that abuse neighboring property owners by damaging their property.


If someone wants to say yes to you, more power to them. If they choose to say no or they have expressed their intent by posting their property then you should respect that.

I have a feeling our sheriffs department would give you some pretty quizzical looks if you asked them to come on to posted property help you recover dogs that you intentionally set loose to roam...hunting or otherwise.

Mike

Why do they have a gate on your property? why did you allow it when they are so rude to you?

[QUOTE=TedH71]Mike in Ohio,

What I think I would do if I was in my situation and nobody's home or you're not able to give me permission to get my dog even though the dog is still on your property (I'm just speculating here, ok?), I would call up the sheriff and have him escort me on to the property to get the said dog however if the dog is working a feral hog..you cannot leave a dog with a feral hog..that is suidicidal...basically a feral hog is called a poor man's grizzly for a reason. A coon..well most of them run up trees. Hogs are another different story altogether. Too dangerous to just leave a dog there with a hog..besides the hog might just decide to try to gore you if it was on your property. Coons can wait..hogs are a bit different. Just my thoughts. IF I know my dog isn't the rough-in-your-face type of cur and a loose bay dog, I would probably go to the front door with the sheriff. That's in Texas..where you live might have different rules.


A catch dog is different than a scent hound. A catch dog is not let loose until the animal (hog) is bayed. If it is bayed it is easy to ask the property owner for permission to come onto the property. If it is a scent hound it will n ot get hurt as its job is only to follow and bay the animal (hog). If you decide to relaese a catch dog on property that is posted you deserve to loose the dog as you care little for the dog or the property ownner.

I hadn't thought about that legalibility but if my dog is on your property, wouldn't there be a cause to have the sheriff accompany me? There is a case in which the sheriff was called in Texas and he gave the people who shot the dog in front of the boy a huge fine/ticket and the guy who shot the dog had to do time in jail according to Texas laws. As it is, that hasn't happened to me so far *knock wood* but suppose it was a child wandering lost....and you said NOT ON MY PROPERTY! NOT ALLOWED! You would be considered a suspect right then. No insults intended here...just a friendly discussion. I'm signing off bec I'm tired and not feeling good. Have a good night.

p.s. Pacho, a good hog dog sometimes has to fight physically with a hog and sometimes they're so tough they try to stop the hog by catching it and sometimes letting go..they're called gritty for a reason. Catch dogs usually walk or ride with the hog hunter until it's time to let them go to work simply because pits, american bulldogs, etc aren't necessarily good at endurance running and need to conserve their energy for the real dangerous work at hand. Many times those bay dogs DO get cut up and killed in line of duty. I know a few friends who have gone thru 10-20 dogs in one year. One friend in South Texas lost over 40 dogs in 1 year simply because he was stupid enough not to keep cut collars on his dogs and I know one who lost 25 dogs because the rough terrain kept the dogs from being able to stop the hog right away. Many hog hunters keep 15-100 dogs (not kidding..not too many hog hunters have this many but I know 2 who do and they're selling out now and getting old). Average number of bay dogs tend to be 20. That includes puppies and dogs in training and the strike (experienced) dogs. Catch dogs..well maybe 2-4.

__________________
Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

Thats a lot of dogs for a hog, I have some friends that hog hunt, and they only use about 6 bay dogs (curs)and one catch dog (Pit Bull)

Randy another good way to keep the vehicals off your land, is just fence it.

Well Ted,

First thing is that you shouldn't be hunting hogs or deer with children. In some places that might be considered child abuse. Besides, the children have a hard time keeping up and they just don't do a very good job of baying.

The fact that a property owner says no does not automatically make them a suspect and does not give probable cause to enter a property. You stated lost child not kidnapped child.... so what exactly would the property owner be suspected of doing? You may think unkind thoughts towards them but that is a different issue.

If it truly were a lost child then there are two cases:

1) There is probable cause (legal definition) to believe that the child is on the property. In that case the LEOs would probably be justified in going on the property regardless of the property owners wishes. If need be they could probably get a court order.

2) There is no probable cause to believe the child is on the property. In this case they might try to get a court order if the property owner says no but any judge that gives such an order would be out of line legally.

You are really stretching to try to justify your going on other peoples property. Are you really trying to claim that a lost child is the same as your dogs that you intentionally set to running?

Mike

That is the way all the hog dog people I know do. Anymore dogs and you will loose dogs because they get in each others way. Just use the minimum number to get the job done.
Those who loose that many bay dogs do not know the difference in bay dogs and catch dogs.

Keep in mind, different people hunt differently in different areas and what works for them might not work at where I hunt. In some areas such as Hawaii or certain parts of Texas and Louisiana where hogs have been dogged by the dogs for so long they disappear at the sound of a bark and fight really hard. Hounds aren't good for fighting the hog..they're wusses unless they come from certain bloodlines known for courage..for example Cameron bloodline in the blue tick hound, Weems and Star in the plott...I'm not too sure about the walkers, black and tans, etc, which is why the vast majority of people hunt with curs. I don't hunt with that many dogs myself but know alot of people that do. I personally prefer to hunt with 2 to 3 dogs and up to 2 catch dogs. If you own pit bulls then you will more than likely have 2 because pits don't often get bigger than 55 lbs unless they've been crossed with mastiff way back. I prefer american bulldogs and dogos but have not hunted with dogos but know people who do and they say dogos are the only catch dog that can constiently hunt and catch..problem is you have to run bay dogs with them because they are very silent and catch and often can die while fighting with the hog becuase the hog hunter didn't hear the dog. What I was trying to say is that many areas in the US have very bad terrain and that does shorten a dog's life and in some areas hogs are pure russian blood and those fight real hard compared to your regular rooters.

When I was talking about children being lost, I wasn't talking about taking kids hunting with me..that was a completely different issue. My point is that it seems some people are so intent in not letting other people on their property that it could concievably cause that person problems in the future. I'm tired of talking the same thing over and over so that's the last I'll talk about this. Come to think of it, I do know many hunters who do take their children hunting with them..youngest I know of was 5 years old but his dad makes sure he stays near a tree so he can climb and that kid is real quick. The average age of kids that start hog hunting with their dad is usually 8 or 9. In my neck of the woods (East Texas) that's not necessarily unheard of. I also know of kids that age who were driving trucks while their kinfolks were pitching hay to the cattle. In Texas, kids are allowed in bars as long as their legal guardians are with them to supervise them which is stupid, IMHO, but I've seen kids at bars. Some bar owners don't allow kids but in the rural areas they're allowed. Kids are allowed to go squirrel hunting,coon hunting as young as 8 as well. We don't see this as anything special but in the more urban areas, they are horrified if they find out that your kids are doing that and sometimes on their own..I wouldn't allow my kids on their own hog hunting until they're maybe 13 or 14 but for coon hunting probably young as 12 but I would want to be there to be part of the fun as well so don't think that'll happen!

__________________
Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

Well we bough and paid for our land so we would have a place to hunt and not have to beg people to hunt on thier land. In WV all private land is considered to be posted as you must have written permission to be on it. It is a shame when my wife gets up at 4 am and goes to her fav spot only to find some one else there. Should they be there? H*** no because it is not thier land. I don't question a dog or cyote {sp} and ask them what they are doing on my property, I either use the 44 mag or the 30-30. We have goats that are out during the day and I will protect them. We really don't have a problem with dog hunters here as the only thing you can use dogs for is rabbits, but I would take the same approach if dog hunting was allowed. Now before anyone jumps on me, 3 yrs ago we could look out our kitchen window in the morning or evening and watch sometimes as many as 10 to 12 deer playing. Now with wild dogs cyotes and such we are lucky to see 1 or 2 deer a week. Folks that was my food the dogs and cyotes got. Just wish they tasted like chicken. Tamsam

TedH71, you still won't directly answer my question. Why do you feel that you are so important that you get to impose yourself on other people. That is the bottom line. Whether a persons attitude brings them dislike by their neighbors or strangers is their business and not yours. If they are on their own property minding their own business, that is their choice.

Let's cut to the chase. You are seeking to impose yourself on others out of selfish self interest. You don't really seem to care that someone else owns that property and gets to make decisions about it....other than it interferes with what you want to do.

How about you post your address in the forum and that way any time any random person feels like coming to your place any time of the day or night can do so and do whatever they choose on your place? Now you don't get to decide what they can and can't do, that's their choice? How would you like them apples...probably not so much.

So what exactly is the difference between that and you trying to figure out how you can weasel your way around some other property owners wishes and intent?

As far as children and hunting, if you bring a young child into the field then YOUR first obligation is to the child. Not the hunt and not your dogs. I truly do not understand someone who takes a young child into the field on a hunt and "misplaces them". Bring along an extra adult to watch the child. How simple is that? If you can't then don't bring the child with until they are older.

Mike

I also have a question for Ted:

Who, in your opinion, "owns" game?
Do you have a right to a hog, no matter where it runs, just because
you saw it first?
When game steps onto my land, I consider it MINE as long as it's on my property. MINE to shoot, MINE to protect.
It seems to me, if you or your dog push it to another hunter or to
preserve land where the owner is protecting wildlife, you had an unsuccessful hunt. Game over.
You really seem to believe that the whole world is your hunting ground.


Part of the joy of land ownship for my dh has been having choices about
how he will "manage" the wildlife. For instance, this year, no does will be shot on our land because of (whatever reason he has determined.) Or no bucks smaller than X.
We can't protect the does off our land, but on our "sanctuary", we make the decisions.

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Hut on the Hill Farm
http://www.hutonthehill.org

Randy areyou still here? What is the situation with your fencing?

I have a question to ask the dog hunters. If you dog chases a hog, bear , deer, or any other game onto federal land, do you go charging in with your gun to retrieve your dog, game, or what ever? In NC there has been many brought to court on fereral charges because they were caught on federal land with a loaded weapon. You are charged by the feds for dui for driving while drinking on the Blue Ridge Parkway. I don't know about other states but maybe some else does. Again I consider my land to be as important as the federal land. Tamsam

Here in Mississippi unless it is a management area that prohibits Dog hunting for deer. You can legaly hunt deer with dogs on federal land.

Tamsam, in Texas there are some federal lands that you can hunt..actually most of them you CAN hunt but not with dogs. I only know of two that allow dogs on hogs..one allows it part of the year while the other one allows it year round but in both places you do have to inform the wildlife management personnel that you're hunting dogs and you DO have to have a hunting license. I always carry a hunting license in the back pocket just in case a game warden stops me even though you do not need a hunting license to hunt hogs in Texas because they're considered pests like rats are.

Minnikin and Mike in Ohio, you do not know me. I do not trepass if I can't help it and I've not run into any scenarios that I've been talking about *knock on wood* simply because I DO ask permission way before the hunt is started and I also sometimes hunt on hunting club properties with their permission and in East Texas those properties are huge because sometimes they lease land from the timber companies and the timber companies want the hogs gone because they damage trees in rubbing their tusks and such. I was SIMPLY posting scenarios! What if this and that...helps you realize that there is a different view point out there. I, however, do know friends who have had to trepass...in most cases, it ended up good because my friends were respectful and sometimes attempted to contact the owners...but in my neck of the woods, vast majority of the property are owned by timber companies who do not care as long as you get rid of the hogs and not cut timber and not all hunting clubs lease those properties and you can find plenty that are available. I do not impose myself on other people. You ARE thinking that I am when I was simply posting scenarios. I live in the city so, yes, I have to deal with trepassing people who are simply passing by and I've been having an ongoing problem with the neighbor's kids climbing over my fence to get to the toys they've thrown over the fence by accident because some of my girlfriend's dogs will bite and then the kids try to feed the dogs and one has a sensetive stomach and will get sick and I had to take that dog to the vet one time too much. I went to the neighbor and had a long talk with her and the problems seem to be more resolved. I had problems with the other neighbor (immigrants from Mexico) who thought it was ok to throw beer bottles into my yard and it's been resolved since then. My girlfriend's property is really small. We are both trying to move out once I get my college degree and make more money. As for feral animals running onto your property and you consider it yours...I would have to check the Texas laws about that since I've not had that problem..ditto for the Kansas laws. This is my last posting..it's gone too long. Have a good weekend everybody.

__________________
Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett