Options for dealing with trespassers?

Thanks Mike in Ohio


1. Damage to my signs saying no tresspassing- removed and mashed

2. Damage to planted timber which I hope to someday retire upon the proceeds of. Believe me a 800 pound 4 wheeler with a 200 pound man riding it doesnt do any good to 2 year old yellow pines.

People who have nothing worth dying for have nothing worth living for. The safety of my property and my family is worth dying for and these people who are univited guests on my land make all of my family and myself included feel unsafe.

Like I said make it expencive for them to be there and the courts have to have numbers!

Sorry about the thread drift here, but I gotta tell ya this one:
I thought I'd heard it all, but our landlord's father was out here the other day, and he apparently "suggested" that my husband tell any hunters who come here that they're not supposed to be on this land, hunting, because it's leased to someone else.
Unbelievable!
Why does he think it's my husband's job to police his land? We don't even own this house; we RENT. Why on EARTH would anyone even remotely sane think someone would just go inform a batch of hunters that they're not allowed on someone else's property?!
What's that line from "All About Eve": "This beats all records for running, jumping, or standing gall!"

OBVII.......humm because you rent it?

Because we rent a house from him, we're supposed to patrol his neighboring acreage and confront trespassers? LOL, don't think so!

Did I mention the man lives about two miles up the road? I think the most he can hope for is a phone call.

Our landlord's father leased the hunting rights to some folks from Mississippi. We have absolutely NOTHING to do with his land, hunting on his land, or any of that - we don't lease it to hunt.

And with that kind of attitude I am sure you got first-rate service. Considering the vast number of traffic and criminal laws on the books, no one can know them all. I am a police officer, and have been for 23 years. I make it a point to give out sound advice when asked, but admit that at times I run across laws that I have never had to deal with. There are a few truths in law enforcement; the quality of service you get is directly in relation to your attitude and behavior. Also more people have talked their way into jail than anything else.

As far as trespassers, file trespass and vandalism charges on them every time they trespass! Sue them for damages every time they damage your property. Hit them in the pocketbook enough and they'll go play someplace else.

Geary

Mike in Ohio and Randy Rooster,

May I suggest something? Buy a coonhound, spend the time to train the dog to track down said coons, then buy a tracking collar (a MUST with hounds..not necessary with curs unless that bloodline of curs is well known to have a cold nose) and go hunting and see if you can teach the dog not to stray..they are trained to TRACK down the said coon at any COST and when you've got a good coonhound go back and answer our question. If you've not done it then you won't usually understand. If you run curs, you'll seldom run into the problems that hound hunters get because the cur dogs will come back after a short time compared to hounds. Most curs won't hunt coons unless they are bred to do so (usually Kemmer curs (a variety of mountain cur) or mountain curs...some blackmouth curs are bred to tree critters). I am seriously doing research on mountain curs since I do not necessarily like a dog with lots of hair. The funny thing is I've seen coon hounds being sought for at the purchase of $30k! You could've bought that pup for $50. Coonhounds are usually very cheap to purchase. Keep me informed if you do decide to try to go the coonhound route and if your coonhound does track them really fast then enter them in comps and you can start making money. I know of some coonhunters who make $20-50k a year from one dog because that dog is a constient winner.

__________________
Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

there used to be plenty of trespassers around here
that is, until we moved here full time
people know we don't want anyone on the land and our sign does help

one year, no problems

__________________
Don't complain, just do it

No problem Randy. Anyone who knows me or has been on HT for any length of time knows exactly where I stand on this issue.

Apologists for poachers like Wind in Her Hair simply don't accept that private property means just that. She asserts it isn't worth dying to protect your property from armed intruders as if that is a fact. It is only her opinion and a poor one at that.

As far as her invoking Dr. Phil and "Hows that working for ya?", my answer is just fine. WIHH asked the wrong question....it's not simply whether you are willing to die...it's whether you are willing to kill. My answer is real straight forward....an armed person on my property who threatens me will be dealt with accordingly. That's not bravado, that's simply the way it is.

If they don't threaten me and follow instructions then they get a ride compliments of the local game warden or the sheriff. WIHH is just a wee bit confused when she says that armed hunters trespassing isn't a violation of the game laws. I would refer anyone that agrees with her to the Ohio DNR website page that addresses the issue:

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/wildlife/...mission819.htm

But WIHH doesn't really care about what's legal or what's right. She won't admit that in many jurisdictions, trespassing while hunting IS A VIOLATION OF GAME LAWS! In Ohio such trespassing can result in jail, substantial fines, confiscation of anything used in the act of illegal trespass while hunting (that includes the vehicle used to drive to the hunt, your weapon, the dogs, etc.)

She is only interested in what reflects her own personal interests and beliefs. Disagree with her position on things and you are some evil crazy person who can't get along with anyone. She simply can't accept that other people have the right to make decisions about themselves and their property that don't coincide with her beliefs.

I would also point out that her argument about no damage having been done (yet) is a spurious one at best. Why should Randy or anyone else have to wait until an intruder commits damage? That is just silly. Randy isn't going out to other peoples property. He has posted his and expects people to respect that.

One could also make the economic argument that she is incorrect. Hunting rights on our property are worth $1,000 a year or more if we were to choose to lease them. We don't charge those we allow to hunt but if we did, those uninvited hunters are impairing the value of the hunting lease simply by their presence.

WIHH talks about people acting like "grown men" (how sexist to ignore that there are female property owners and hunters). Grown men (and women) respect other peoples property rights, they don't impose themselves on others whether by passive aggressive (I'm going to ignore your no-trespassing signs) or outright aggressive (I'm going to tear them down or threaten you).

Grown men and women ask permission and accept when someone says no. They respect that it is the other persons decision as to whether they may come on private property or not.

WIHH is also incorrect when she talks about "a couple of hotheads standing toe-to-toe arguing over a dog on a neighbors property. " While the other person may be a hothead, to me it is just one of those things that need to be dealt with.

I wouldn't stand toe to toe with a coyote that was bothering stock and I won't stand toe to toe with an armed intruder. If they don't follow directions given at a distance and instead choose to act in an aggressive manner then they are accepting the consequences of their poor choices. If they are carrying more than a shotgun with 3 rounds, a muzzle loader or a bow then they are illegal anyways (I'm excluding other game such as squirrels or groundhog as they would likely have a small caliber rifle). They would be pretty foolish to go up against heavier weapons.

If I have to deal with trespassing hunters I am going to confront them on my terms and with the advantage to me. Fortunately, trespassing hunters has become less of an issue for us over the years. It wasn't that big of an issue fto begin with. After dealing with the first few (the story of how I dealt with "stupid ray" getting around the area helped quite a bit..search the archives) people got the message.

In closing Randy, you are never going to convince some people (like WIHH) that property rights are a right. As far as your specifc problems, you basically have 3 choices (or a combination):

1) submit to whatever others choose to impose on you;
2) contact the local authorities and hope that they will protect your interests;
3) follow the law as far as posting your property and then take steps (strictly within the law) to ensure that others understand that you are serious about your right to privacy.

I would recommend a combination of #2 and #3. Contact the authorities but be prepared to deal with these sorts of problems yourself.

Mike

Ted, you just don't get the point. It doesn't matter how much money you paid for the dogs. It doesn't matter how much money you put into your dogs. It doesn't matter how much you love hunting with dogs.

The bottom line is that you claim a right to use other peoples property regardless of their wishes. In previous postings you have claimed that such trespass is unintentional or accidental yet here you have posted that you recognize that you CANNOT control your dogs.

Your right ends at MY property line.

Mike

Ted I dont think anyone would argue with you that its hard.
BUT thats not their problem its yours.
You have the dogs you should train them.
If you cant train them right then maybe you shouldnt have them.
Yes I know its hard BUT
IT CAN BE DONE
Ive seen it.
If you try to say it cant be done I think you are making a case to prohibit dog hunting.Do you really want that? Sorry but its just not 100 years ago.

Heard of lots of places that have trouble with "hunters" mistakenly shooting horses instead of moose, elk, deer. Kinda hard to defend when the horse doesn't have antlers and the local regulations don't allow taking of anterless animals... But that's why they make those bright orange turn-out sheets that say "HORSE" on them now. Sheesh! The things people have to do these days to protect their property! And don't even get me started on protecting yourself from the LIABILITY of some idjit hurting themselves while trespassing on your property...!

When you can't address the facts then fall back to ad hominum attacks.


You are the person that invoked colonial times. I never claimed to be a member of the Mayflower Society (You just go puzzle that one out while you watch the sun set) although I do attend some meetings.

Now try to follow me here WIHH....in many jurisdictions BOTH cases are illegal and violations of game laws.

Your statement might be considered reasonable except that WE weren't talking about you until you started blathering on about you. If it isn't about me then it isn't about you so why are you posting about you? You do know that it isn't all about you? or maybe not.


As I have pointed out (and in my previous post provided a link), in many jurisdictions your first example is a clear violation of the law. Just because you wish something to be so does not make it a fact.

I apologize for not being able to tell the difference between some peoples sarcasm and their other incorrect (with regard to facts ro law) postings.


Well first things first, I'm not your buddy. Whew doggie....you can't address the law and you can't address the facts so you retreat to blathering on about outlandish and illogical conclusions.

Yep. If you can't discuss the facts and issues then retreat into blathering on about something else. You wouldn't happen to be one of those folks that create those negative political ads would you? You sure do a good job of ignoring facts.

Ah yes, retreat into insults. That means you don't have to address issues such as property rights and the right to privacy. You ignore the fact that folks such as Randy and myself would much prefer not to have to deal with these sorts of issues. Instead, we are forced to deal with those "big bad blue-blooded gun-toting dog running trespassing hunters" that you are so fond of.

And just to point out once more, there wouldn't be any problem at all if people like yourself (I include you in the collective as you are such an ardent supporter of people trespassing on other folks land) were respectful of other peoples property and privacy.

Hope I can get this posted before this thread is shutdown. It's really a shame that supposedly mature adults cannot have a conversation about this subject that impacts many homesteaders...

Anyway, I think Mike really hit the nail on the head with this suggestion. Get the law on your side and you will be miles ahead if/when an incident happens. Be proactive and contact the local law enforcement, game wardens etc. Make it known to these guys that you would be open to allowing responsible hunting on your land if one of their people would be so inclined. Allow them exclusive access to your hunting property and I bet in turn they would ensure that your place is taken care of. Yes, I know there are at times a bad apple in the bunch, but I've found for the most part that if you approach them in a mature professional manner they will respond in kind.

Wayne

Like I said previously, I'm not your buddy. You presume too much just as you presume when you advocate a "right" to impose on others against their wishes on their own property.

You were the one who resorted to insults rather than a discussion of the issues. You were also the one who told me "to go argue with myself".

There is no point in your communicating with me on this issue, privately or otherwise. You have said your piece and said you were not going to spend any more time discussing it. I posted my position on the issue. Anybody can look at the posts and conclude for themselves what makes sense and what doesn't. Either they support property rights and the right of people to be left in peace on their own property or they buy into your assertion that no harm is done if someone disregards the property owners desire not to have random armed individuals wandering onto their property at random times and places.

Your responses to Randy were not intended to assist him to achieve his desired outcome. Your goal was to advance your personal beliefs and agenda with regard to the perceived "rights" of hunters that run dogs.

"Your" hunting ends at the other persons property line unless they give you explicit written permission (at least where I live). If you or your dog running buddies refuse to accept that then you takes your chances and get what you get.

To turn your own question back at you..... are "you" willing to die over the question of running your dogs on someone elses property?

It really is that simple.

You may not like me and you may not like my attitude.....tough! I'm not the one trying to impose myself on you/your property nor am I the one advocating that armed individuals should be able to go on your property against your wishes.

the farmer down the road shot someones deer dog and called the game warden the owner of the dog got 150 dollor fine sold the rest of his dogs

__________________
Don't complain, just do it

Nope, I was polite with him. He got snarky when I calmly showed him the statute.

Waving hello from Kentucky !!

I mostly lurk in the forums but this thread has got me flustered and I admit a little aggravated. My intention is not to hurt anyone's feelings but to give a few if you a different viewpoint-maybe make you think by sharing a different point of view. I am not specifically talking to anyone in this thread just addin my 3 cents I was born and raised in the city and growing up I worked on my uncles farm nearly every weeked so I do not have unrealistic expectations moving so far out into the woods.

We live on 50 acres of mostly rolling woods and have lived here going on 6 years now. We have been battling trespassers, poachers, thieves, 4wheelers since day 1 !!!

Those who kill beautiful deer leave the bodies and take the heads...

those who toss beer cans, bottles, cig butts and mt packs, food wrappers and other garbage any where they want...

those who start fires intentional or not with no concern of weather conditions- not caring if the wind carries the fire ...

those who damage gorgeous old trees by nailing up tree stands or
who attempt to cut down any tree they wish for fire wood...

those who trample on S I G N E D newly planted seedlings and delicate tree saplings and dont give a darn...

those who ride 4wheelers carelessly, especially after it rains - tearing up and rutting the land, not to mention tearing up paths we have cleared by HAND and making paths in natural areas where there was no path.

They go about driving on or trudging through newly planted garden beds, killing transplants and newly planted seeds not to mention how they terrify our critters - { we have taken in several feral cats, I saw a man on a 4wheeler swerve and try to deliberately run over a Momma cat while she was nursing}

I went to the sheriff's office several times the first 2 years and received no help or even advice.
The only thing they said was to make sure your NT signs are up.

They have been pulling down our 'no trespassing/ no hunting signs and tearing off the legal boundary tags/flags for over 6 years.
Yes, I myself, saw one of them riding along our boundary-line on his 4wheeler tearing off the boundary flags He flipped me off and cussed me when I hollered for him to stop-

Do you know how much it costs to keep replacing sign after sign after sign ?
Do you know how many signs it takes for a boundary of 50 acres ?
I have placed both the plastic ones and the metal ones. We are experimenting with marking trees with paint but the sheriff said we have to have actual SIGNS.

I do not believe what I am reading. The naive and unrealistic beliefs that we can all just choose to get along...
No Hunting means NO HUNTING
No Trespassing means NO TRESPASSING
Why is that so controversial. I am a custodian of the land, by purchasing it I have taken on a great responsibility. Physically and Financially.

I have tried everything possible to be a good neighbor, taking over baked goods and even after the way I have been treated -continue to wave, smile and speak as a good neighbor does. We have tried to reason with 'neighbors' who are a big part of the trespassers. Their sense of entitlement shocks and saddens me, they believe as many others do here-that no one can tell them they can not go or do whatever they want any where they want.
I have been cussed, flipped off, shot towards - not shot at, threatened with 'burning down the place'. You name it.

Trespassers either,
do not understand the difference between right and wrong
or
simply do not care.

We dearly love the woods and find joy at discovering small patches of wild ginger, unidentified blooming weeds, yuccas, may apple colonies, lycopodium, gorgeous wild ferns, and a multitude of other native plants and weeds including native butterfly weeds and wild iris, hydrangea, etc...
We love the land and chose to live here attempting to grow our own food and truly enjoy the land and we appreciate the land and its wildlife- we are not whacko treehuggers- we have sacrificed soooooo much to be able to live out here in the middle of nowhere, we continue to make daily sacrifices and 'they' have no right to come on our place disrespect and destroy and take- take- take.

When finances permit we are wanting to get a few chickens, a sheep or 2, maybe a milk cow. We are homesteaders, trying to protect our home-
That -----
is not a control issue it is just what's right.

I almost forgot, sorry I got a little off track, we went to the sheriff's office after all of the above and do you know what I was told ?

this is a direct quote from the sheriff:
"I dont know what to tell ya"



Any ways, maybe those who dont see what harm a few hunters or a couple of trespassers on 4wheelers can do - may see things in a different way now. There are many specimens of native plants that are extremely rare and can be destroyed with one dog trampling or one pass of a 4wheeler.......

Hey Mike, ya got any livestock? They ever get out? According to your line of "reasoning" (yeah, I know that word is a strech in this case), any property owner can shot it if it sets foot on their property.

Shooting or harming animals because of the actions/mistakes of their humans is cruel, pointless, and won't change the mind of the hunter. If you see the dog on your land, or someone illegally parked, atv, truck or whatever, call the game warden. A hunter may fear the game warden more than the police.

I'll also wager that 10 times out of 10 it is a MAN doing the tresspassing, not a woman. :0