raw milk sales in Mich BUSTED

the law the law the law the law....... Americans are not very smart when it comes to voting for candidates that will not serve special interest groups. We just can't seem to see through the lure of the "family value" conservatives. It becomes more important to vote against a moral issue (like abortion or gay rights) than be concerned with our own ultimate freedoms. It will take a total loss of freedom to wake up the voters. By then it may be too late.

We got a call from the Chicago chapter of Weston A Price when this coop went down asking if we could supply their coop with raw milk, delivering it to hundreds of customers in the Chicagoland area.

We told them 'No' - raw milk sales are legal in IL and we aim to keep it that way. We were not going to jepordize our small customer base because folks in Chicago wanted us to break the raw milk laws and deliver our milk. I'm sure Paul would be more thn happy to buy more cows BUT we would not coop the milk. The Chicago customers would have to abide by the current raw milk laws and come out to the farm to buy it, bringing their own containers and pouring it from our container into theirs

(DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR RAW MILK SALES ON OUR FARM, JUST A POST ABOUT THE IL REGS CONCERNING RAW MILK SALES)

Unpasteurized apple cider is legal for sale at the farm in IL. At farmer's markets, you cannot cut fruit or vegetables UNLESS you have sinks set up.

Get involved with the Weston A Price foundation, contact your state & county officials. The USDA is already wanting us to tag our livestock and has plans for tagging our fruits and veggies.

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when I hear something like this, or that people can't live in a barn, or you can't have a certain type of toilet... I almost always think of the movie Shadrach. I can almost hear Harvey Keitel's voice ranting about his rights in my head.

http://imdb.com/title/tt0144604/

If you haven't seen it and you do, I think you will find the same thing will happen to you.

edit: I re-read this and it looks like I think people shouldn't have rights and it came out completely opposite of what I meant. I agree with Harvey in this movie.

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Our website promoting the use of Missouri Herbs. www.MissouriHerbs.com

Can you sell it as something other than cider for human consumption? Maybe label it as "cider hair rinse" or some such thing? I'd buy it with that label as long as the label assures me that it's 100% pure cider with no additives and has not been messed with in any way, and I know that you drink it yourself. Is there a law against drinking hair rinses? Have to be really careful what you say... a stranger might have handcuffs in their pocket. Never thought I'd live to see the day when they track down people for wanting to grow, buy, or sell natural food. We are going to have to form an underground system and risk being fined or ending up in jail for eating healthy food instead of the garbage the government wants to shove at us. I've already put in my order for a thousand pounds of spelt next year. If it's illegal next year, I'll meet the guy on a dirt road and smuggle my food home.

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The way it was "structured?" Bull feathers IMHO..I don't care if the folks were "paying" a penny a gallon for the milk. Last time I looked, a person has the RIGHT to sell his product at whatever price he chooses. If I wish to sit here and knit sweaters and sell each one for a dollar a piece simply because I FEEL like doing so, who is the government to tell me that I cannot DO that? As long as I'm not trying to take a tax loss break on it, it's none of their business. Maybe I'm just a person who wants to see poor folks be able to afford nice quality sweaters.

The comparison between raw milk and spinach is an excellent one. Does ANYBODY think for a nanosecond that if the situation were reversed that every single raw milk dairy in the USA would have been shut down immediately?

We certainly do have the government that we deserve. A mere handful of folks have been volunteering their time and effort into fighting these issues. WHEN and IF everyone else wakes up and takes action, things WILL change..until that happens, this ball will keep rolling right over us all.

"Right now, cow-sharing arrangements of the type used by Family Farms Cooperative aren't disallowed, but they aren't specifically permitted under law, so they fall into kind of a gray area that allows the MDA to crack down when it sees fit."

http://www.thecompletepatient.com/jo...to-appear.html

This is the law and should be obeyed, I am glad to have someone look out for the public's interest. There was a report of someone getting sick after drinking raw milk so it is the right of the health dept or MI dept of Ag to get involved. The reason they had to go about it the way they did is because of LAWYERS alway looking for the loopholes to get their clients off. Not proved innocent, just cleared. But Ken, you will not be liked for your rational thinking.LOL

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"When you have a freedom, Thank a Soldier"
"When you lose a freedom, Thank a Lawyer"
"When you read this, Thank a Teacher"

See what raw milk is up against. www.milkismilk.com It's a site run by the Center For Global Food Issues, which is an offshoot of the think tank Hudson Institute. They also run a number of other sites including a mad cow facts site. They are highly opposed to organics, raw foods, pasture-raised farming and the like. The heavily promote the "dangers" of raw milk and organic foods. Biotechnology, factory farming and pesticides are their crusades. They have a lot of money and lot of influence. The Hudson Institute is funded by many firms whose products are excluded from organic agriculture: AgrEvo, Dow AgroSciences, Monsanto, Novartis Crop Protection, Zeneca, Du Pont, DowElanco, ConAgra, and Cargill.

Some highlights from their site and articles.........

With proper testing, it may be possible to offer a safe, unpasteurized product to the consuming public. But the onus is on producers to show the rest of us that data. Adults, do whatever you think works, but please, don't impose your dietary regimes on your kids. Flowery words don't do much for kids in the hospital.

"After you've been drinking raw milk for a while, you can't drink store-bought again. It has a lot more flavor and is healthier." Tell that to the kids in hospital with a potentially fatal illness.

Although advocates of raw milk like to extol its virtues, food safety experts cringe, comparing it to playing Russian roulette. Simply put, raw milk contains all sorts of bacteria -- some that are harmless or even beneficial, some that cause spoilage, and some, such as E. coli O157:H7, Listeria monocytogenes, and Salmonella typhimurium DT-104, that can cause severe illness.

Before pasteurization became the norm, contaminated milk was linked to diseases such as typhoid fever, diphtheria, scarlet fever, dysentery, and even tuberculosis. Pasteurization doesn't sterilize milk, which would kill all of its organisms, but its moderate, precise heat treatment is designed to kill bacteria that cause illness without significantly changing its flavor and nutritional value. It also helps slow spoilage, allowing your milk to last longer. U.S. law requires all milk that is shipped between states to be pasteurized.

And more important, does the organic movement itself, whose coattails Whole Foods has ridden to such success, have dark secrets of its own? But even if Whole Foods has a happy staff and nice windmills, is it really as virtuous as it appears to be? But here's another technical point that Whole Foods fails to mention and that highlights what has gone wrong with the organic-food movement in the last couple of decades.

In fact there are absolutely no health concerns associated with rBST-leading national and international health organizations, including the American Medical Association, the National Institutes of Health, the American Dietetic Association and regulatory agencies in 50 countries have affirmed that milk produced from rBST-supplemented cows is safe.

In the case of milk, labels that claim to be "pesticide-free," "antibiotic-free" or "hormone-free" are misleading and in most cases simply false. All milk, for example, has hormones (over 25 different hormones are naturally found in milk), whether a cow received supplements to increase milk production or not.
And supplements don't change milk; they just increase the cow's ability to produce milk more efficiently.Put plain and simply - such claims are designed to separate consumers from more of their money by making product distinctions which do not exist. These practices advance false health, nutrition and animal welfare perceptions, resulting in consumers spending more of their limited food budgets.

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Ultra Lord is not afraid of chickens!

Siryet,
Ken is absolutely right - if this was a true cow/herd share and owners were only drinking the milk from their cow/herd then the yearly price per share would equate to the cost of the cow divided by the number of share owners. You can't sell more share of the cow than there is cow. There also should be provisions about the death/sale of the cow, the vet/breeding expenses and even the ownership of the yearly calf.
For each share of the cow you own, you would be entitled to a certain number of gallons of milk, pounds of butter or cheese from your cow, porportianate to what she gives per year.

Anything other than this and you are actually not the partial owner of a cow/herd and are buying milk, which may or may not be illegal in the state you live in.

Even if it is legal in your state, over exuberant county health officials can still (temporarily) shut you down. The county health department shut down our farm a couple years ago when they found out we sold raw milk. Shoot, they even turned our names over to theh FBI as 'suspicious terrorist activity'. It took the state health department calling them and letting them know we could legally sell it on the farm, within state paramaters (DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR RAW MILK SALES ON OUR FARM, JUST A POST ABOUT THE IL REGS CONCERNING RAW MILK SALES) one being we do not advertise the sale of raw milk.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrikaner
How long before they start controlling the veggies you sell?


There have already been cases where a farmer was forced to pay taxes on the crops he grew for his own use -
The state demanded the sales tax that he would have had to pay if if he had bought the crops instead of growing his own.
Is your kitchen garden next? Will there be some crop inspector to come out and weigh your harvest, or will they just estimate based on the square footage of you garden plot?
My guess is it will be the former becasue that would cost more and create more bureaucracy - they love that.

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Hut on the Hill Farm
http://www.hutonthehill.org

Do you remember where this was or anythign else about the story? I'd like to read more about it. It just seems so insane.

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Our website promoting the use of Missouri Herbs. www.MissouriHerbs.com

I've read about that too, but I don't think there are any cases in the US (I could be wrong).

It's common practice in Germany, IIRC.

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I did a search and can't find the link, but I know I've posted the link here on HT before so when I get a chance I'll see if I can dig it up.
I vaguely remember finding it while researching an anti-consumerism site.

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Hut on the Hill Farm
http://www.hutonthehill.org

A true patriot.

BRAVO... BRAVO... BRAVO.

For those that are interested or want to become better informed, check out "The Milk Book" by Dr. Douglass. VERY good read. I mentioned it in another thread but it will really open your eyes.

Wish we could buy raw milk up here. I may have to work on a lobby for that...

I've been operating a small farm in northern Michigan for about 30 years. Like many of you that subscribe to this web site, I like the idea of independence from Government control and don't trust big business.
However, I have an opposing viewpoint on many of the food safety issues discussed here. What is the Department of Agriculture to do on these new (and some old) food safety issues? Since Mad Cow is spread by animals being fed animal products, who's going to police that? Just a few weeks ago the USDA discoverd a warehouse in Detroit that had goose internal parts in unmarked containers and some not refrigerated. The guts came from China. Some containers were marked as Fish. On one hand we want a safe food supply, but on the other we want the Department of Agriculture to stay out of it. People seem suprised that there would be regulations on eggs. Becides where they come from, they are a perishable product.
For a few years I was buying fruit trees from a Nursery in Montana, then pre-selling them and delivering the trees when they arrived. I was operating a Nursery out of the back of my pickup truck for two days a year, but i had to be inspected and licensed. I thought that was a bunch of crap, until Michigan got an infestation of Emerald Ash Bore from China. Now, I want everyone that's moving trees into this State to be inspected.
I thought a back yard flock was the way to go, plenty of fresh air, green grass,etc. As much as I hate to admit it, those huge poultry factories are producing a lot safer product than us Homesteaders. Avian Influenza from migratory birds will be picked up by our back yard flocks way sooner than it will ever hit an enclosed commercial setup. Just try to enter a poultry operation. They limit outside contact, require disposable coveralls, etc.
As far as raw milk or unpasturized cider goes, I'm sure most people do a good job in keeping their product clean. But are they all doing a good job? No. So who's going to make sure it is safe? People cry about an intrusive government, but as soon as a couple babies die from some contaminated product, we expect the government to protect us. The Government sets up regulations to protect the food supply and to their own peril people find ways around it.
If you are really Homesteading, raising your own food, I think the Government should stay out of your operation. For the most part they do. However, once you enter into the Public Marketplace, you are in a regulated industry. One of the great things about Homestrading is you get to know where your food comes from. However, for the rest of the country, a simple ear tag provides that knowledge. If you are depending on the income from the sale of your cows, you want some acountability on who's cows came from where. Say if a cow was found to have TB, don't you want to know the source of the TB? Tracing back to the origin is only possible with an electronic ID and a data base. Quick traceback insures your market stays open by pinpointing the problem and insuring a safe food supply.
The Government isn't out to get you.

I know big buisness is out to get us and they are using the government.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

Imagine this: Choose certain days for all members of all groups to contact public officials. If they are getting millions of calls and letters they will HAVE to pay attention. At that point, we can demand a law be passed to make it legal for raw milk, eggs, meat, veggies, etc.
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The phone calls and letters mean nothing to them, they are thrown away and answered by kids making miniumum wage.

We are at this point in Texas. Problem is, when our officals look at the AG census, it shows 1500 dairy goats being milked....there are more than 1500 dairy goats being milking in mine and surrounding counties touching mine...so who isn't filling out their AG census so those officials care about loosing the votes of those 1 million dairy goat's owners and their customers who are producing milk in our state? It is a double edge sword, we want the freedoms to sell raw milk in our state, a duplicate of Mississippi's or Oklahomas regs.. we WANT The governement to do this for us, but at the same time we DON"T want the governement to know we are selling milk or have stock, or NAIS or or or...you can't have it both ways. So we have it no ways.

Vicki

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Vicki McGaugh
Nubian Soaps
North of Houston TX
www.etsy.com/shop/nubiansoaps

A 3 decade dairy goat farm homestead that is now a retail/wholesale soap company and construction business.

Since Mad Cow is spread by animals being fed animal products...
THIS IS NOT TRUE.

On one hand we want a safe food supply, but on the other we want the Department of Agriculture to stay out of it.
THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT KEPT OUR FOOD SAFE.

Now, I want everyone that's moving trees into this State to be inspected.
OKAY........GO INSPECT THEM.

...those huge poultry factories are producing a lot safer product than us Homesteaders.
YOU ARE KIDDING, RIGHT?

Just try to enter a poultry operation.
EVEN GETTING CLOSE TO ONE MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT.

The Government sets up regulations to protect the food supply ...
THOSE REGULATIONS ARE TO BENEFIT CORPORATE AMERICA, THEY ARE NOT TO PROTECT YOU.

If you are really Homesteading, raising your own food, I think the Government should stay out of your operation. For the most part they do.
IN WHAT COUNTRY?

The Government isn't out to get you.
NOW THAT IS REALLY FUNNY!

Probably the best book i've read is Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser.
Since the large packing houses have Walmarted every one out of buisiness our food is more at risk of contamination of all types.The removal of dangerous tissue from cattle is suppervised by packing house employees that don't have experience or time to do the job right,and they want to keep their job also. They police themselves folks!$$$$$$
Mechanicle dehiders can't see the manure that gets on the meat.So if it's bad or the meat smells off, they spray it with chemicles to mask all that filth!
The U.S.D.A. in one testing period found 78% of all ground meat contained fecal matter.
And don't start on factory farmed chickens and how much safer they are .Yeah you can't get near the place because they are so voulnerable to disease you could wipe them out!And the people are getting sick that work in those environments!Tysons and a couple others expoit the farmers so bad the average time in buisiness is less than ten years and more like three because they go belly up.They are told what they have to feed and do with no control if they want to try and recoup the money it took to go into buisiness.Salmonela is quite a problem in these operations.
And I will take my chances with pastured birds that are not fed arsenic to make them gain!How many have gotten sick from avian flue in America as opposed to salmonella from the factory farmed broilers huh???
Besides mechanical fingers can't tell if a chicken is in the right position to remove the intestines and tend to drive fecal matter through the meat!!!
Buy chicken at Wally Mart and look at the dark stuff around the bones(dried blood) and check for broken bones= rough handling before during and after slaughter.MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM appetizing .
People wake up you are putting your loved ones at risk every meal that is'nt home grown or local!!
Get the book and you won't let your kids eat school lunches because the U S D A has been bought by packing conglomerates through politicians on the take.
It's all documented and will be a life saver IF READ
I could go on all night trying to warn you but some may have already fallen asleep .
Chas
PS all those kindly meat recalls lately.......they wait a week or two untill the meat has been used up and then recall thousands of pounds! And guess what, it's been eaten! They loose next to nothing by waiting and putting you at risk!

They don't inspect the cows - they sit in an office and push paper through. Earlier this year, the USDA even reduced the number of inspectors.

Which is why the USDA recommends that all beef be cooked medium-well to well done. Yum, grilled fecal!

We like our steaks rare so we raise our own meat.

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