NAIS in VA - the Henshaws

hollym · #41 10/07/06, 09:29 PM

Definitely a well written post. I find it completely shocking that people can be treated this way. No one should have their rights infringed upon like this unless they are guilty of murder or terrorism.

An aside-I have met mamajohnson, and she is a very nice, warm, centered, family oriented woman, not a wacko. I really think that people might want to think it through before they throw names at others. It's sometimes difficult to remain rational when you are deeply passionate about a little thing I like to call freedom.

hollym

rambler · #42 10/07/06, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bostonlesley

As far as folks having some sort of a feeling of repugnance concerning a hunting preserve..when you see a bunch of Black Angus beef cattle grazing in pasture, does it occur to you that one day they will be loaded up into livestock trailers, taken to a slaughter house, herded down shutes and (GASP) knocked to their knees one by one ? They DO get eaten, and that's the purpose of raising them..beef, it's what's for supper. Animals on a hunting preserve get shot and killed..that's what they're there for. Those hogs got whacked by government agents..they would have gotten whacked by hunters..The difference is that the owner of them had no recourse..

Certainly. I find it incredulious that the lady would try to make any type of sentimental argunment about the hogs getting shot & bloody. All a bunch of huey, is what I'm saying. The hogs were going to get shot anyhow. Why is she trying to play on our sympathies with all that nonesense? Her plea is written like a fiction. Their story don't add up - it's just a story.

It is just not believable. I'm sorry you are taken in by them. They are trying to play the public for fools. They were irrisponsible, and the govt had to deal with the issue that _they_ made and didn't deal with themselves. These would be the neighbors from heck, not people to pity!

My opinion, and my amazement I guess. Can't believe folks are so easily taken in by bad people.

I won't bore you on this thread any more, you know my opinion, don't need to hear it any more.

--->Paul

mamajohnson · #43 10/07/06, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollym

Definitely a well written post. I find it completely shocking that people can be treated this way. No one should have their rights infringed upon like this unless they are guilty of murder or terrorism.

An aside-I have met mamajohnson, and she is a very nice, warm, centered, family oriented woman, not a wacko. I really think that people might want to think it through before they throw names at others. It's sometimes difficult to remain rational when you are deeply passionate about a little thing I like to call freedom.

hollym

Ahhhh Holly! how sweet! Thnx so much! (I didnt think I was a wacko!)

So cool you would put in a good word for me,,, was wondering how ya'll were doing just this afternoon.! great minds run together dont they?

jnap31 · #44 10/08/06, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rambler

Certainly. I find it incredulious that the lady would try to make any type of sentimental argunment about the hogs getting shot & bloody. All a bunch of huey, is what I'm saying. The hogs were going to get shot anyhow. Why is she trying to play on our sympathies with all that nonesense? Her plea is written like a fiction. Their story don't add up - it's just a story.

It is just not believable. I'm sorry you are taken in by them.
--->Paul

Two of the hogs were their pets I take it you did not read the articles?

GrannyCarol · #45 10/08/06, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollym

Definitely a well written post. I find it completely shocking that people can be treated this way. No one should have their rights infringed upon like this unless they are guilty of murder or terrorism.

Can you define terrorism? Also... how many people accused of murder (but actually innocent) would be treated as if they were guilty UNLESS we also treat their rights with the same strictness as everyone else's?

You might want to rethink that statement a bit... In this country, we are supposed to be innocent until PROVEN guilty, but I don't think anyone really believes that anymore.

No one should have their rights infringed on like that period.

It isn't about killing the hogs. It's about breaking their own rules to ride over a man's life without regard to either the laws or the man involved. And, yes, if they will do that now, without much legal support, what will they do when NAIS comes into affect and the law gives them tons more discretion as to how to deal with people and their livestock?

The rural, homesteading, way of life will come entirely at an end. Any illusion that we actually own land (try not paying taxes if you think you own your land!) or that we have the right to grow our own food, etc., will come to an end. I'd rather people spoke up to stop that BEFORE it happens. If the way of life that we desire doesn't end right off, it will continue to errode until it does.

~ Carol

hollym · #46 10/08/06, 01:11 AM

Carol, my point was that the treatment that these people received was way beyond, over, above, out of proportion, absurd, unthinkable, and should never have happened. We are saying the same thing, really, so........why nitpick about my phraseology??? By guilty, I meant proven guilty.
by terrorism, I would mean mass murder of innocents. I'm a liberal, you'd have to go way out there for me not to stick up for your rights, trust me.

MamaJ, de nada, I meant it, I thought ya'll were great! We are all doing fine, thank you, kids growing so fast that they'll be driving and all before I can turn around twice!

Ok, for the literal minded, it will be one year, five months, and seventeen days before my daughter will be eligible for her learner's permit and three years, eleven months and two weeks before my son is.

Maybe some of it IS hype, has anyone been able to track it down for certain? At any rate, if even a tenth of it is true, it shouldn't be happening. If you don't pay taxes, you are evicted, it's true, but you recieve notices, are able to attend hearings, etc. You have a chance to rectify it, or at least are informed of it with some notice. They don't show up at your house at 5am, refuse to let you use a phone that you pay for, take your husband away for hours, etc.
Big difference. Even if some of this is exxaggerated, I am feeling more and more strongly lately that we all need to be paying very careful attention to what is happening.

hollym

Little Bit Farm · #47 10/08/06, 11:13 AM

A list of problems:

1) These hogs were surreptitiously tested without informing the owners that it was being done.

2) The tests were never shown to the owners nor were the owners allowed independent testing.

3) The State of Virginia does not allow vaccination of hogs for pseudo-rabies unless the owner gets the permission of the state to do so.

4) The State claimed that Cindi and Danny had lost their grandfathering, because they moved the pigs, but never bothered to inform them of that.

5) There is NO OVERSIGHT to these people. They do not even have to prove their case before anyone before they just start taking down your herd.

6) The Henshaws are now forced to pay the bills for depopulation of their herd with no evidence that there was ever a problem in the first place.

7) The Virginia law allows for the owners of any herd to butcher their animals for sale, as the disease is non communicable to humans, yet the Henshaws were denied their legal right to do so.

8) Pseudo-rabies is a disease that causes death to the newborn pigs, yet the pigs on the farm that the government goons were unable to slaughter were healthy babies running around.

9) Virginia Law requires STRICT guidelines for depopulation which includes no contamination of blood products.

10) The government conveniently destroyed evidence by incineration the carcasses.

Red Hogs, how large is your hog operation???

Little Bit Farm

jnap31 · #48 10/08/06, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Bit Farm

Red Hogs, how large is your hog operation???

Little Bit Farm

That is a personal question I dont think he wants to respond to. Good post littlebitfarm those are indeed questions we should all be asking and how a country that is suppose to have a Constitution and Bill of rights and the writings of our founding fathers could have strayed so very far from what it was meant to be.

Little Bit Farm · #49 10/08/06, 11:42 AM

A pertinent question though in these days of corporate farming

. I am extremely pleased, because I went to look at Oklahomas law regarding this, and the law here does not provide for the wholesale slaughter of someone's animals. Here I would have legal recourse. Oklahoma's eradication program, which is working very well, denies the importation of untested swine. The reason I moved here from California was because of the more favorable climate for the small farm as compared to the rest of the nation. Here it is still legal to sell milk and eggs right off the farm. I am working very hard to keep the small farmer a legitimate enterprise in Oklahoma. What happened in Virginia is only helping my cause here.

Oklahomans_against_NAIS@yahoogroups.com

Little Bit Farm

RedHogs · #50 10/08/06, 07:14 PM

I don't know how it is in other states, but Tennessee reimburses the owner, they actually pay above the market rate a few cents and are very generous on the wieghts of the animals. The state also pays for the spraying of the farm under most situations, and all testing is free. it is still a financial loss for quaility breeding stock and loss of opprotunity for profit, but not a total loss. I have said in months past, i have never had a bad experience with the Dept. of Ag, they go out of their way to help and are always very respectful of me and my farm. I may hot like the hassle of NAIS but I will support it becasuse of outbreaks like this.

GrannyCarol · #51 10/08/06, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHogs

I may hot like the hassle of NAIS but I will support it becasuse of outbreaks like this.

I would like to ask you, then, how would NAIS prevent an outbreak like this - assuming that there WAS an outbreak, as we have no way of knowing?

~ Carol

lmnde · #52 10/08/06, 10:23 PM

...what I find absolutely ludicrous is the refusal of some to see the connection between NAIS and large food conglomerates. This is about politics! This is about making you fear and submit and getting you to keeping a low profile - because as long as you stand in between a national animal id system - you stand between their opportunity for more profit in export.

In order to trade and export to certain other countries - the big US meat producers do need NAIS - as it is so written in some international trade treaty - someone posted the link to it in another NAIS threat here in the forum - I read so many of them, I can't remember which one in - whoever did and reads this - pls post that link again!

And if you think big business and politics are not bedfellows - you are seriously deluded. All you need to read up on "George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography". This goes back way into the early 1930ies - it is still the same players [families] now as it was then. If you really want to be appalled by the calleousness of our politicians - including the family of our past + current presidents - just read this single chapter below - there is more - but this one is enough to be an eye opener even for the blindest of you!

Chapter -III- Race Hygiene: Three Bush Family Alliances

http://www.tarpley.net/bush3.htm

If you think that intimidating small farmers [hunting preserves, ranchers, whatever] with heavy handed techniques is the worst that's looking at you - perhaps you want to read this - I quote:

Quote:

In 1988, the U.S. Agency for International Development signed its latest contract with the old Sterilization League (a.k.a. Association for Voluntary Surgical Contraception), committing the U.S. government to spend $80 million over five years.

Having gotten away with sterilizing several hundred North Carolina school children, `` not usually less than eight to ten years old, '' the identical group is now authorized by President Bush to do it to 58 countries in Asia, Africa and Ibero-America. The group modestly claims it has directly sterilized `` only '' two million people, with 87 percent of the bill paid by U.S. taxpayers.

I mean - gee - what are a couple of hogs, or sheep or cows - when they sterilized our kids in the past and have an extensive sterilization program going on in "ethnic" countries now? Give me a break!

These families [large conglomerates] made their money in war related profits and war crimes - took full advantage of their know-how + money then and are still running with it in the second and third generations since then. They don't go into politics for the goodness and wellbeing of their constituents - they go into politics to keep the upper hand over the competition, and a lid on you, and to protect their personal interests and fortunes.

If you think otherwise - don't take my word for it - but it is time to wake up and do some research on your own!

GrannyCarol · #53 10/08/06, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmnde

....If you think otherwise - don't take my word for it - but it is time to wake up and do some research on your own!

No, I'm afraid doing research is for consipracy whackos

Seriously, I agree that the whole NAIS thing is about big business hand in hand with the government to control food supplies world wide. If we look at how the Iraqi's are forced to plant Montsano's patented seed and are no longer allowed to keep and plant the seeds they have saved for generations, we see part of the overall pattern of controlling populations through food. It is the same government that promotes Montsano that is promoting NAIS. The family farmer and the Homesteader cannot profit by the NAIS bill. It will be very burdonsome to keep the records and make it all the more difficult to make a profit. Each animal, even many of our pets, will be required to carry an RFID chip and have all of it's movements documented.

However, if you own a large agribusiness... you can have your animals tracked by herds and it will open up export business to you to increase your profits!

Although the provisions of the NAIS bill are not in effect and are not responsible for the Henshaw incident, the same government that has over reacted and strong armed the Henshaws without regard for their rights, is passing the more restrictive NAIS bill. How will they enforce that one?

Perhaps they ought to pass a bill that would require each of us to wear an RFID chip? Then they could track any disease WE carry around more easily! Although it seems ridiculous that the US gov't might deny people their Constitutional rights, it is the same goverment that has been sending people, without charging them and without trial, to Guantanimo Bay and using "torture light" on them. Now you will say that I am being sensationalist, or that they deserved it... but how do we know that those men are actually terrorists? Or perhaps they just angered some official? All that it takes to be a terrorist today is for Pres. Bush to sign a paper with your name on it. He can't possibly know or care whose names are on the stacks of papers put in front of him to sign every day.

I say that we already have enough bad legislation in place to destroy the United States Constitution, our way of life, our freedoms, our Bill of Rights and all the things we are used to believing this country stands for. Wake up! Don't blindly accept more restrictions that don't actually make life safer for anyone just because they may sound good. Don't just assume that because the US does it, it is good. There are corrupt men here just as anywhere else.

~ Carol

arabian knight · #54 10/09/06, 07:37 AM

This all goes hand in hand with this http://www.nascocorridor.com/ The NAFTA Superhighway. This is a World Wide economy and there is no turning back as this would really hurt the USA now as a lot of things are being brought in here from Off Shore, from the computer you are on right now to those that have TV's Radio's, and yes even Refrigerators.

jnap31 · #55 10/09/06, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmnde

...what I find absolutely ludicrous is the refusal of some to see the connection between NAIS and large food conglomerates. This is about politics! This is about making you fear and submit and getting you to keeping a low profile - because as long as you stand in between a national animal id system - you stand between their opportunity for more profit in export.

In order to trade and export to certain other countries - the big US meat producers do need NAIS - as it is so written in some international trade treaty - someone posted the link to it in another NAIS threat here in the forum - I read so many of them, I can't remember which one in - whoever did and reads this - pls post that link again!

And if you think big business and politics are not bedfellows - you are seriously deluded. All you need to read up on "George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography". This goes back way into the early 1930ies - it is still the same players [families] now as it was then. If you really want to be appalled by the calleousness of our politicians - including the family of our past + current presidents - just read this single chapter below - there is more - but this one is enough to be an eye opener even for the blindest of you!

Chapter -III- Race Hygiene: Three Bush Family Alliances

http://www.tarpley.net/bush3.htm

If you think that intimidating small farmers [hunting preserves, ranchers, whatever] with heavy handed techniques is the worst that's looking at you - perhaps you want to read this - I quote:

I mean - gee - what are a couple of hogs, or sheep or cows - when they sterilized our kids in the past and have an extensive sterilization program going on in "ethnic" countries now? Give me a break!

These families [large conglomerates] made their money in war related profits and war crimes - took full advantage of their know-how + money then and are still running with it in the second and third generations since then. They don't go into politics for the goodness and wellbeing of their constituents - they go into politics to keep the upper hand over the competition, and a lid on you, and to protect their personal interests and fortunes.

If you think otherwise - don't take my word for it - but it is time to wake up and do some research on your own!

I agree with a lot of your post but surely you dont belive the bit about sterilization of school children in the USA That has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have have ever heard. I know the USA has spread germs on cities in the USA and tested plutonium and nuclear weapons on people and the like but sterilization that is the first I have heard of that.

Little Bit Farm · #56 10/09/06, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHogs

I may hot like the hassle of NAIS but I will support it becasuse of outbreaks like this.

Because we all know that the bottom line is more important than the liberty and welfare of fellow American citizens right???

I posted the following on another thread on one of the sister boards here, in a few e-mails to interested parties, and I think it is more than pertinent here:

How about we revisit history

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Especially since it seems that we have such short memories in this country. What is the common thread between most tyrannical regimes in History??? Answer, an attack on farms and farmers:

USSR:

http://www.historyplace.com/worldhi...cide/stalin.htm
http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Ge...aine_famine.htm

Zimbabwe:

http://www.davekopel.com/NRO/2001/Ripe-for-Genocide.htm
http://www.economist.com/background...story_id=866638

Hitler:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...s&ct=clnk&cd=33
http://www.cyberussr.com/rus/revision-hitler.html

Cambodia, Pol Pot:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...us&ct=clnk&cd=7
http://www.theworldisnotflat.com/khmer-rouge
http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~afilr...mbodia-nyt.html

China:

http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/h...ese_famine.html
http://www.fff.org/freedom/0697f.asp
http://205.188.238.109/time/magazin...,907402,00.html

Need I go on??? I don't think so.

History need not repeat itself unless we ignore the past.

Little Bit Farm

Nature_Lover · #57 10/09/06, 10:54 AM

This is probably the most comprehensive account of the "intelligence testing program" in Winston-Salem, and although it's dated, it's the truth.

The last fifteen (or so) paragraphs are most enlightening, and disturbing.

**Terri** · #58 10/09/06, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jnap31

I agree with a lot of your post but surely you dont belive the bit about sterilization of school children in the USA That has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have have ever heard. I know the USA has spread germs on cities in the USA and tested plutonium and nuclear weapons on people and the like but sterilization that is the first I have heard of that.

Only the kids that the state got their hands on. That was around the time of WW2, when the eugenics theory was at its peak. It was NOT! a good time to be in Foster care!

kesoaps · #59 10/09/06, 11:25 AM

Jnap, it did happen, sadly. A few years ago I saw an interview of a couple brothers who'd come from a large family; the children were shipped to different homes and most of them sterilized.

lmnde · #60 10/09/06, 12:30 PM

Quote:

I agree with a lot of your post but surely you dont belive the bit about sterilization of school children in the USA That has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have have ever heard. I know the USA has spread germs on cities in the USA and tested plutonium and nuclear weapons on people and the like but sterilization that is the first I have heard of that.

If you had bothered to read that entire article with the link given in my previous post above - perhaps you'd see the potential for truth and the connections. Some of the original families of big corporate America have had their fingers in financing WWII + Hitler [including the Bush's and close croonies of theirs] and have profited not only from the war by supporting the other side but have used that misbegotten money to further their business interests and fortunes; some have been found to be traitors to the American Country and had charges filed against them and their offspring today is still foremost in politics and if not in the front - then in the powers behind the throne...

I quote:

Quote:

On March 25, 1942, U.S. Assistant Attorney General Thurman Arnold announced that William Stamps Farish (grandfather of the President's money manager) had pled "no contest'' to charges of criminal conspiracy with the Nazis. Farish was the principal manager of a worldwide cartel between Standard Oil Co. of New Jersey and the I.G. Farben concern. The merged enterprise had opened the Auschwitz slave labor camp on June 14, 1940, to produce artificial rubber and gasoline from coal. The Hitler government supplied political opponents and Jews as the slaves, who were worked to near death and then murdered.

Ps.: Standard Oil Co. of New Jersey has later been renamed to Exxon - sound vaguely familiar?

Eugenics is a fact and was a big working program in the 40ies and after - there had been several state funded programs financing sterilization programs in the US and abroad. If you think I make this up - don't take my word for it though - short excerpt from wikipedia in regards to "eugenics" - read the entire thing by clicking on the link below or look it up yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

Quote:

Some states sterilized "imbeciles" for much of the 20th century. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the 1927 Buck v. Bell case that the state of Virginia could sterilize those it thought unfit. The most significant era of eugenic sterilization was between 1907 and 1963, when over 64,000 individuals were forcibly sterilized under eugenic legislation in the United States.[18] A favorable report on the results of sterilization in California, by far the state with the most sterilizations, was published in book form by the biologist Paul Popenoe and was widely cited by the Nazi government as evidence that wide-reaching sterilization programs were feasible and humane. When Nazi administrators went on trial for war crimes in Nuremberg after World War II, they justified the mass sterilizations (over 450,000 in less than a decade) by citing the United States as their inspiration.[19]

And just in case you think this was all in the past and done and over with - here's more for you - http://www.eugenics-watch.com/roots/chap12.html

Quote:

There may be huge sums of new money coming to the eugenics movement in the beginning of the 21st century. Three of the richest men in the world have indicated that they intend to use their wealth to improve the quality of life (for some).

Ted Turner became a billionaire by developing a television network, CNN. He is giving one billion dollars to the United Nations, doled out over ten years by his own foundation, and is steering a large portion of it to population control.

Warren Buffett has discussed plans for a foundation to distribute his money after he dies. The foundation is to focus on two issues: world peace and population control. His fortune in early 1999 was reported to be over $30 billion and growing steadily.

Other billionaires have begun funding parts of the eugenics movement. Bill Gates, the richest man in the country, and George Soros, the financier, have started putting their money into population control projects.

I rest my case!

Now truth be told - we have come a long ways from NAIS with this, which was not my intention at all - my intention was to show the connections between politics and large agri business, of which much has been monopolized over the years and is still held by the same families which were in part influential and responsible for the eugenics movement 50-60 years ago. Now back to my earlier statement -

[QUOTE]...what I find absolutely ludicrous is the refusal of some to see the connection between NAIS and large food conglomerates. This is about politics! This is about making you fear and submit and getting you to keeping a low profile - because as long as you stand in between a national animal id system - you stand between their opportunity for more profit in export. [/QUOTE]

Quote:

These families [large conglomerates] made their money in war related profits and war crimes [ added for emphasis: against their own country as well as against innocent citicens of other countries] - took full advantage of their know-how + money then and are still running with it in the second and third generations since then. They don't go into politics for the goodness and wellbeing of their constituents - they go into politics to keep the upper hand over the competition, and a lid on you, and to protect their personal interests and fortunes.