NAIS in VA - the Henshaws

Sure they call people wackos who speak out and warn about dangers. That is the way you neutralize someone. After all, who is going to listen to a wacko.

Yes, black helicopters exist - but for years, the media and politicians, called everyone a wacko who said they had seen them. Remember? Even now, that phrase 'black helicopters' is dropped into many discussions in an attempt to make the warnings seem silly.

Yes, and the two things most discussed regarding the Patriot Act is the library searches. That is merely an attempt to make that law seem so safe. I mean if the worse part of it is looking at what is checked out at a library, how bad can it be?

The connection, I agree, is in the tactics used. I think those will be the tactics that will be used.

Also, I do think this NAIS law is simply to attempt to stop people from raising their own food. Or at the very least to be able to control what you raise, how much you raise and whether or not you could sell any of it.

Another take on the situation, however. If I remember correctly, the letter said that people from the Pentagon and WAshington came there to hunt the pigs. Could the owners have made one of those government types angry about something - and could this be revenge? I would like to know if they ever had any altercations with anyone lately?

One more thing, anyone, anyone, who doesn't think this government is capable of anything and everything just hasn't had their eyes, ears, and minds open in the last 15 or 20 years.

Well, Caberjim, considering you went to school in the 80's I gaurantee I have at least 15-20 years headstart on you. So, yes, that DOES give me more wisdom. And, I have no doubt that your crowd would "fuzz" out at the mention of this. Most younger folks are still bullet proof and have no idea, much less care to know, what is REALLY going on.
But, you are entitled to your opinion, Thnx for sharing it with us!

Of course, I wasnt the one calling folks wacko's, or asking them if they wore tinfoil hats.
All I did was state facts and my opinion. NAIS is a hot topic, and everyone I have talked to (especially the old farmers/rachers around here) have really been upset by it. In fact, everyone I have talked to that knows about this incident is pretty upset about it too.

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The disease is supposedly (from reading the USDA website) well controlled in this country and there is an established protocol of quarantine, then allowing the farmer to have them slaughtered for food. I don't see any reason that wasn't allowed in an orderly manner, with the farmer being shown the results of testing and allowing the farmer to get his own tests done. I don't see any productive reason for having armed men show up at 5 am in several trucks to arrest the farmer, then kill all the livestock, without allowing the owner any say in how it was done, or recourse as to it's necessity.

The only reason I can see for the actions of the USDA and related officers is to intimidate others. Why? They must have some reason to believe that intimidation will do something, that it will create some result down the road that is favorable to those in power today.

Perhaps I am a "whacko", but I was really sobered to see the black copter that "whackos" talked about a few years ago a commonplace thing today. I believe that we will see things considered "whacko" today be commonplace tomorrow. It wasn't long ago that I was a good little prole that quite believed that no one would do anything mean or nasty on purpose, would they? Any bad result must be the result of a screw up, right? Well, as time goes on, I realize that I was very naive and I guess I'm growing up a bit. So, if I am whacko, so be it!

~ Carol

My guess for the reason the established protocol was not followed is because those rules were written for domestic hogs that are confined, available for testing and isolation, and easy to load up to ship to slaughter.

These are wild hogs - the only way to gather them in for testing is by tranquilizing them one at a time and dragging them out(not possible in heavy brush) or with catchdogs (who are likely to die of pseodorabies if they bite an infected hog). There is no "orderly" way to test free ranging wild animals.

Here is a link to a Charlottesville, Va weekly paper that the Henshaws plight made the front cover. Not ALL media is ignoring this. But most.

[http://www.readthehook.com/stories/2...er-F.doc.aspx]

I think Gladstone is about an hour from Charlottesville. Although it is closer to Lynchburg, Va. Also it is in Buckingham County, not Nelson county as someone suggested in an earlier post. The more I read about this the more angry I become. Virginia has not been a friend to the small farmer. Making it nearly impossible to make a living soley by farming. I am very sorry for the Henshaws loss. I can't believe that there wasn't a more compassionate way to have handled this.Has anyone seen or heard from the SPCA or PETA folks on this ? I can't believe the mass slaughter of animals will go unnoticed.

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ChuckinVa


Authentic Appalachian American

Um - you did note that this was a hunting camp where the hogs actually were there to be blown away by firearms in the first place? I found the narrative of the 'pets' and the agents 'celebrating' the shooting and 'all the blood' to be just a _tad_ bit hypicritical.

_Just_ a tad.

--->Paul

rambler, two of the animals were caged and were pets.

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"All that is gold does not glitter..."

I thought they were fenced, not caged - small nit.

Anyhow, don't see much difference as to the main point of the story - supposed to make us all warm & fuzzy feeling to the hogs, because these cruel inhuman govt thugs went around shooting them all......

When, of course, the hogs were there for sport shooting all along.

D'oh!

Seems like we are to be manipulated, not given an accurate account of what really is going on.

My opinion, I understand some of you have different ones.

--->Paul

Paul,
I'm sorry but I see a difference in the two ways the animals could have died. Some might have never been hunted as they were breeding stock and family pets. Wholesale slaughter does not compare, in my opinion, to selectivly hunting an individual animal. But I respect your right to your opinion.

CHUCK

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ChuckinVa


Authentic Appalachian American

I agree with you when hunting in the wild.

On a game farm/hunting farm, I really see very little difference. Just me.

--->Paul

the part that gets me is that the animals were tested twice on the sly and then BAM...terminated with no recourse from the owners. from the established guidelines, presuming that the game commission doesn't get special authority to kill because the animals were somehow listed as exotic russian boars, the animals should have been in a test and quarentine program. if the game commission did get to eliminate the herd because they were exotic, why the need to test the animals to begin with? these people were hit from two different angles. it just makes me wonder why. either the animals were diseased and should have been tested/quarentined yada yada, or the animals were exotic and should have been dealt with as such.

something here is fishy.

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"All that is gold does not glitter..."

This is a normal course of business in hog farming, and is becoming more common as psuedo is being seen more often, as a hog farmer i champion an aggressive eradication program. Here in tennessee - close to a hundred hogs were destroyed outside of nashville in march / april with 3 more positive farms found in the following months. Psuedo will put a farmer out of business, containment and psuedo regs have been in place since the 60's. My farm is often checked, and all hogs leave with health papers.... this is the norm, not the exception....psuedo is spread to containment barns on boots, tires, by dogs and wild animals. The henshows lack of responsibility for thier animal health is being somewhat overlooked..... psuedo and brusilosis are the mad cow disease of the swine industry. The henshaws had a responsibilty to maintain a healthy herd more than even my farm, my pigs won't ever be in a situatuin to spread a disease outside of the barn. The testing is free, there is no excuse for loose positives or carriers. VA is not hard on small farmers, it is protecting herd health for all of us. A catch pen, a holding chute or snare, a few needles..... If you can't do that you don't need to raise hogs. If they had put as much effort into farming as they have playing the victim ..... it wouldn't be a problem.

do they test your animals as a part of a ruse or do they test them out in the open? i understand what you say about being proactive with a test program. when the authorities test your herd, do you know about it?

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this message has probably been edited to correct typos, spelling errors and to improve grammar...

"All that is gold does not glitter..."

Guide lines are in place for positives, according to the disease, with psuedo it is by the a certain mile distance. They contact you on the phone and ask when you were tested last and if you have any new hogs, they scedule a time, then come out. Most farms are tested every three months. There is no secret police.....no great cover up.....if your hogs are positive, they are put down as soon as possible, thats the only option....If i every have a positive, there is no one to blame but me.

Will they destroy all of your hogs if you have one positive?

And I also have to add, if you ever have a positive test, there is "no one" to blame but you??? If that IS true, then why worry about your neighbors hogs? (I understand what you are saying to some extent, but would like a little clarification)

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one positive??? that's wishfull thinking.... it's too serious of an issue to risk keep any others, the farm has to be empty and sprayed for 90 days, the spray is residual so you can restock after that point. but where do you put the others.... if one positive shows up later you have lost another farm for 90 days....and the state has now sprayed twice at a very healthy price tag. The nearest slaughter house that can take psuedo from nashville is florida. Its simple economics, one positive you put them all down. Now you begin to see why a large farm owner can excited real quick about pseudo. My farm biosecrity is my responsibility... but bubba redneck's hogs running loose with a disease makes my job alot harder.

Thank you RedHogs. Finally someone with some experience and perspective directly relating to the specific issue. hear hear!!!!

I think the issue isn't that they were "exotic", but that they were loose on 100 acres. How would they effectively quarantine the hogs? I don't see how they could have trapped and confined that many "wild" pigs in any kind of timely manner. If it took them 3 months to catch them all, how many other wildlife would have been infected? And how many of those infected wildlife could have gotten onto other farms to infect other farmer's animals?

I do think the tactics were probably heavy-handed, but I also understand why they may have seen this as a dire situation that needed to be dealt with quickly and efficiently.

And I think Redhogs raises a very good point. Had the Henshaws ever tested any of their stock for these diseases before? Did they have some kind of biosecurity measures in place to protect against it? I'm guessing maybe not, since it seems 15 of the hogs were probably infected.

How about putting a different perspective on this..

According to the facts, an agent came onto the hunting preserve in MAY and shot a hog which according to the Feds, tested positive for pseudorabies. OK..

Now then..the government says that this owner was operating illegally, and had an infected hog in MAY.
June, July, Aug and most of Sept passes and not a peep out of the government?
There's no person who visits the owner and says "Hey. Here's your official testing result..you have a big problem with your hogs, and BTW, your operation is illegal. You need to get in there and whack those hogs and it's your lucky day, because if you cannot manage that by yourself, we'll be here to assist you..but that will cost you some big bucks on top of the fine we're going to levy on you for this little matter of running an illegal operation. Have a nice day."

Does that happen? Nope..instead, the government agent RETURNS to the hunting preserve and shots another hog ...the owner of the place still being clueless..as in uninformed of any of this..

THEN, the government folks show up at the crack of dawn, documents in hand and commence to "depopulate" the animals. Now THAT's clever thinking..(she said sarcastically). They never even gave the guy any chance to salvage his financial investment..i.e. he COULD have , if given the opportunity, remedied the licensing issue..he'd been sitting there in business for a very LONG time. he COULD have, if given a chance, been able to contact hunters and had some sort of a "super-discount" emergency hunt occur, taking care of the entire problem without losing his shirt in the process. Obviously, if given the same amount of TIME that the government took..5 MONTHS of hunting, the hogs would have been all killed.

As far as folks having some sort of a feeling of repugnance concerning a hunting preserve..when you see a bunch of Black Angus beef cattle grazing in pasture, does it occur to you that one day they will be loaded up into livestock trailers, taken to a slaughter house, herded down shutes and (GASP) knocked to their knees one by one ? They DO get eaten, and that's the purpose of raising them..beef, it's what's for supper. Animals on a hunting preserve get shot and killed..that's what they're there for. Those hogs got whacked by government agents..they would have gotten whacked by hunters..The difference is that the owner of them had no recourse..

The tie-in to NAIS is this. When NAIS becomes mandatory (which is what the USDA draft proposal states WILL happen in 2009), it will permit the Federal Government to come onto your property without a warrant, seize your animals and "depopulate" them IF the local, county, state or federal government officials THINK that your animals pose a threat to the public. WHY? Because when you sign up with NAIS, your livestock aren't "yours" anymore, they will be part of the "National Herd". Nobody will have to prove that your livestock actually ARE diseased. just MAY be diseased..since they aren't "yours" anymore, but animals belonging to the "National Herd", the government can do what they please.
THIS example of how the government works (or doesn't) as far as following it's own written regulations, notifying livestock owners, RAIDING personal property at gunpoint,and "depopulating" animals while financially ruining the owners of them (when other options are available) is key to how the government WILL behave IF NAIS is permitted to stand as written.

bostonlesley, You have done an awesome job of saying, in such an elloquent manner, what I would like to have said. However, my high temper has once again gotten in my way,,, as the outrage of all this makes my blood boil.
I agree with you on every point.
This is not really a different perspective, it is the only one, the one that jumped up in my mind. However, my rage (or outrage) at the situation overcame my sense of .... well.... making sense!

I applaud you, well said.

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