Henshaw Incident - USDA Slaughter of Pigs

I guess I need to restate this as I didn't make it clear in my post.

I am not arguing that there certainly are smallholders that aren't conscience, nor necessarily upright in their handling of animals. I am challenging the idea that was presented about "willy nilly"ness of small holders and that because although that may be true on some instances, it's obviously not true in all...

So where is the greater risk? The lady (or man) feeding her one or two sheep dog food (which obviously she wasn't doing to fatten them up for the market as it wouldn't be economical in the long run) or the Large Farm Facilities feeding hundreds and thousands of ruminants pieces of other ruminants?

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Obviously the greater the numbers the greater the risk but all contaminated or exposed animals do pose a risk. The sad part is everyone is somewhat suspicious about the factory or corporate farms and their potential for disease but many never even think about the risks of disease transmission(no matter how small) that could happen from a sale/barter with another homesteader.

As a matter of course, I always isolated for 30 days and tested all new animals that came onto the farm; it didn't matter how great looking their previous owners set up was- my motto was better safe than sorry.

I'm glad you cleared that up though, I thought you were saying that homesteaders as a whole never implemented less than ideal practices on their farms.

Nah, and perhaps I should even say that on the SR forum that I made mention that if it actually happened as described I would have had my lawyers, the news and anyone else who would have listened there asap.

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I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, animals on small farms and homesteads have a much better quality of life, for the most part, than factory farmed animals.

On the other hand, not all homesteaders are competent stewards of their stock. How many times have folk here come across someone, either a newbie, or raised in 'that kind of family', who out of ignorance or indoctrination creates a life of torture for their animals? How many times have folk here taken in animal rescues?

Are the folk here better than average? I'd like to say so. But can I?

Forgive me if I appear snarky to I point out I was banned for the poultry forum for daring to post about H5N1 avian flu, and voicing my outrage at poultry smuggled to this country from a bird flu infected region, then left to die inside a filthy abandoned house in Texas during a heatwave, obligating officials to test the birds since it could not be determined whether it was heat, illness, or neglect which killed them. When I warned that *this* was why people here in the US need to start implementing biosecurity with their birds at home (poultry smuggling means it can pop up anywhere), I was banned--whether for fearmongering or evangelizing, I still don't know, as I've never received an explanation from the moderator of that forum.

My point is not to play board-drama queen, but to point out that even people who we think we know here, can be part of the problem when it comes to disease control.

Maybe people think they're not important enough to make a difference, but they are, either by following biosecurity and common sense, or by ignoring it.

I'm just sitting here wondering if any of you folks actually read the article.

Point 1 - This guy was NOT a homesteader raising some hogs to eat or sell...

Point 2 - This guy had these hogs and sheep running wild on his "Preserve", where rich folks could pay a big fee to shoot a semi-wild Russion Boar or Ram, and then go home with their trophy and imagine they had been on a real hunt.

Point 3 - Since these hogs were running wild, chances are that they were not very well confined, if they were confined at all (probably no border fences on the "Preserve")...Hogs can root out or tear down just about any fence...except electric...Therefore, these animals interacted with wild animals in the region.

Point 4 - Pseudo-rabies (as confirmed in at least 18 of the hogs) could be spread from the "Preserve" to wildlife in the region, who could then carry it throughout the region and eventually bring it to a feed lot that does produce human food.

Point 5 - Since the game wardens were involved, it leads me to believe that there may have been psuedo-rabiies discovered in the wild animal population, and the source was traced to the "Preserve". Wild game is an important staple in many homes and also a great source of revenue for local retailers and state resources depts. It would have been irresponsible on the part of the game dept. to allow an outbreak that would possibly spread to humans and destroy the hunting season and it's revenues for everyone.

Point 6 - If there had been such an outbreak, this thread would have been about "Why didn't the Authorities shut down that "Preserve?"

OK, fire away...I just read the article, and surmised...BTW these hogs and sheep were being raised to be shot...just came to them a bit early...

However, I can allow that the govt. should have used less heavy-handed means to the same end...but I ain't sure they were wrong in slaughtering this wild herd...it's called "Containment" of a dangerous disease...

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"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

It is identical to the culling of chickens in Vietnam and Thailand which lead to the control of bird flu (or at least, transmission to humans) in those countries, until it was reintroduced from China, where such measures hadn't been implemented (as shown by genetic comparisons).

Culling is a horrible waste, but it works.

That first part rarely comes through from 'the group' on this forum. Farming is made out to be a horrible thing with all the favorite buzz words, while homesteaders are all so pristene....

Just a general feel one gets, not aimed at anyone.

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Many, many posts on this site relating to the NAIS concept talk about the lengths people will go to avoid registering their animals. They talked about hiding their critters at other's places - with offers from some to take the animals, or letting them roam off into the wild for a while. And so forth. This would only make disease outbreaks worse, and just totally confounds me that people would be _that_ irresponsible in such a situation. This would be _during_ an actual outbreak of a known disease, not hiding from some govt tax! I have read this several times over the past year on various sections of this board. Unbelievable.

Most of the bad visuses that affect livestock and humans - including the common cold - come from the homesteading efforts of China. Small flocks of critters living & co-mingling. It breeds the problems that move around the world.

People in the USA generally live under better conditions, but still and all, there are _many_ posts on here about folks proud of the fact that they do not have a septic system & have enough land to just let their sewer run. And so forth.

Where do you think the hogs, chickens, and wildlife will play? At least possibly? It's what causes problems in China. Far less chance of it happening here in the USA - but.....

Confinement systems have their problems. But they isolate herds these days with all-in, all-out methods. Keeps animal groups totally isolated from each other, keeps any outbreaks isolated to one bunch of animals. Went with a friend to help him buy a boar, from a small breeder. Had to wear disposable white suits just to enter a building. Contact is _strictly_ controled on most of these places. The chance of some disease getting out of hand & out into the wild animal population or beyond the one farm is rather low.

Homesteaders tend to show, move, let roam in the wild their critters. All very cool, BUT it does expose their critters to more sources of problems.

Again, on this site folks have talked about letting their small 4 legged critters take care of scraps & meat & dead & ofal from other critters. You don't see those messages?


to me, there is a very strong anti-farmer theme on this site. Always big buzz words against farming.

And then very hurt feelings, and a gang-up against anyone who dares to point out maybe a septic pipe _should_ have a septic tank, or maybe just possibly roaming livestock can pick up or spread stuff from wildlife.....

I do not wish to overtake this thread, and I understand I am in the minority here. I really appreciate a few more balanced replies on this thread compared to others on the topic. I don't want to continue flapping on, but I felt I owed you this message ZYG. I won't try to argue the details. You make some good points too, and there are just as many bad apples in the bigger farms as there are in the very small operations. I'm not saying big is better, or free-ranging is bad.

Only that there actually are problems with either, and NAIS type of regulations really should apply equally to _both_.

And, no, I don't think NAIS will work 100%, but it don't work _at all_ if all the homesteaders get to opt out of it - just because they think they are better than others.

They are not.

--->Paul

Wow I manage to miss all the fun -- I dont ever remember a post about someone with raw sewage running out of a pipe, any chance you could refresh my memory?
As far as diseases crossing into different afected groups in china/nam/etc, Last time I looked they lived a little different lifestyle than even most here do. Not sure where we have thousands/millions of people in close confinement with raw sewage and animals live all over the place, again please feel free to refresh my memory -i Hate getting older! LOL
Support our own here? LOLOL Thats a laugh!
MY questions are was there any prior notice to the family? If there wasnt, why arent they suing the pants off these folks -- it would have been right to kill the herd if it is sick, but to hold the wife for 10 days by armed gaurds seems like kidnapping to me, how was it explained to visitors?

oh one last thing? Homesteading in china?? ROFLMAO!!!
Umm its called subsistance level farming there I believe!

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don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- George W. Bush

Well honestly, the part about the "armed guards" I found a little much because you are exactly right that they would need to be charged with a crime within 72 hours according to Habeas Corpus.

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jnap31,

Pseudorabies is well and alive in Texas...in feral pigs. My friends say you can't notice if a pig has it because it doesn't act sick usually..maybe a slight fever but they don't act sick. He lost some of his hog hunting dogs to it. It's far more painful for dogs than it is for pigs...the dogs end up with a fatal form of rabies and they die painfully from it..hogs don't and people do not get this type of rabies and right now, Texas A & M is doing all kinds of research on it trying to get a new type of rabies shots out there because the hog hunters are griping about their dogs dying from it. It's really bad in East Texas because of the wet soil holding it longer than it is in other parts of Texas. That's why killing hogs is a requirement because they do pass it on.

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Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

Perhaps you can explain to me how NAIS will stop the spread of disease at all? Somehow I fail to understand that. What I see the NAIS will do is to put the small family farmer who tries to comply with it out of business. Also, it puts us, who have a few ducks for eggs and pets, in the position of telling the government when we butcher one, or hatch a few eggs. It's just none of their business.

I have no desire to give up what little freedom I might have left because of fear of imaginary threats, or even, for that matter, real threats. We will see a society that will make 1984 seem free if we don't take a stand and take it a few years ago! The technology exists to watch pretty much everything we do and there are people that want to use it to control us. It is naive to believe otherwise. It is foolish to promote it.

~ Carol

Gee guess maybe I just was born into the wrong time period or country I am a FREE man not a SLAVE, I just dont understand why all the control freaks dont go make their own country or Move to one that is more sympathetic to their facist views instead of trying to change or support the destruction of our own late great Free one.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

Wow your post gave me a horrible feeling I did not know about the jim jones things you mentioned or that the US has used nerve agents on it's own folks.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

Not I said the fly

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

It is not a matter of being better it is a matter of being FREE

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

I agree 100% as do many others and I would just add that sadly I will see this nightmare become a reality but I will not be living under it very long because I will escape to a freeer country with my family or die trying.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

Thanks TedH71 I guess I cant believe everything I read.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

REMEMBER...This guy was raising FERAL HOGS to HUNT...Read On...

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&cd=11




Pseudorabies and Brucellosis Problems in Feral SwineSCWDS Briefs, April 2004, Vol. 20 No. 1

The distribution and density of feral swine populations are increasing rapidly throughout many parts of the United States. Surveys conducted by SCWDS in 1988 indicated that feral swinepopulations were established in portions of 18 states, primarily in the Southeast, California, and Hawaii. Since then, feral swine have become more widespread in the southeastern states, and new populations have been reported in Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Missouri, Ohio, and Oregon.

Although local expansion of feral swine populations can occur naturally, anecdotal evidence suggests that expansion in the Southeast and into the Midwest may have been augmented by translocation of feral swine by hunters.

The expansion of feral swine populations presents numerous epidemiological challenges because the pigs carry a variety of diseases that caninfect wildlife, livestock, and humans. Pseudorabies and swine brucellosis are two diseases offeral swine that are of particular interest to livestock producers. In the case of swine brucellosis, humans also are at risk.

The role that feral swine can play in pseudorabies and swine brucellosis epidemiology provides a glimpse into one of the numerous problems posed by expanding feral swine populations.
PseudorabiesPseudorabies (PRV) is an infectious disease of swine caused by porcine herpesvirus-1. Also known as Aujeszky’s disease or “mad itch,” PRV rarely causes morbidity or mortality in adult swine but frequently causes abortion in pregnant sows and death of neonatal piglets, especially in naive domestic herds.
Infection of domestic swine usually occurs by oronasal or aerosol transmission, but feral swine most often are infected via venereal transmission. Once infected, swine are carriers for life, sporadically shedding virus in the saliva and/or reproductive mucosa.

PRV does not appear to limit the growth of feral populations and, once infected, populations remain infected indefinitely. In secondary hosts, such as cats, cattle, dogs, goats, and sheep,PRV produces an acute, fatal infection of the central nervous system marked by pruritus, convulsions, excessive salivation, and other rabies-like symptoms (hence the namepseudorabies).

PRV does not affect humans, but it has been implicated as an infrequent cause of mortality among numerous wildlife species including coyotes, black bears, brown bears, mink,raccoons, and the endangered Florida panther. Transmission to secondary hosts probably occurs from ingestion of contaminated feed or carcasses or possibly from bite wounds obtained during aggressive encounters.

Despite the severity of disease in secondary hosts, reports of infection in wildlife and domestic animals other than swine are rare. Potential effects of PRV on wildlife populations are unknown.

PRV is of considerable interest to swine producers worldwide because of the economic losses associated with reduced productivity and piglet fatalities. The U.S. Department of Agricultureinitiated a nationwide PRV eradication program in 1989, and the disease has been virtually eliminated from U.S. domestic swine herds; however, PRV has been reported in feral swinefrom at least 10 states.

The persistence of infection in feral populations, coupled with their expanding geographical distribution, has created the potential for reintroduction of virus todomestic herds. As such, spatiotemporal separation of feral and domestic swine is necessary to guarantee that feral swine will not reinfect PRV-free domestic herds.
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"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

1. These threats aren't imaginary. There are real risks to our food supply, livestock, health.

2. Just because many people are fully capable of implementing a program to keep their livestock isolated and have a disease prevention program doesn't mean EVERYONE does it.

It's a sad fact that these things must be put in place because your neighbor down the road might not give a rat's tinker if his poultry are housed correctly, diseased or not.

3. If you think these things are in place to control you or watch you, then you've lost control. Put the tin foil hat on....they are not.

Note: Our family hog farm spent a lot of time and effort in the 1970's working to prevent any introduction of pseudorabies to our herd. Many of our neighbors had it. It was a tense time - even when the feed truck came down the lane - you just never knew where it had been or what was still on its wheels. There's nothing wrong with putting steps in place to protect your animals and the animals in your area.

First off, those of you who haven't read my posts on Mad Sheep should pick up the book and read it. It was written by Linda Faillace of Vermont. She and her husband followed the USDA regs to the letter and with their blessing imported sheep from Belgium nearly 10 years ago. Within a few years, the USDA was screaming that the sheep had mad cow disease, and that they didn't know if Belgium had been feeding animal bone meal.

All feed records had been obtained from the farms purchased from. The Faillaces had been responsible for starting the voluntary scrapie program in Vermont, and the sheep came from certified scrapie free flocks. And...sheep don't get mad cow; it's a different variation.

No tests had been done on the Faillace sheep, but some had been done on sheep they'd imported. The USDA demanded all sheep be given up for testing. Thus began their war on the Faillaces, which lasted years. Both Larry and Linda had studied TSEs and worked in labs in England a few years earlier, so they knew exactly how tests needed to be run and that there was no way their sheep had BSE.

In the end, they went to court...and lost. There's no way they should have lost, because through the freedom of information act they found that over 400 tests had been run showing their sheep to be negative, not positive. Then they found the lab that had run the tests had botched the test, and had never been inspected (which needed to be done to be approved for running these tests), and that the USDA and the Dr from the lab had lied under oath.

The courts still ruled in favor of the USDA, the sheep were confiscated and destroyed, and the family is still waiting for compensation. Armed federal agents were sent along with a whole parade of others to do the deed.


So now go back and read the Henshaw story. See that the evidence was destroyed before anyone could have second tests run on it. See that the family followed the rules when setting up their farm. I'm just not buying that an agent 'just happened to be hunting there' and got a pig that was foaming at the mouth. I sincerely doubt that these animals are a risk at all. I probably would have believed it if I hadn't read the account on the Faillaces...but not now.

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Mustang Diaries

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