Update: on the SHTF for us

You're not suggesting that people who were afraid to speak up are 'sheeple' ..are you?

I posted tongue-in-cheek

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I don't think so, Bink. Look at all the heat that poor QBVII took just for making a very general suggestion about being cautious with people you have only "met" through the internet. She was attacked by a number of people, and should not have been- she wasn't even attacking Kenneth directly, just urging caution, and people went nuts. Even if Kenneth had been on the level, one poster ought to be able to offer a dissenting opinion without incurring the wrath of those who disagree, but that is not what happened here.

LOL See, still not alert enough to get that!! Our DD had her 18th birthday party last night. It ended at almost three in the morning. I am WAY too old to be up that late without massive amounts of coffee in the morning.......and possibly throughout the day!!

Agreed.

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I felt kinda bad about not contributing...

But it always bugs me when people post about needing help and then come up with umptyzillion excuses why this, that, and the other thing won't work.

There have been a couple people like that on another group I frequent (not related in the slightest). I've sent them bits here and there, but always got the feeling my money was going into a giant, sucking black hole and did nary a bit of good. These people weren't scammers, just the type who couldn't/wouldn't do what it took to get back on their feet. People would write post after well-thought-out post offering solutions and great advice, but oh no, that wouldn't work for whatever reason.

There have been times I have asked for help with a problem (never financial), been given good advice, and felt even worse after if I couldn't actually use the suggestions. If you're not prepared to actually take the advice you solicit, don't ask!

I don't help people because I want recognition or even thanks -- but I sure do want to make sure it actually helps someone get back up on their feet instead of just extending their time before falling down again.

BearCreekFarm
..I don't think I've said anything to contradict your basic opinions about Ken or Ken's behavior. If you see something I said that seemingly contradicts your opinion about Ken and his behavior ..I didn't mean it that way.

My 'stand' is that at least one person specifically told me he wouldn't defend me earlier on in the thread ..because doing so would go against popular opinion. But then ..while that person deliberately refrained from speaking out about Ken before-the-fact ..that same person didn't hesitate to condemn Ken after-the-fact. I believe that it can be a form of hypocrisy if a person only cares to say the popular things. As I've already suggested to QBVII ..If a person only cares to 'go-with-the-flow' of popular opinion ..then isn't that the definition of a "sheeple"?

Anyway ..Not arguing with you BCF ..just offering my opinion! I guess that since I am the type of person who isn't afraid to speak his mind irregardless of whether it'll go against popular opinion ..then perhaps I unfairly expect others to have the same type of integrity. I think your post was very well phrased ..and it certainly gives me substance to 'ponder' upon.

There's no hypocrisy; there is someone who apparently knew it wouldn't do any good.

Hypocrisy would mean they were pretending to go along with the crowd. Staying off the thread doesn't imply that.

They were silent in the face of overwheming opposition - that is not hypocrisy.

Besides that, why is this thread turning into a discussion about someone's "hypocrisy" for not stepping up to be slammed and piled on when the real issue here is a poster who has basically ripped-off folks and made out like a bandit? To the tune of over $500? And you're worried about someone's possible "hypocrisy?"

There's bigger issues here, I'm afraid...

QBVII & Boleyz:

1. Before you two get your Fruit of the Looms in a wad it was in no way sinister. Discussion on the Moderator Board was it appeared there were others besides Kenneth and Star who were partners posting separate. Someone used you two as a potential example based on some of your banter back and forth. Went no further than that.

2. Please PM me with the name of the one who brought it to your attention. What is said on the Mod Board is with the specific understanding that what happens there, stay there. That is why it is not public access, so those allowed access can freely speak their minds. Looks like one of the moderators needs a talking to by the board.

3. Don't make the assumption moderators follow every thread, much less every posting against it. We work more through management by exception when potential problems are brought to our attention.

4. When someone is banned or suspected it is normally a group consensus and not arbitrary or capricious. Typically there is a warning before action taken.

Qwispea-


My point was not that I did not speak up because I was afraid of being tarred and feathered, but rather, that it would have been pointless to do so because too many people already had their minds made up. And, knowing what the reaction would be, I just figured it wasn't worth the hassle, and who cares, anyway? I made up my own mind and was happy with my decision. At the same time, I applaud the efforts of those who did contribute out of the kindness of their hearts- they did not know it was a scam, and they cared enough about others to try to help, and that is commendable. I'm just sorry to see it turn out badly.

As for speaking out in general- that is something I have never been afraid to do, lol. I am very opinionated and that has not always endeared me to the forum at large. But, I say what I believe and I don't worry about my popularity. I still gain a lot from the forum and I hope that others can benefit from an account of my experiences.

Believe me ..I am in no way "worried" about someone's alleged hypocrisy. I just see where this discussion went from one extreme over to the other extreme.
On the one hand we had a 'group' mentality where almost everybody hesitated to speak out against Ken because it would be going against popular opinion. On the other hand we now seem to have a 'group' mentality where speaking in support of Ken seems to be going against popular opinion.

Seems to me that one of the reason's I'm enjoying HT less and less ..is that people do not speak their minds often enough if it goes against popular opinion. As we've witnessed ..many people suspected Ken right from the beginning.
I do fully understand the 'group' mentality ..and the hesitation to go against popular opinion. But if a majority of those who suspected Ken from the beginning had spoken out ..perhaps it could have saved a lot of people from making monetary contributions. Might have helped save a lot of heartache too.

But what do I know??? As I said in a previous post ..maybe I unfairly expect others to have the same 'intestinal fortitude' as I do when it comes to going agaisnt popular opinion.
I place no judgemental fault upon anybody here ..as I will not refrain from talking to anybody based solely upon their decisions or opinions in this matter with Ken. However ..I currently still believe that to openly condemn someone after-the-fact when one was unwilling to go against the flow before-the-fact ..suggests a 'sheeple' mentality. If I'm wrong ..well ..it certainly won't be the first time for me. Not sure about you though!

It may be a shame that a lot of folks gave Kenneth help and then were disappointed that he might not be the sort of person they'd hoped he'd be.

And maybe he's not the person most in need of help right now on this forum, or maybe he is but he's not as good at making big or lasting changes in his life when he's given help.

I personally think that he could probably do more to help himself - but that's just my view of it. I still think that anyone who gave $$ and kept his lights on for a few more days, put some food on his family's table, or even just ended up buying him a beer to drink as he watches his trailer get towed away did the man and his family a great kindness.

It might not make them any better or smarter about how they handle their lives or how they do or do not express gratitude for help, but it made part of the world a little bit better for a while. I honestly don't believe that anyone can be the recipient of such an outpouring of kindness without it touching them deeply and having it forever stand as a moment of importance in their lives.

The kindness expressed toward Kenneth, in money, ideas, and even just in the extention of friendship is bound to linger with him - as is the bitterness of harsh words, perceived insult, and poor choices made. He's going to go forward with a lot of things to think about.

I do really believe that he's going to end up earning every dollar sent to him as thoughts, regrets, "what if's", and the memory of the kindness of strangers come to mind in the days, weeks, and years to come.

I'm glad I don't have to pay a price that big for lessons learned (or not yet learned). I wouldn't choose to walk that sort of path in life.

I do still wonder how much of the path he's chosen for himself, and how much was just stuff that happened - but mostly I just really feel sorry for anyone walking that kind of path, no matter how they ended up there.

Lynda

I totally disagree that this thread has become anything like people not expressing support for Kenneth - there have been numerous posts, all thru this thread, about how people STILL wish him the best, will continue to pray for him. They may not be posting right at this moment, perhaps for the past hour; but you must be joking to even suggest that this thread has totally turned into what you're describing. No way, all anyone has to do is go back and read since this thing blew up.....goodness, some people even suggested that financial contributions should continue to flow in.

Also it's been posted that Kenneth still needs help with his porch and other matters.

Ok--I spoke up for caution on the original shtf thread and it tweren't popular to say the least. Can I say "told you so" now? Nah, better get the laundry done.

We're all adults. We're capable of making up our own minds. The information was there for anyone who wished to delve.

lgslgs

you really expressed my feelings in your post. i have been watching this thread every day. as i live in kenneth's area of the country, i was ready to make myself available if the cottage work was to happen.

we each live with our choices in life, many of us would change things if we could. as we can't, most of must move forward hoping to do a better job in the future. some never learn and continue on their own path whether it is good for them or not. but either way it is still a choice each time.

kenneth sold himself short i believe. perhaps he loses the mobile home - people stood ready to help him with shelter, there was an offer of another mobile home, people offered endless suggestions that surely would have improved his family's lives.

for the sake of money, he denied himself and his family the ability to a more long term solution.

if i were to guess, his day today is far worse than most might imagine and he knows he did it to himself. karma exists...............

Yes nodak ...YOU can. You spoke up almost right from the beginning.

BTW: I'm doing laundry too. Am I the only man hee that does laundry?

Why would they need to pay cash? There are many lenders that'd do a loan on the land. You'd get paid regardless.

I'm curious why with that land and especially the climate there, you aren't growing your own food? I understand your medical problems but you have a 12 year old daughter that could tend quite a bit around there, including chickens and rabbits, especially being homeschooled and at home all the time. If you did that, you would have virtually no food expense at all and maybe even bring in a bit of income.

Looks like we had long enough to hash this issue over....and over....and over...and over again. I'm considering deleting this entire thread as well as the other Ken/SHTF thread in a few days. Perhaps I'll move them to GC. Please PM me if you believe that there is any positive, constructive reason to leave these two threads at the Homesteading Questions forum.

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This is the government the Founding Fathers warned us about.....