What do you think the future looks like?
 

I am asking in terms of lifestyle, jobs, ect. With costs of everything, wages not going up jobs moving overseas, do you think it will come to people growing and making more things to sell themselves?

Also, will it turn around that people won't give in to all the technology, new cars, new houses, ect.

I see it as people hardly getting by! It seems to been a fantasy world for so long, but it now about to become like depression years! Here we are trying to downscale those monthly bills, live off the land, ect.

What are your thoughts? Will bartering come back like before?

Elite and serfs.
And lots of people holding worthless paper,be they FRNs or stocks,looking at their lifes labor and FINALLY realizing its just paper and promises afterall.

BooBoo<----Do you know where your gold is?

farmwife, I agree with you. Most people are bearly getting by. Not enough money to pay bills.Being frugal is a way of life.

I am asking in terms of lifestyle, jobs, ect. With costs of everything, wages not going up jobs moving overseas, do you think it will come to people growing and making more things to sell themselves?

I see it already that people do much more for themselves in selling themselves in some fashion, but not necessarily in growing that much or even making things themselves. Cheap labor costs don't allow for enough profit to do that. Eventually the overseas populace that becomes wealthier will demand products of what people make here. I suspect it will be more travel/tourism here and them buying recreational properties a lot. Real estate will continue to be big business to those foreigners gainining from the export economy

Also, will it turn around that people won't give in to all the technology, new cars, new houses, ect.

that won't ever happen. New inventions area fact of life. New technology will always be in demand. New ways of thinking might continue to develop as raw resources dwinde.

I see it as people hardly getting by! It seems to been a fantasy world for so long, but it now about to become like depression years! Here we are trying to downscale those monthly bills, live off the land, ect.


I can't imagine city populace all 'living off the land'. Land will continue to be scarce and continue to be developed. Monthly bills will continue to be earmarked according to supply and demand.

What are your thoughts? Will bartering come back like before?

Bartering won't be the order of the day. Medium of excange will probably strengthen according to whatever nation's strong currency prevails. The U.S. dollar will fluctuate according to what it's really worth and backed by it's people as any nation has for centuries. :shrug:

Was backed by gold or silver here until recently.
Now just backed by promises and reserve currency status,nothing more.

History shows currency backed by promises,ie:Fiat currency,will fail.

BooBoo

No I don't think so.

Look at any 3rd world country to see your kids future!

Ok, this is going to sound weird but if anyone would understand, the folks here would: I wish everything would just "reset"...ya know, the economy, the way we live, etc. I wish it would just do it and get it over with so we can start rebuiding things (figuratively speaking). I don't wish bad on anyone but it seems like we're in for some hard times and I wish it would just do it's thing so we can then move on...does that make any sense to anyone other than me? :shrug:
--f.g.

Well when the ----- hits the fan, I will get up and do the same things I do today in preparation for tomorrow...and the market for my goods may very well improve...and those who have laughed and naysayed about my lifestyle will pay double or starve... :shrug: I cant wait to watch the little nasties squirm w/o their sugar fix.... I may end up shacking up w/ pyrnad's family or in Lexington....but if the neighbor isnt gone...well let your imagination go....think hungry pigs and hungry people :) Either location :rolleyes:

Sorry just had enough....let the panty(s) (wastes) run... :grump:

Unfortunately...I only see things getting worse. :( I hate to have such a dreary outlook...but the way things are going doesn't look good. I just saw that Japan and the EU banned the import of our farmers rice because it was contaminated by GMO's. I also saw a terrible news article about how the lack of healthcare in this country was going to lead to a very different health scenario for all us 10 or 15 years down the road. I don't know what the answer is. :shrug: JMOHO

I've just started reading a very interesting book about what the future might end up looking like. It's called The Long Emergency, and it's written by James Howard Kunstler. His predictions for the future aren't very bright. He says that things are going to go downhill for us all, mostly because of our heavy dependence on fossil fuels. It's not just because of the oil running out, but before it runs out it'll get so expensive that it'll cause other things to get more expensive. Sound familiar?
He also predicted that the American lifestyle will have to change radically. Our system of living in suburbs and depending on shipping food and other merchandise thousands of miles will have to change because there won't be enough fossil fuel to do it(or because it will be too expensive to do it :nono: ). It's shaping up to be a good read, and I recognize many of the same things I(and many other people) have been saying for years in there. ;)

What I see is the jobs that we hold as traditional will move overseas, leading to a glut of workers. The factory, industrial chemical facility, and the support industries will decline dramatically from the heyday in the 70s and 80s. I live in a highly industrialized area in south Louisiana and I see those plants closing due to age and inefficiency in the next 20 years. These folks that are clogging the streets of the nearby cities will be forced to take lower paying jobs or move.

If you look even further, say 30-50 years into the future, I see three major industries: financial, healthcare, and computers. People will have SOME money. People will NEED healthcare. And people will work from their computers.

To answer you, I think that people would be forced to either (A) grow food themselves, or (B) spend more for what they want. I think (B) will win out because people are too lazy to do it for themselves. Think of the upper middle class tennis moms driving up in their Lexus and pulling hornworms off of tomato plants. That gets me laughing.

I was all prepared to write the exact same thing and you saved me the trouble. Those boys have been men for over a dozen years, they should be treated like men. Being a man can be tough, but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

Ouch.
--f.g.

Now, maybe it is my age, but I have a much more positive view of the future. I think technologies are going to continue to advance. I'm already awed at the amount of information available at my fingertips... and it just keeps growing! Amazing.

I think we also forget, in our angst, that there are jobs today that didn't exist 10 years ago.. from the lowly (coffee baristas) to people who manage the high tech roasters that make the coffee, to the computer geeks who keep track of the tons of coffee as they move from South America to the USA, to the coffee company and out the door to the little corner barista. In Vermont we have new recycling facilities which didn't exist 10 years ago. We have people manufacturing equipment for sports we had just barely started hearing about 10 years ago (snowboarding) which spawned a whole new set of styles and design initiatives.

In my town we have no less than three sophisticated spas... not my cup of tea, but between them they employ over 100 people, some of the positions which require licensing pay over $20/hour, and attract customers from all over the world.

In 10 years people will be employed in jobs we aren't even aware of a need for yet.

Will there be a sudden revival in "back to the land" and "grow your own?" The home garden industry is a multi-billion dollar business. One of the largest mail order houses in the industry is based in Vermont... started out as a little catalog of hard to find high quality gardening tools and has become a powerhouse of a lifestyle company. As England discovered in the early days of WWII, it doesn't take much to turn flowers into onions and potatoes if necessity dictates.

But thus far, necessity doesn't dictate.

There will always be a demand for people who are creative, ambitious, flexible, and who constantly strive to update their skill sets. But even in the most difficult of times there is always opportunties for those who seek them.

Remember... Este Lauder, a company which sold cosmetics, launched in the heart of the Great Depression. And thrived. Nothing is impossible.

We've exceeded the maximum carrying capacity of this planet for human life. There will be a population correction. It could be due to war, or famine, or weather wackyness, or pandemics, but something is going to break, and soon.

To get to a sustainable population on the planet would require that 1 out of 3 people currently living, die. One can only hope that instead a smaller fraction die in the short term and the birth rate drops, so that the remaining correction is slower and less painful, for a 'soft' landing at a proper population.

I think I will be having to SSS humans because crime will become more common if things go the direction I believe they will. I also believe we will do better than most city slickers because their money will lose value and they have very little skills to actually survive on. I am thankful for where I live and the ability to learn now before its necessary and if things turn out good then at least I still had fun learning

Do you ever travel to Wyoming? or Montana? Did you know that sq footage wise.. if every person alive right now was given a sq foot to stand on, we could put everyone within the city limits of Jacksonville florida.. Not just US citizens but im talking global. This world isn't overpopulated. The only strain is on intelligence, not on the amount of space. Priorities should change but the population shrinking wont solve anything.

RR, at your boys ages, they would not be living at home lol. Its more stress and tension than you should have to be dealing with.

The future As I see it
 

First the idea of everyone going back to the land is a fairy tale. There is not enough land that is good enough to do the homesteading thing. It would take about five good usable acres for a family of four. I know all the people that say different. Hey I have been living the homesteading life for forty years, its hard work, some years you do fine sometimes weather and other unforseen things do the whole thing in. Lots of people can do fairly well with it but it is not the answer.
Our world is designed for just so many people, and we are reaching the limit and reaching it fast. Too many people and and set amount of resourses, The results is Copper at $3.60 a lb. gold 600 plus an oz, oil at 70 plus, and if we cut back and do not use as much the China will buy what ever we do not want.
Now the houseing market getting soft, heck its started down a cliff, its over the edge and I don't think anything will slow down the fall. That starts the jobs in related fields drying up. Then it will spread to other fields.
In 1999 I kinda hoped that the computers would fail and we would have a chance to restart our society and lifestiles. It did not happen.
Now its going to happen and it will be bad. I will not have to figure it out. I have made as much arrangements as I can for the wife but sorry but my health will enable me to survive long enough to see it through. So it is up to all of you.
All of us the rich , middle class, the poor, everyone will have it hard this time. We are getting rid of everything we do not use, then converting that money to staples, and then precious metals. Do not hold large amounts of money as it daily gets worth less and less. You can tell the worth of your paper dollars by checking the price of precious metals.
We have our homestead and there fore are ahead of some behind others, we have the skills. Today I worked on building two doors to close off the third bay of the storage barn, have to secure the stuff we have in there. The wife was putting sideing on the new dog house for the dogs. We still have to build two wood sheds, and a new spring house. That we will have done by the end of September.

finishing the idea
 

Some how I got cut off on the post so here is the finish.
Get your self out of debt, work two jobs sell everything you don't need. Cut off the satalite, cable, cell phone, turn off the lights get rid of the suv do it now. And best of luck.

I'm with Wind in her Hair. MOST people aren't going down the tubes. Quit watching television and listening to politician's organic fertilizers. Talk to your neighbors and friends. MOST people are working.

Yeah, a lot of people are whining, but like WIHH said, there's a lot of people driving nice cars and going to work in all those offices and shops every day.

I wish the 'when the s--t hits the fan' Chicken Little folks would spend as much time looking for positive things to post about.

My positive observations for today--
My sons are both adults, married, employed, and self supporting. My grandson is a delightful, well mannered, 2 1/2 year old. Hubby is self employed. I'm self employed. Our only debt is my truck and a rental property that will pay for itself in short order.

All my residential property renters have jobs. I don't even have to advertise when someone moves out (which is rarely) because there are lots of folks looking for nice rental property. It doesn't take long to find someone with a job who wants to live in one of my houses and pay rent.

Future? Who knows, and who cares? Take care of today, take care of your family, be financially responsible. NONE of us can even begin to see the future, we only project images from what we have seen and heard. We can only live NOW.

When we lived in Indonesia, the native people were poor by American standards, but happy. What I see now is that Americans are rich by the standards of the rest of the world, but unhappy and predicting gloom and doom. So unfortunate! What a waste of time, talent, and energy.

Climbing down from my soapbox now. :)

Very much in agreement! If all you do is focus on the bad you won't be able to make good.

Govt is legeslating out that type of lifestyle. Everyone should have an 8 hour factory job, have an apt or small house, be hooked up to sewer & water, and not do anything with their lives.

This makes mid-level govt types all warm & fuzzy. Raising critters, having a few acres to do your own thing on, controling plant growth, controling varmits that hurt livestock - all that is not understood any more by mid-level govt types, and thus it must be regulated. They have regulated everything else.

So, going to be a tough row to hoe long-term.

I won't say any more, it just gets me wound up. ;)

--->Paul

Space isn't the problem. The problem is energy. We are supporting all these billions of people using stores of fossil fuel that won't be available indefinitely. Some people think that some unkown source of energy will appear from somewhere sometime in the future to rescue us when the fossil fuels run out(or become too expensive to be practical), but I don't see that as a good "plan" to depend on for our future survival. :shrug:

EEEEEKKKKKK!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Let me tell you about a family member.Living the good life,all of the American dream.Big money management job,BIG house,toys everywhere.Vacation condo in Hawaii.They lived for today.

Right up til 2 years ago

He has found minimum pay work or 10.00 /hour work,that wont begin to pay the bills.
Not much work for a former middle weight manager from Caterpillar.
401K,gone.
Started a business,its failing.
They are going BK.

Yep,live for today,when tomorrow comes....you can go BK and lose it all.As this family is losing the American dream.

Another true fact.The chasm between the haves and the have nots has NEVER been bigger in America than right now.

Another fact,this is the first generation in American HISTORY to have a lower standard of living than the one before it.

Ignore it at your peril.

The jobs being lost in America are NOT being replaced with equally well paying jobs,and they DONT include health insurance.

But ignore all that.And ignore the global economy,because you now compete with peasants.Not everyone can be a Dr,lawyer,we just need only so many of them.Where does that leave the rest?

Competing on a global scale with peasants.With computer degrees,engineering degrees,nursing degrees,all coming here to compete with you.Or being outsourced,like your xrays being read,via internet,by Drs. in India.Nobodies job is secure,and no amount of education can protect you from the Globalists.

Open borders,disasterous immigration policies,all on the back of the middle class.
Remember the middle class???Thats where the transfer of wealth is coming from,to the wealthy.Go back to the economic divide between rich and poor,its fueled by the elimination of the middle class.

BooBoo

Somehow Im making good while not pretending all is rosy,in fact,it gives me a leg up to be informed of future trends.

BooBoo

I never thought it was rosy. I'm lucky. If I have to walk away from everything we still have income. If it gets worse, I'll say goodby. As far as trends go I've got some really good advice that we trust.

I've read a few responses...

All I think is what does God say?

We already walk under the number of the name of the AntiChrist - our Social Security number, without which we cannot buy or sell except for a few limited transactions. Really though, how would we hold a job without it? How could we pay our taxes without referencing our Soc Sec number? How can we keep a farm without paying taxes?

I don't really have any answers myself, except to live as I desire and continue to call out to God to know His mind for me. I know that He lives and He speaks, I have heard Him. So... what I have is... dear Lord, please show me Your desires and shape my heart to be able to hear and to obey You when You speak.

~ Carol

I'm not pretending that it's all rosey. I'm not just living for today like your family member in Hawaii. I'm in the country, have a garden, but I don't have big debt, we don't have credit card debt at all, etc.

What I'm saying is that NOBODY has a crystal ball, and it's a waste of time to predict global/national/weather issues or events.

Heck, just a couple of weeks ago we were told that gasoline prices would hit $4.00 by the end of the year, now we are being told that gasoline prices will be down to $2.00 by Thanksgiving. So much for prognostication.

Wow, u folks have a pretty dismal out look of your friends and neighbors. The human race is all about adaption. We have been doing it for centuries. As time go by, we will adapt to our needs. New markets will open, old ones will close and life will continue pretty much unchanged in ones own life time. The world is not over populated, we have reliable food sources, and city dwellers are not all going to shrink up and die. City dwellers are what makes it possible for farmers like me to make a living. They create a demand for something and I do my part to fufill the supply, it's real simple. Life will go on and I believe the human race will prosper as we always have.

Great advice exactly what I was planning on cept the work two jobs part I have no debt "oh" yeah in short I think the future looks very, very, bleak for us and our late great nation.

me to, When I am home with my family and working on homestead projects I will not be dwelling so much on Gloom and doom but you better believe I will be staying informed and making hard decisions as the need may arise.

The under ground economy is worth trillions plenty of folks have found a way to live outside the box the machine would have us in. The farm taxes is a toughfer one I guess people in OK since they dont have property taxes would have a better shot at that one. I am sure their are other countries out there with out property taxes also.

That is an awfully rosy outlook I wonder what the people who lived with millions of passenger pigeons and buffalo in America 200 years ago would think about things today? sure we may not see a whole lot of change in our lifetimes (I have a feeling I will see way to much) but the longer term trends look pretty bleak to me. There are times when various peoples did not prosper witness the down fall of many past civilizations they fell for various reasons climate, change politics and more, many of them destroyed their top soil and enviroment our civilization will not be any different except now it is pretty global so I only hope a few pockets of traditional and self sufficient folks can survive unmolested someplace until the vast and terrible machine we have created in our society crashes and burns and the former can re populate the earth.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Every day I wake up breathing is a good day.

I don't think things are that bad and I just got off a really bad financial stretch. I have income from a few sources and it averages out to $15/hour. We live nicely. I have satellite, internet, a cell phone, a land line. I can have Starbucks a few times a week if I want and have a bit to do this and that. I have shifted from 1-3 kids living at home during this time. I do help out the kids not at home (they are in college) when I can.

Man, I'm about to make myself out to be old, but it seems that younger people just aren't willing to work for what they get. They want to start out with at least what their parents have and figure if they can't get it, there's something wrong with the economy.

My very first apartment was furnished in milk crates and cast offs. I had like two plates and a few pieces of silverware. I drove a junky VW that often needed repairs and there were times I hit mom up for food. I didn't have all the nice stuff, but I was independent...mostly. As the years passed and both my responsibility increased and my earning power, I had to ask for help less and less. At times, my needs outweighed my skills, so I went back to school to increase my earning power.

I'm satisfied with my life right now. If I want more, then I'd better get out there and make some more money. If I don't want to work more, I could cut back in many different ways.

As a CNA, my earnings are limited. If I wanted too, I could go back to school and get my LPN or RN. Financial aid would pay, or I can get tuition reimbursement where I work, particularly if I agree to work for them when I'm done. I haven't done it, but I'm thinking about it. There will be no shortage of jobs in healthcare. Not in the next 20-30 years anyways. I expect my current lowly CNA job will continue to grow and remain in high demand, even if the wages aren't spectacular, but then the work is not really skilled labor.

My biggest concern about the future is the stock market. There is so much retirement money locked up there and that is how we gauge our economy. Remember, we have a "market based" economy. As those baby boomers age and withdraw funds, there is no way to replace it. Lord knows the companies don't actually have concrete value to match their stock, so they will find other "imaginary" ways to produce "income".

You can now put like $15K a year in a 401K. They are trying to keep that market boosted on the backs of the poor schmucks like me and you. I'm not going for it. Yeah, the tax benefits seem nice, but I'd rather have my money in a chunk of real estate or gold or anything else that is REAL.

I think that many will watch their retirement dwindle due to markets and it will get rough. I also think that there will always be people who adapt, who are willing to work for what they want and who will find a way to do so. I've had good times and bad times. I've always worked my way through the bad times and known that the good times were not going to last forever.

Jena

One thing is healthcare jobs can evaporate in a heartbeat.
It isnt a nursing shortage,its a shortage of nurses who will work.

In a good economy,nurses,predominately female,will stay home as hubby works.When hubby loses job,back into market they come.

Another one.They can change how bills are paid.When reagan went from pay for service to DRG payment system,healthcare money dried up overnight.If you werent staff,you werent going to be.Nurses flocked into hospitals,there wasnt a shortage,there was a glut.

Next is foriegn nurses.The latest proposal is if you have a license from anywhere in the world,the USA will accept it,NO state board licensure needed.

How about outsourcing care to India or wherever.
Latest trend? Your insurance sends you OUT OF COUNTRY for surgeries.
Its cheaper to fly you to India than treat you here,so out of country you go.

Jena,you would to will to get your Rn.Dont waste your time with Lpn/LVN,Ive been corpseman,lvn and Rn.Go straight to Rn.The money and opportunity far greater as Rn.

We,at our age,are probably going to escape the monumental changes coming in health care.
But even healthcare will face worldwide competition,and it wont be to our benefit in the labor market.

And for folks who think low wages mean cheap goods,it also means a lower GDP,and folks with lower wages have less to spend,meaning YOUR income decreases too.

Stock market is smoke and mirrors.Im glad its good for some folks NOW.It crashed before,and thanks to derivatives,is the shakiest house of cards ever.
For folks who blindly 'invest' without ANY understanding of what it really is,thats foolishness to the extreme with your retirement.
Its a game for the truly hugely wealthy and inside players,the market makers,and that aint you or me.When it comes crashing down,like Rockefeller before,those in the know escape with all the funds.Those to be raped,the uninformed masses,lose it all.History says so,unless you are a connected financial wizard,highly educated and in the loop,you will be slaughtered.The market is a house of cards.

Finally,for those who think the economy is so strong,one measure,those with healthcare benefits,have been getting slaughtered.The numbers dont lie.
Our standard of living IS declining.
Might not be you or me,but MILLIONS have lost healthcare benefits in this decade.MILLIONS.


BooBoo

I guess I'm the only one eagerly awaiting peak oil and the pop of the globalization balloon that will follow.

When our trusty transport system becomes too expensive to sustain itself, we will be forced to live in a much smaller "world". It will bring the watchmaker and the baker etc back into our own communities.

I believe the key to your survival "no matter what comes" is to have education and skills in some of the practical day-to-day needs - be the local business that globalization pushed out. Each community will still NEED shoes...if you can make them cheaper than China can ship... all I can say is bless that day!

Look at history, there has always been a portion of the population predicting doom. Y2K was the last big doom. Yes we do have depression eras, rationing in WWII, gas crisis, etc. Most of us weather thru fine. When we have to, we can make do. Americans are spoiled, look at New Orleans still wanting a hand out. How many of those people were already geting assistance before the storm? A "don't worry, the gov't will provide" attitude. And they have been taken care of. Those of us with the smarts, planning and drive will take care of ourselves. Besides Bibically we are in the last days, the rapture is pending. It will look like a global catastrophe as graves will open, live saints bodies will be changed and caught up to heaven, leaving dead bodies all around. Then will the world unite and have a brief time of prosperity before the beast arrives. So doom away.