What do you think the future looks like?

What do you think the future looks like?

A third world country - coming soon to a neighborhood near You!

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"the more consciousness, the more intense the despair"
Egalitarian: Of, believing in, or characterized by the doctrine of political and social equality. i.e. the opposite of Republican

(I am asking in terms of lifestyle, jobs, ect. With costs of everything, wages not going up jobs moving overseas, do you think it will come to people growing and making more things to sell themselves?)

We make our soaps, cleaners, garden, fruit trees, herbs, milk our goats, get eggs fresh each day, I make our clothes, quilts, curtains, whatever we need. We shop at yard sales and get some good deals. Not everyone knows how to can and many live in places where they can't garden or own animals.
Not everyone can afford to live the country life. Taxes keep going up. I could go forever on the changes that continue to make this life impossible for some. Life is full of change however and we can't stop it no matter how hard we may want to.

(Also, will it turn around that people won't give in to all the technology, new cars, new houses, ect.)

I think as long as many people can afford the technology, new cars, new houses, ect. that they'll continue to buy them. Our car and truck are paid for, we won't buy new ones. Making repairs is still cheaper than new car cost.

(I see it as people hardly getting by! It seems to been a fantasy world for so long, but it now about to become like depression years! Here we are trying to downscale those monthly bills, live off the land, ect.)

We have cut everything we can. I do believe things will get worse. They keep saying that unemployment is down. I don't buy that! They are counting the people actually drawing unemployment checks, there are many others without jobs.

(What are your thoughts? Will bartering come back like before?)

I think it may well make a comeback. When times get hard, people do what they have to. We do that already. We recently traded a stock trailer in exchange for the guy working for us here on the farm.

Turtlehead,
Yes, of course, it takes fossil fuel to build solar energy equipment, but it takes fuel to drill, pump, transport and burn the fossil fuel for gasoline and electricity. It takes fuel to dig, transport coal to produce the electricity.

I live near, too near, a railroad track, at least 4 train loads of coal come by my home every day - then the empties go back. The machine that digs this coal looks like a small city, and the dump trucks that move it from the digger to the train are monsters. Think of the fuel needed for that and it is a constant. It will never end.

I also live near, too near, a crude oil place that transports the crude from the wellhead to the pipeline. Those trucks run 24/7 and there are about 40 of them. This operation is a small one, comparatively speaking. Think of the fuel needed for that. Then to refine the oil, transport it back to the service stations or generating plants.

So when you are talking of the fuel needed to produce solar equipment, it would seem that it might not need any more - or as much - as it does to produce energy the way we now do. There would be maintenance and I assume batteries need replace from time to time, but it doesn't seem like a monster that must constantly be fed by oil or coal as is our present method of producing power.

Yes, the big oil companies got a goodly chunk of taxpayer dollars to develop alternative energy. That sounds a bit like the fox and the henhouse. What exactly would be their incentive to get this going in a timely manner. Somehow, I just don't expect them to rush out there and begin making solar panels for home use and get them available at a reasonable cost in the near future. That is asking too much of human (corporate nature).

BP, and the PResident's plan seems to be grow corn enough to sustain our needs. I just don't see that happening, if it does, somehow that doesn't seem like the best way to go.

A lot of people seem to overlook that "little detail" about how much energy is needed to get the fossil fuel that we use. Free energy is something that inventors are always trying to develop. Maybe some day, someone will succeed.

I do have some thoughts on biofuels; http://rickd2008.proboards101.com/in...3901317&page=1 Let me know what you think.

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“When I think of what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think, there are no little things.” -Bruce Barton

Socially/Economically: More crime and poverty. Virtual elimination of the middle class. We'll mainly have two classes. The truly needy and the trulygreedy. More people will buy a subscription to Countryside Magazine/Mother Earth News. That's to say I think more will make a move toward self reliance out of necessity. And, i think with less disposable income, bartering will comeback. Best thing to do, I think, would be to find out what your neighbors aren't producing (soap, beer, whiskey, candles, etc.,) if you produce it, you have something to barter with.

IMHO, I see it as a good thing. I look forward to an end of the fantasy world. We know it's coming. The system as it is is insustainable. Sure' it'll be rough for awhile. But, the only thing you can do is get ready.

I agree.

And what will they barter with? DVD players and fancy purses?

Originally Posted by Phalynx
If there is some world crisis or the US economy tanks, gold or silver will do you no good. Food and water will be what everyone barters for.


Yep,Im still looking for a modern economic/political collapse where gold and silver didnt spend.
Let me know when you find one.

Let me see you barter your taxes away.

As for food,it gets real CHEAP in a depression.
Only in famine does food not trade for gold or silver.

I'd be very interested where you could SHOW ME where the above hasnt been true.
I can show you a lot where it is true.

BooBoo

There is not a corporation anywhere doing anything for our well being. Quite the contrary.

There is a possibility we are talking about two different scenarios.

Some are just talking about a depression - in that case, gold could be a very handy thing to have. Or in a super inflation situation - also.

My thoughts are along the line of 'the day after' scenario. In the terms of a horrible natural disaster, a man made disaster, or the installation of a government dictator. In those cases, I don't see gold being worth much, unless you could get it - and you - out of the country, to places it might be worth something.

As for using it for taxes - it depends on the situation. Gold might not be legal tender for taxes. We do have a government that makes its rules as it goes along. I don't know that I see the government taking gold for taxes. Real question, because I don't know. Does it take gold now in payment?

I still say, I would not sell my food for gold in catastrophic situation.

But we have gotten off topic - I apologize. I tend to just follow a thread where it goes rather than staying on topic.

There's one other problem with solar equipment. They still haven't been able to produce any solar panels which produce more(or even as much) energy than it took to manufacture them. So, each time they manufacture a solar panel, they are in effect, wasting the energy they use to make them. If it takes X amount of energy to manufacture each panel and each panel produces 75% of X(or something less), we're looking at a losing game if we keep playing it that way. Every panel we make, we're throwing away energy.

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That's pretty cynical of you. Whatta ya think, that corporations are in it for the money?

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"I don't want everyone to like me; I should think less of myself if some people did."
— Henry James

..............First , it is my understanding that should we have either a Pandemic or a dirty nuke attack the Feds will be controlling the movement of a previously free populas so you just won't beable to load up the travel trailer and "escape"!!! Next , the feds are also going to prevent citizens from accessing their safety deposit boxes and removing all those diamonds and gold your mutha left you that was conveniently left off the Assets list when the will was probated .
..............So , what happens , Even IF you've acquired 500 pounds of pure gold and you want to move some place else you've got somewhat of a Problem with putting that much Bullion in the truck of your 2000 Jetta . I'm being facetous here but Gold gets very heavy , very quick . fordy...

OK, so what you are saying is that the individual solar panel takes X amount of energy to manufacture. If that solar panel lasts, say 10 years, it will never produce as much energy as it took to manufacture it?

I don't want to misunderstand.

ForDeuce - Come on now. You know what the poster was saying.

How about some documentation of this claim? IMHO it sounds ridiclious.

Why do people fear gold so much ?

Gold is not a religion, but honest money.

Will government take gold for taxes ? What kind of question is that ? If you have gold, you will always be able to trade it for whatever paper fiat you want. It has been a store of wealth for thousands of years, and contrary to the electronic money experiment... it will continue to be so. Despite govts. efforts to outlaw it, pass legal tender laws, steal it, depress it, short sell it, make it a tool of 'the terrorists and the devil himself'... it will still preserve wealth.

Gold has no guilt, no liability to anyone. It stands in front of the politicians whining about 'flexibility' and 'social reform'..it does not bend. An ounce of gold, is an ounce of gold. Period. Keep it, trade it, sell it, do what you wish... every fiat currency eventually reaches its true commodity value or fails. Right now a FRN is about 2 cents worth of ink and paper.

Bet against history if you like. Gold is insurance against the people of this world who will tax, depreciate, inflate, print, manipulate, supress, black box trade, legislate, intimidate, and point a gun in your face, to take what you have earned.

Let each man and woman make their own decision, and let history tell the tale. IF you believe in health insurance, car insurance, flood insurance, crop insurance, homeowners insurance, life insurance, religious insurance, fire insurance business insurance, property insurance.... why do you have trouble with 'money' insurance ?

Food spoils, property is taxed and immobile, cash is dilluted via printing and inflation, stocks are manipulated via black boxes, dilluted by options, and taxed as well...

You could make 'money out of anything'... invest in 2x4s or copper wire, or donuts, or tulip bulbs, or toilet paper, or gallons of water, or rasins, or nails, or whatevery you want. Now try to trade it somewhere.

Jump on a plane and go to Europe, go to the Middle East, go to Africa, go to Asia, go just about anywhere you like...and you will find that gold is indeed wealth, and you can exchange wealth for 'money' just about anywhere.

'money' is not wealth. For those who understand that, you have no questions about what role gold plays in wealth preservation.

Gold in hand. Put it in a hole and cover it up. Keep your trap shut.

You don't buy a loaf of breat with it. That is what money is for. You don't buy a Mt. Dew with it. That is what money is for. You don't buy a twinkie with it. That is what money is for. If you don't have any money, then you use your 'gold' insurance policy and exchange a little for money.

If you never have alot of money, then you probably don't need wealth preservation like gold. For those of the people fortunate enough to actually make more than they spend, and wish to preserve that purchasing power with little risk of loss... gold is wonderful insurance.

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Fordy-- I would consider myself lucky to be 'plagued' with the problems of owning 500 pounds of gold. Does not everybody own something of the same weight, and of less value ? An extra auto, a pile of records, on old tractor, some 'material' thing that someone left you that you just can't part with ? How much junk does the average person carry with them when they move?

Gold may not be for you... by no means to you have to buy it, accept it, spend it or praise it.

Just like religion, men and women have died for it for hundreds of years. It is divisive and stands in the way of ambitions of men and women. That is why so many fear it. Put an ounce in your and and see what it does to you. Feel the wealth that you posess. That is not another man's obligation or promise to pay you at a later date. It is honest money. Dug deep from the earth, a pure gift from nature... hard work that will exist long after you time here is finished. You then give it to whom ever you like. It seems so difficult, yet it is so easy.

You may stand on whatever soapbox you like and curse it until you are blue in the face. Gold could care less. It is still what it is, an ounce of gold. The value of honest wealth preservation is what you put on it.

Let the govts. of the world stamp their dollar values on it. Let them preserve their faces forever by stamping themselves on the coins. In the end, it means nothing to gold. Melt it, drop it in the sea for 100 years, drop it in a hole in the earth.

It has outlasted any man and any money.

Easy fix, don't put it into your safety deposit box. Serious gold bugs don't use them. Under two or three feet of earth most metal detactors can't find it; it would take ground penetrating radar.

100 ounces of gold at current spot is worth approximately $60,000 in federal reserve notes. Thats only a little over 8 troy lbs and even less in regular pounds.

Hogwash.

Show me facts on that.

Ok,2001 Jetta

When I have 3 million in gold????

However,64 ounces is 40 grand.....4 lbs.

''Safety' deposit box,thats hardly the case.Wouldnt put my assets in a bank box.

Bigger threat is gov theft of assets,and the pinheads who would support it(jealous sheeple would love that Im sure)

Can hear it now,its used by terrorists,sooooo....
We need it for the new money,sooo...
We need it to create jobs,sooo....
We need it for Everyone,you evil hoarder,soooo....

And the sheep who have none,boy,watch them want to sieze what you own.

The Banksters will get it if they can,ask Roosevelt about that.Took our gold and wouldnt let us redeem dollars for gold,but let FOREIGN banks redeem dollars for gold until 1971,guess that benefitted the powers that be quite nicely at the we the peoples expense.

The biggest terrorist threat,our own government.

Guess Im going to wind up a criminal.Like the 70% who didnt go for the last gold asset siezure.Blackmarket,thats for me.

And I will have food,nope,theyve siezed food in the past too .
If times are that tough,and you plan on being a 'Law abiding' person ,you are toast and a government pawn,no to that.At that point(and my age) I will have to die for freedom and put in all my chips on that hand.That is,if the government turns on We the People.

Not giving up my right to life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness without a fight against the traitors.My constitution gaurantees that,thats the law,I will live the law Im gauranteed as an American,and will fight the forces of tyranny,my responsibility as an American says I can do no less.
The tipping point for me,when they start seizing my assests,emminent domain has shown us its coming,they are putting the pieces in place.The other pieces,domestic terrorist classification,thats coming.As GWB says,you are for us or against us,best not forget what that means.

BooBoo