Propane delimma..

People who "change out" way too often will get themselves on the list of "Do not do business with"
Your reputation will be noted.

I know a couple of people who switch out nearly every year ..and they still have no problems in locating a better priced supplier to hook them up. One has switched 7 times in 8 years ..and actually switched back to the same company 3 times in those 8 years.
Personally I have leased tanks from 3 different companies during the past 13 years. Before last year ..I relied only upon my customer owned tank for the previous 5 years..so I doubt I'd have any trouble locating a supplier that'll hook me up if I should so desire. But ..if by some odd chance that all the propane suppliers decided to get 'stinky' at the same time ..I'd do away with the leased tank if I had to. Plus, I'd probably have very good grounds to have them investigated for 'collusion'.

Why wouldn't anyone think that a propane company might be in serious trouble if they refused to service a potential customer solely for arbitrary reasons? While I don't know the specific laws on it ..I would guess that it is probably illegal for a propane supplier to refuse propane to somebody simply because they seemingly bounce from one supplier to another from time to time. There must be laws over the industry that protects people from 'gouging' ..or protects people from being priced out of being able to afford heat in the winter. I believe that if I were in a situation where I could not afford the higher priced propane company ..an unethical propane company would be hard-pressed to force me to stick with them simply because they got together with other propane companies and had an 'unwritten' agreement amongst themselves to not service customers solely because they wanted a better price.
Everybody should well know that even the electricity companies and the natural gas companies have provisions where they cannot refuse service ..and they also have provisions where they make it more affordable toward those whose income cannot support the higher prices. In the propane situation ..if a person found a lower priced supplier and wanted to switch out ..it seems to me that it wouldn't matter if they switched out several times in one year or multiple years ..the propane company likely couldn not refuse to service them solely for that reason.

That's my view on it anyway ..does anybody have any information that differs?

Propane is actually extremely competitive around here. There are at least 10 suppliers to choose from ..and maybe more. The company I'm switching to told me they pre-purchased 375,000 gallons of propane for the coming heating season. I have to believe that all the suppliers pre-purchase their propane in huge quantities ..and then they depend upon a steady stream of customers in order to sell all that propane in order to earn their anticipated profit.

If an uncooperative propane supplier wants to label me with the reputation for being a customer that refuses to accept the absolute worse value around ..thats OK with me. Perhaps if a few others customers get the same reputation ..then eventually the uncooperative propane companies that gouge the consumer will take note and realize they will only lose customers because other companies will be more than happy to supply to those customers for the coming heating season.

I completely disagree with people who seem to imply that a customer should seriously consider remaining loyal with a supplier who gouges them. Not going to happen with me anyway!

Qwispea, I agree that you should have the option of buying from the company with the best price. I don't know of any specific law requiring/not requiring a company to service a customer. I would think it would be grounds for a lawsuit for discrimination if that was the sole reason for refusing service. However, they can say they are very busy and put you off and put you off on the service side. Most company's require deliveries to be made within 5 days of order placement. At least mine does. I think if I were you I'd just buy the second tank then purchase from whomever I wanted.

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For those who fought for it, Freedom holds a special flavor the protected will never know.

Is company sad Shell Gas?

This isn't really rocket science here...

If you lease your tank from one company you will have to buy your gas from that company.

If you own your own tank you can play the field and call around when you need to be filled. At any time you wish, you can ask about fixed price programs etc. They'll sell it on fixed contracts even if you own your own tank.

It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. Make a choice and go with it....

LOL ..I think if they "put off" a potential customer several times in a row ..and yet serviced others within the same time span who actually requested service later ..that too might be cause for legitimate complaint.

Many people have suggested that I simply buy a 2nd tank ..but as I've said before ..there are already two local suppliers that refuse to fill a customer owned tank. Therefore ..it doesn't make much sense at the present time to own two tanks ..but I am going to start checking out tank prices again ..just to satisfy my own curiosity.

Thanks for the feedback.

No ..I didn't check with Shell ..their phone number was busy when I was checking prices ..and from past experience with checking their prices ..I decided not to bother after that.

Lets look at this another way .
Your leasing the tank . The company still owns it .
If another company were to fill it and something went wrong , the tank blows up or your house burns down due to a gas leak . the company that owns the tank will claim its the other companies fault . The company with lower prices wont fill competitors tank for that reason .
All other arguements are null and void until you buy your own tank.
Once you do reguardless of which company fills it they will have to pressure test the lines and inspect the regulators before filling it .

No no no. Don't see anyone suggesting that. Not at all.

There are 2 types of LP suppliers. Ethical ones, that work with you & supply a fair service for a fair price. Generally they all fill your own tank.

Then there is the other type of supplier. They try to suck you in with 'good deals' and hang you later with long term lease hassles - SUCH as you are experiencing.

So, what is your _long term_ goal here?

You are ignoring the ethical companies that are willing to work with you, fair deal for them, fair deal for you.

Instead you are dealing only with the cut-throat bad eggs in your area. Fine, fine, you swap tanks & companies back & forth costing transport costs, and sure you get a cheap one-year deal to get set up each time.

Five years from now, the good companies will be gone - not doing any business. And all you will have left are the game players, limited places to go to get LP, and you can pay them whatever price they want to ask of you.

You are part of the problem here, if you choose to keep playing this game. You only deal with the thugs & mobsters of the LP business - then that is all you will have left.

Find a _good_ supplier, lock in some pre-pay or pre-order amount, set up a payment plan that works for you & them, and quit wasting time & resources. Have a _good_ company to deal with for the next 10, 20, more years.

Forget about the fool's game of chasing the carrots the bad companies are dangling around.

In the long run, you will reap what you sow if you keep doing that.

In the long run you will do better $$$ if you set yourself up & work with a good company that might appear to charge slightly more than the fools-game companies are showing you.

I do _not_ like the ethics of the companies you are dealing with. In a way tho, you are _supporting_ those bad ethics, which is why some of us are (gently) questioning just exactly what it is you are trying to accomplish with all this. They are dealing from the bottom of the deck; you know it; and yet you continue to want to play with them. Then you rag on about calling in the govt for their practices..... No, no one will bother. You are the one choosing to play the game - your own fault if you get bit by it.

jimho, nothing is ever as black & white as these words make it seem - and certainly I do see your points in all of this, mostly I agree with you on principle. Just, as long as you can see the problems, why not start playing with honest folks & forget about all the games?

--->Paul

I firmly believe that each and every supplier should be considered competent enough to be able to provide whatever services the other companies provide. They are regulated by law ..and if they abide by all the legal regulations ..then why should they be allowed to refuse a service solely because they don't want to allow it? And futhermore ..as I've already stated ..in Michigan a company can fill any other companies tank as long as they have permission from the other company. If they are in the propane business ..they most likely have competent workers available to do whatever needs to be done ..irregardless of who owns the tank.

Laws to protect from gouging................

WOW......Thats another thread..but I'd like to see answers there.

Our infamous Gov made a statement after Katrina about 'turning in' any gas stations 'you' thought were gouging.
Hells bells they all were..............
Was anything done about it...........???
Of course not............nothing but words.

So gouging in the propane business...........
Of course not......... Wouldn't think of it.

And any company who says they will not sell to a customer owned tank......................Oh well.........
They'll go to the top of my do not bother to call list......

Of course the companys will give you a hard time about owning your own tank.
Plain and simple.......its less profit for them.

The end.

They'll just simply say the other customer placed the order first. Good luck, I'm done with this thread.

__________________
For those who fought for it, Freedom holds a special flavor the protected will never know.

Wow ..where did all that come from? Actually ..how is one to know who are the "thugs and mobsters" until they start treating you poorly?

Again ..there is nothing wrong with going for the most favorable price ..as I've already stated the differences in price will be worth approximately $700 to me this year.
That is not chump change ..at $1.49 a gallon ...that is more than one complete fillup of 400 gallons (80% of 500 gallons).

I've already acknowledged that I'd pay the $100 pumpout fee ..and still save plenty of money. But ..Company Happy is willing to pump it out for free ..which is perfectly legal as long as Company Sad gives their consent. But Company Sad refused to cooperate ..even though they supposedly have a good working relationship with Company Happy ..which tells me they willingly acknowledge the high-level of competence that Company Happy provides.

Oh ..Company Happy has been in business around here for more years than I can remember ..which is a very long time. They are definately a very reputable company ..and I am very happy to be switching over to them.

If you suspect they are dealing unethically with you ..thats when you get family and friends to make phone calls ..checking on prices and availability ..and response times.

I appreciate everyone's feedback into this discussion. Not much more left to say. I'm going to call Company Sad one more time tomorrow and arrange pumpout and pickup ..and also ask specifically why they lied to me over the phone. I'll respond back to the thread if anything noteworthy comes out of that phone call.

Again ..thanks to everyone for their feedback. Hopefully everyone has their winter heating plans already in place and have a pretty good idea how much its going to cost them. ..But that's another thread.

Good night all..

Here in corn & hog country, most folks have 4 or so 1000 gal tanks - or go right for a 10,000 gal tank, and lock in prices about a month ago for the next heating/ drying season. Tanks need to be refilled 3-5 times over the winter.

So, we know a bit about LP up here, & dealing with good or bad apples. And saving some on LP purchases. We have a lot of co-ops here, CENEX, for fuel supplies, and they often have a fairer deal for us customers. The private companies often get into the cut-throat games you are trying to play, and are mostly ignored. Some homeowners keep trying to play their games because they don't know better, but who is going to win these silly games? The companies that work with you, offer tank lease or owner tanks, offer pre-buy and pre-book deals - these are the companies worth doing business with.


Do you know much about business? You act surprised that company A would _not_ give permission to let company B pump out the tank.

D'oh!

Company A owns that tank, they control it. They can make $100 from you, or possibly keep you as a customer if they do not allow company B to touch their tank.

What don't you understand about such a business decision?

It's pretty simple..... It's business - try to hook a customer with a deal too good to be true, try to keep him with a contract & ending fees that make it harder to leave than to just pay a bit more to them...... No one is trying to sell you cheap LP. They are trying to hook you with a deal too good to be true so you bite on it, & then they will have you on the fine print for their 'regular' LP price.

An old game, businesses & consumers have played it for centuries. You likely won't win in the end, but it appears you enjoy playing the game, so have at it.

--->Paul

Different laws in different states .
here no company will fill anothers tank theres a liablity issue as well as the issue of the contract on the tank . Most of those contracts state you may purchase only from the company that supplies the tank.
The easiest thing to do is buy your own tank a $500 purchase then you can deal with what ever company you want

Well ..here is the update.

After much phone discussion over several days with several company officials from both propane suppliers ..things have worked out better than I expected.

Company Sad finally gave their permission to allow Company Happy to pump their tank for me for free. Company Sad wanted to keep me as a customer ..the regional director offered me a $1.69 per gallon lockin price ..down significantly from the $2.14 per gallon originally offered.

However ..I did elect to go with Company Happy's $1.49 per gallon lock-in price. Company Happy will deliver their new tank ..pump the remaining gas out of the old tank for free. That's 200 gallons that I paid Company Sad $1.39 per gallon for last April that I get to keep ..and I'm locked in with Company Happy until next May at $1.49 a gallon.

And Company Sad's Regional Director said if I ever have a problem with Company Happy ..to give him a call and allow him the opportunity to get me back as a customer.

So ..from a business point of view ..everything worked out very well. Shows what many phones calls ..and talking very cordially to people on the phone ..can do.

We had something simular happen to us this past year. We leased our tank from a company and had to buy from that company only. I called to check prices and they were a dollar a gallon higher than anyone else. DH and I decided to start looking for our own tank. We had to buy 100 gallons at the high price because we were almost out. When we located the cheapest tank, we still had 50 gallons or so left. The new company we bought the tank from said that they could not pump out the gas from the other guys tank. They said they used to be able to do it, but new laws said they couldn't anymore. We ended up buying the tank and 200 gallons of propane to be delivered when we used up the gas in the leased tank. When the tank was empty I called the first place to come get it. The other company brought the one we bought from them and put the 200 gallons in even though prices had gone up since we had paid for it all. Maybe you could work something like that out with a company even if you leased their tank.

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Qwispea that is unbelievable I sure hope it works out, I was not aware of the above I also lease a tank and I did not know any of this, I definitely wanted my own tank but could not find one any place, the one in the star shopper had 20 calls before it even went to print that I called on. I had to pay 1.75 a gallon for mine at the pre buy rate.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer