Can you make it on the farm

Shadow, if I'm understanding you correctly, you don't necessarily need to sub-divide for the income, it's just that it would be a smarter thing to do financially and you wouldn't have the financial and physical burden of maintaining the farm as you're accustomed? What if you look at it a different way? What would be so bad about letting it grow up? I'm a farmer's daughter and a farmer's wife, so I know how distasteful it is to see fields overgrown. Just my two cents, but I'd rather see the bushes take over than see houses planted in those fields.

Have you thought about donating a conservation easement through a local land conservancy? They could adapt the easement to suit your needs and desires. You could retain ownership and use the farm as you always have (farm, hunt, fish, cut the timber, leave it to your kids to use or sell), but you could keep it from ever being developed or subdivided. There are a lot of financial advantages to doing this. Please check it out.

I have looked into these and read up on them and they seem to be an answer for some people. The wife is much younger than me and worries that in the future she might need to sale part for medical or other problems but not want to sell all as she fully intends to live out her life here on the farm.

I completely agree you its not big enough to truly live the homestead life but its about all most people can even think about using and take care of. I have down sized untill that is about what we have in gardens, yard and buildings. The rest except for cutting a tree or two now and then for a project is just there. We would not consider selling more than about 50 as the other 70 because of the way it lays gives us complete privicy year round. Course since we don't seem to be using it the tresspassers are picking up but that can be handled.
But the fact is you are right and here comes the four wheelers and too many animals for the ground they have to put them on.
Your post is great for reminding homesteaders you can not over load your lands ability to take care of what ever you are doing with it.

For some folks 3-5 acres and a trailer, log cabin, whatever is an ideal homestead...you can raise a lot of vegetables and small animals ( chickens, goats, rabbits, whatever ) on that size without a lot ( or any ) of machinery.

I know some ares are getting subdivided and large homes are springing up in the countryside with 5 acre lawns to mow, but that isn't always the case.........

I am also sorry to hear this and also feel I am not qualified to give advice to some one with your experience. Would you do any thing differently to perhaps make things work for you and the wife??

I am one of those 'farmlet' people.

My neighbour had a large farm and ran cattle. For a variety of reasons, he subdivided, sold, and moved back closer to his family.

Lucky me - I got 6 acres of his former cattle pasture. I feel very blessed to have this chance, and I want to make all I can out of it! It's all I can handle on my own, and the county has limits for the number of animals I can keep that seem eminently reasonable to me (1 horse per acre, or 3 sheep or 15 chickens ... the usual kinds of things). I love my little acreage. I have more privacy and space than I ever dreamed I could have, and when some more trees grow up along my fenclines, it'll be even better. I've got room for a great garden, chickens in the shed, my kid plays in the creek, and my sheep are happy. Sheep! How wonderful!

Hopefully someday I can buy some additional land - there's still some adjoining me that my neighbour holds ... he was offered big bucks from a developer but couldn't bring himself to do that to the land (or to me!). I am so grateful that he made this chance available for me. Maybe you'll have good luck and find a nice family to make use of some of your land, if that's the route you go.

That said - the people who bought 5 acres next to me are .. different. They come out from the city most weekends and *mow the whole 5 acres* with an ATV and a pull behind mower. They putter around and seem quite happy, and I just shake my head. They don't complain about my animals, though, and helped rescue a loose sheep, and gladly accept farm eggs, so they can't be all that bad. The ones on the other side have a little cabin and big gates and like their privacy and are out once in awhile to putter, they planted nice trees and seem happy to just enjoy the wild spaces around them. The pasture across from me is empty this year, nobody wanted to lease it I suppose, but the hayfields did get mowed and baled.

I guess it just depends on a lot of things ... but maybe, if it comes to 'sharing' your farm land with others, you'll find someone as grateful to you for the opportunity as I am to my former neighbour.

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Apple Jack Creek
near Edmonton Alberta
author of Just Keep Knitting: a journey of healing through forgiveness, faith, and fibre and The Rookie's Field Guide to Supported Spinning

I know this thread is already filled with good suggesstions, but I would like to offer one more. It is something my husband and I have talked about, but have not had the time to implement.

What if you could turn your place into a learning environment and have other people come there to "learn" organic gardening, or homesteading, whatever you can offer. They could live or camp on site if you had something available, and help you with the work while sharing valuable information, that will soon be needed in our changing world.

If living on site is not possible, then what about week-end seminars or week long "working vacations", etc. Or at best, have them work toward becoming caretakers which would allow you and your wife to get away from time to time while stilling having someone care for your place, animals, etc.

There are people out there who are willing to pay for the knowledge that you possess, and more than willing to get their fingers dirty working the soil, planting vegetables, etc. that they can't do in their apartment.

Some community colleges have varieties of learning opportunities for adults such as sewing, story telling, photography, etc. Why not offer classes at your house on "hands on" gardening, how to split wood, how to cook on a wood stove, how to draw water from a well without electricity, composting, etc.?

I understand your frustration with your family, we are experiencing the same thing. It is tough growing your own food, keeping mother nature at bay, etc. You are preaching to those who understand.

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Take your time, or someone else will.

The problem with 5 acre farmletts is by the time you get a house, a lawn, and some barns to house animals on it, there isnt enough land left to raise any feed for the animals. I hope that this type of subdivision would attract land stewards, but I have a feeling it would also attract people who hate farm smells too wich would just create a bunch of arguing neighbors.

If it was possible to restrict the buyers to only people who wanted to farm, and no one who wasnt going to farm would be allowed, then It might work nicely. Small parcels like that attract an awfull lot of people who think farming just stinks.

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Professional Tool. 1220 Woodmere Ave,Traverse City, MI. 49686. 231-941-8003. http://professionaltool.com/

There isn't a thing wrong with a 5 acre "Farmlet". I live on one myself. Built a house, 3 stall barn, storage/shop building. I keep 3 horses, 25 chickens and 5 dogs on it and still have an acre to mow.

I have some other pasture land at my disposal if I need it, and if I don't, I buy feed.

Next year I'll be putting out a garden on this year's manure pile...

Who says ya got to rasie your own feed?

Ya know what? I think a lot of you folks got a real problem with anyone moving to the country who's not a true-blue, live off the land, little house on the pararie - type farm family.

Even people who don't want to farm or raise gardens or livestock will know they are buying land with no deed restrictions...so who cares if they don't like farm smells? They'll be forewarned when they buy.

Also, if someone wants to build a nice house and raise their kids on 5 acres that they mow...so what?

I reject the notion that this guy sub-dividing his large farm into small parcels is some kind of tragedy. He's keeping 50 acres and profiting nicely off the rest. I say, "Way to Go" and "Congratulations".

I still say there will be a lot of people who never had the chance move to the country and live their dreams. This is called "Freedom" and "Opportunity". In past generations they were words used often about the American Way of Life. Now all people wanna do is whine...

The first farm I ever bought (and still own by the way) was a "Divided Farm". I use mine as I see fit, and so does everyone around me...

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"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

Couple of thoughts. There are several small kit cabins that are fairly affordable. I would love to have a place to retreat to on a regular basis. I'm sure there are others.

Also, Amish people might be willing to pay a good price for your property - they are running out of land to leave to their families and so Amish groups are splitting up and moving to different areas. Too many children, not enough large pieces of land left. Some Amish families are having to give up (large scale) farming all together and work in the furniture business, building, roofing, etc.

IMHO it all depends upon where you are..the closer you are to a major metropolitan area, the more likely you are to attract folks who work in the city, ARE basically "city people" looking for really big lawns and a place to ride a horse..most of us have met them..they move to the country and immediately want everything to change to suit them..a few years later, the effects of their presence can be felt as the county's tax rates go higher.

The more rural you are, the more you attract folks who just want a little piece of heaven..no, they don't grow their own livestock feed, nor do they erect a windmill and go off grid..maybe they can't afford to invest in a bunch of solar panels and a 30K John Deere..maybe they just don't want to.. (self-serving statement coming up)..maybe they're like me and just want enough acreage to raise chickens and have a small orchard, sit on the porch and say "ahh, THIS is good."..If I had unlimited funds and good health, darned if I wouldn't go right out tomorrow and buy 500 acres of great land and an old house with a HUGE barn, assemble a wonderful goat herd and a bunch of chickens, and hire folks to give me a hand making it into the "Working Farm Museum"..everybody welcome..I'd be in proverbial pig heaven..but that's not reality..so I'm one of "those people" who'd happily "settle" for a 3 or 5 acre place and consider myself extremely blessed. One of MANY..so don't knock small acreage folks..we're cool..

What is wrong with buying feed is that with the whole NAIS thing they were starting to take down your info at the feed store in order to buy feed some places also it is just better to be self reliant as far as food is concerned for a number of important reasons mainly to help insure you and your families survival survival.In another post a while back Shadow said that a lot of the people that come back to his area driving land prices up are living in Mcmansions. I think a 5 acre lawn is a SIN it is wasting the natural productivity of Gods creation especially if it is in an area that would have been naturally forested. Pretty sad that there are folks who waste resources cutting 5 acres of lawn when others dont have space for a small garden. FOOD NOT LAWNS

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

Checked my Bible...Can't find any prohibitions against 5 acre lawns...Ya might want to do a little research on "Liberty" "Freedom" or even "Private Ownership".

As far as NAIS...build a bunker if ya feel the need. I believe freedom will survive NAIS...Maybe I'm just odd man out, but I think the Govt. has bigger fish to fry than coming after my chicken.

Mcmansion = Nice home. I suppose that's a sin too if it's built in the country. I happen to disagree. Again, I reference the aforementioned terms.

One other point...I get tickled at those who bemoan the "Naturally Foreseted" five acres being perhaps cleard for a nice home and a big lawn. At the same time, those same people would rejoice and celebrate the trees being cut down for a log cabin and a pig ranch...go figure.

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"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

*laugh* I knew I liked you Boleyz. To "maintain" our property, which means in translation "harvest wood safely on a tricky hillside" we require a huge tractor and occasionally a borrowed track hoe. We run a 3/4 ton truck. We have a log splitter which borders on the absurd. All of this costs money. Serious money. But it makes us "independant" in that I haven't bought fuel for our home in 3 years, this will be our fourth winter on the relatively small tanks in our basement. Worth it in terms of rational spending? I tend to think not, although I haven't run the numbers. Worth it in terms of "peace of mind?" Uh.. yea. I know that with a few gallons of deisel and some time I can rack up enough wood to stay, if not cozy, at least marginally comfortable, for the winter. That peace of mind is worth the investment in engines and steel.

But would I want a "farm" bigger than my exsisting open 7 acres? Heck no. Oh sure... I'd like "flatter." I'd like "better fencing." And I'd love "barn." But more acerage? Absolutely unnecessary. I don't use what I've got now efficiently. More wouldn't help!

I grew up on a five acre subdivided (and flat... never appreciated that as a kid!) Victorian neighborhood lot. Enough room for a pony, huge garden, and massive, manicured, front lawn. Enough room for a little woodlot, a barn, outbuildings, and a 16 room rambling Victorian. Enough room for goats, sheep, pigs, and, at one time, 12 dogs. PLENTY of room to be a little "farmlet." Or, to use a better word: croft.

We bought feed. We still buy feed, bagged and hay. However, if we more carefully managed our resources and adjusted our diet, AND were willing to mow hay by hand (not even going there...) we probably could bring almost enough feed in off our existing acres to carry a few animals through the winter. It would be slim pickings for all of us, but I think it might be managed.

However, I look on every bale of hay as an improvement to my property. Energy brought into an ecosystem and converted to waste and food is a positive for that ecosystem. That hay, after a winter of being trampled underfoot and injested, is converted to compost for the garden and lambs destined for my table. The conversion rate for purchased feed vastly exceeds its cash cost.

I'm not sold on the "big farm is better" idea. Five acres will do most families just fine, AND support a big farm down the road with their feed purchases. What is necessary is convincing the new neighbors that their own flock of chickens, a few sheep, even a pony, are fun hobbies they want to get involved in.

A chicken in every yard.. that's the ticket!

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Icelandic Sheep and German Angora Rabbits

Hey calm down, most of the houses around here belong to people that their families have lived on the land for generations and they all farm to some degree more than most much more than I do. The average house is probably close to 3500 sq ft up to one that is over 6000. All are owned by farmers and their kids. Life time residents. Most have huge yards while our house is small probably the smallest in the neghborhood 960 sq feet we have a studio, summer kitchen, sunroom 12 feet north of the house that is 1600 sq ft it has its own complete bath, the studio has floor to ceiling book shelves that house our library of almost 5,000 books on our iinterest of fiber, woodcarving, howto, indians, gardening. We cut about five acres of grass, some is along the road a half a mile from the house. We sleep in the house, live in the studio, and the shop has all the storage for the stuff you only use once in a while like Christmas declorations. Point you may be talking about me and the wife. We now do not have animals except the three huge dogs that watch the place and guard us, you should have seen the white one leaning against the wife and barking furiously when I unespectdedly came in after her the other night. She would not leave the wife untill she told her it was ok. We are homesteaders, we have worked for years to do it but would most do it, put in all the time, energy, money, work two jobs, we have not been to a movie in years, I go into town every Friday, meet the wife , have dinner (kinda like a date) buy what we need before she gets off from work then after dinner go to the book store, and buy groceries. Then back to the farm and usually I'm there for the next week. We love the life but is it worth it?

Shadow, it's up to you. As was mentioned before, life is about enjoying the journey...if you find yourself in a situation where you aren't enjoying it anymore, make some changes. Sell off some land, buy a rv, travel the continent, put it on a tramp freighter and see the world, whatever you desire...

I could easily see a time come when I get burned out living in the country, fixing fence, caring for animals, mowing pastures, you name it...if that happens, I will find somewhere else to live. I don't try and make a living off our place so that is one stress I don't have.

A man's land is his to do with as he likes. Divide or don't divide that's up to you. A couple of things I didn't see mentioned in anyones postings; Adding 15 to 20 additional lots is going to increase the traffic on your local road, if you are on wells and not public water those extra homes have the potential to knock the water table down pretty quick, with all that construction codes will probably get a revamp, families usually mean kids that ride school busses and require addtional public services, so don't be suprised if you see your taxes increase significantly at the next assesment. A number of 200+ acre properties sold off by farmes and then sub-divided by developers around here so we've seen it happen. Then someone starts thinking it would be a great idea to build a McDonalds just down the road.

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Every survival kit should include a sense of humor

I totally agree with Hammer4 - you are the only one who can know what will be right for you *right now*.

Just because something worked great for you at one point in your life doesn't mean it always will.

At one point, my fancy clothes, duplex house and sports car were *exactly* what I needed. Now, it's my five acres, 4 wheel drive truck and mud on my boots. In the future, who knows?

Things change for all of us, that's the only thing that we can know for sure.

Perhaps there's a way of making a temporary change, to see if something different would work better. I got my LGD from a farm where someone is 'farm sitting' for two years while the owners are away on a missions trip. Perhaps you could (carefully!) find someone who would live on your place for awhile, pay rent to cover the costs there and keep things up, while you try out a different life for 6 months or a year. There's lots of younger folk who would like to 'try out' farm/rural life before making the leap (I actually looked into it, but the only rental place I found was just barely fit for human habitation - certainly not with a small kid!)

Peace to you on your journey!

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Apple Jack Creek
near Edmonton Alberta
author of Just Keep Knitting: a journey of healing through forgiveness, faith, and fibre and The Rookie's Field Guide to Supported Spinning