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08/12/06, 04:10 PM
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Member of the mod squad
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: FLW, MO
Posts: 7,178
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BobK
I should break out some cheese.......it'll go good with this thread....
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Bob, this post right here is the very reason that people are bothered by you. If people speak to me in real life like that (ESPECIALLY if they are a SME - subject matter expert), I usually tell them to take their experience and research, and use that and a quarter to call someone who cares.
I can understand your point of view, and admit that you most obviously seem to be knowledgeable and learned on the subject of which you speak. But in real life (and hopefully, on bulletin boards as well), all one can do is offer their opinions, state their reasons, give their qualifications, and let it lie. If others choose not to take that advice for WHATEVER reason, whether you or that person be right or wrong, then that's their concern.
Simply put, the questions the poster was asking were answered by you, but the answers were not satisfactory to them because it was not what they were looking for. It seems to me, then, that it would make more sense to say "Well, that's my opinion backed up by experience" and let it lie, than to point out how much research you've done, how wrong others are for not following your advice, etc.
__________________
"I pursue my faith with a lack of remorse; I stand resolute to embrace the cause." -- Project 86
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08/12/06, 04:14 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,230
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by vegascowgirl
yes this is a public forum. However her question was not "what is YOUR opinion on naturapathic remedies?". If it were then the person in question would have had every right to state his opinion. Bama' asked FOR remedies or resources to such. The other person could have just as easily posted a new topic , using his opinion to warn folks about his beliefs of natural remedies.
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see you don't get it...its not a belief its a reality in this case....with an abundance of evidence to support what I've stated....but everyone wants desperately to have a natural side-effect free cure they can't accept this fact of life.....sorry it doesn't exist...sorry to burst everyones bubble with a reality check.......cannot provide that which does not exist!
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08/12/06, 04:32 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BobK
see you don't get it...its not a belief its a reality in this case....with an abundance of evidence to support what I've stated....but everyone wants desperately to have a natural side-effect free cure they can't accept this fact of life.....sorry it doesn't exist...sorry to burst everyones bubble with a reality check.......cannot provide that which does not exist!
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and what you don't get is we heard you the first time, so drop it and let people look for what THEY want instead of what you want.
For somebody on their way to a PhD, you're being pretty dense.
Last edited by primal1; 08/12/06 at 04:34 PM.
Reason: being pretty dense, not that you are.
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08/12/06, 04:38 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,230
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kung
Bob, this post right here is the very reason that people are bothered by you. If people speak to me in real life like that (ESPECIALLY if they are a SME - subject matter expert), I usually tell them to take their experience and research, and use that and a quarter to call someone who cares.
I can understand your point of view, and admit that you most obviously seem to be knowledgeable and learned on the subject of which you speak. But in real life (and hopefully, on bulletin boards as well), all one can do is offer their opinions, state their reasons, give their qualifications, and let it lie. If others choose not to take that advice for WHATEVER reason, whether you or that person be right or wrong, then that's their concern.
Simply put, the questions the poster was asking were answered by you, but the answers were not satisfactory to them because it was not what they were looking for. It seems to me, then, that it would make more sense to say "Well, that's my opinion backed up by experience" and let it lie, than to point out how much research you've done, how wrong others are for not following your advice, etc.
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Kung, sorry but I disagree. This is a serious disease and I've seen the damage done by it.....the problem is a refusal to accept that there are no natural remedies and instead of learning why this is so taking the approach of denial.
I make the repeated posts not for ol' suzy...she has her mind made up and doesn't care about experience or knowledge on the subject...but rather for others who are sitting on the fence and probably have the disease or know someone who does....for those folks information is invaluable.....I don't care if they follow my advice...I'd hope they pay attention and do a bit of research on their own...if they are equipped with the resources to seperate the wheat from the chaff....otherwise they will fall prey to all the garbage there is out there about this disease.....
Respect is a two way street....I try to start out that way but when attacked or shwon no resepct I see no reason to pull punches...and with this disease no punches should ever be pulled...sometimes reality is difficult to accept....that is what keeps the quacks in business......and this disease is the leading cause of liver transplants and nothing to be trifled with....
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08/12/06, 04:40 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dwelling in the state of Confusion - but just passing thru...
Posts: 8,092
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08/12/06, 04:49 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,230
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by primal1
and what you don't get is we heard you the first time, so drop it and let people look for what THEY want instead of what you want.
For somebody on their way to a PhD, you're being pretty dense.
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I could make the same innane comments as you have but I won't....I thought the goal was to find out what would be in the best interest in the newly diagnosed patient.....what will and will not work seems to me to be essential.....she does have children and I imagine living a full life would be nice.......what 'THEY' want does not exist....sorry they and you cannot accept that....but they are getting better and better at transplants these days.....
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08/12/06, 05:00 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 15,516
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It's very easy really. If you don't like a certain poster or can't tolerate that persons atitude, put 'em on ignore. There are a few people that I don't read. That simple. I skim past their posts and go on to read the ones that are written by people I respect.
It saves a lot of time and effort.
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08/12/06, 05:01 PM
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Insanity prevails
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lenexa, KS
Posts: 253
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When the doctors told me they believed I had psoriatic athritis and recommended for me to start thinking about going on methotrexate, I researched things. I quickly came to the point where I was really thinking about NOT going on the medication and using marijuanna once the pain got bad. May be illegal, but at least it wouldn't be killing me like methotrexate would have. Funny thing was, then I told my mother all this, she agreed with me, and she's a chemist who has spent the past 20 years working in the pharmecutical indsutry and currenly works in regulatory affairs at an international pharmecutical company. She recently attained her masters degree in regulatory sciences (a new masters program now offered) and now teaches at several southern california universities on the subject.
Lucky for me, the doctors were wrong, so much for people with a degree knowing anything for certain. My mom included LOL. Never as your mom for help with your homework when she's an expert in the field. She'll never make any sense to you!!!
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08/12/06, 05:05 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BobK
I could make the same innane comments as you have but I won't....I thought the goal was to find out what would be in the best interest in the newly diagnosed patient.....what will and will not work seems to me to be essential.....she does have children and I imagine living a full life would be nice.......what 'THEY' want does not exist....sorry they and you cannot accept that....but they are getting better and better at transplants these days.....
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No Bob, the goal was NOT to find out what would be in the best interest in the newly diagnosed patient, except in your mind, the goal was to provide the information asked for and you couldn't do that.
Not only that but your realife experiences seem to be the only ones that count, funny how that works eh.
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08/12/06, 05:08 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,230
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sorry it appears you know nothing about HCV but think you do...if not for the benefit of the patient then for what?
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08/12/06, 05:29 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Central Arkansas
Posts: 1,069
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Quote:
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Need Hepatitus C natural remedies....
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That was the question.
__________________
Rudeness is a small man's imitation of power.
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08/12/06, 05:33 PM
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****
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Central New York
Posts: 8,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ardie/WI
It's very easy really. If you don't like a certain poster or can't tolerate that persons atitude, put 'em on ignore. There are a few people that I don't read. That simple. I skim past their posts and go on to read the ones that are written by people I respect.
It saves a lot of time and effort.
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Sound advice. Thank you, Ardie
Stacy
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People say I can't multi-task. Well, I can tick you off and amuse myself at the same time.
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08/12/06, 06:15 PM
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Unreality star
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 9,894
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Jeesh
And people wonder why theres no Natural Remedies forum.
Bob I suggest you stop reading the "natural" topics, or you will need some garlic for your high blood pressure.
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Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.
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08/12/06, 06:33 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,230
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shygal
Jeesh
And people wonder why theres no Natural Remedies forum.
Bob I suggest you stop reading the "natural" topics, or you will need some garlic for your high blood pressure.
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actually my BP is A-OK....but I still love garlic......
Westwood.....a remedy would be something that helps or eliminates the disease...yes?
I guess we do as some suggest and not care about the newly diagnosed patient and post any old or hairbrained idea that has been tried....I mean with taht attitude we could care less if it helps, hurts, hinders, or kills the patient....we just don't care as long as its an alleged remedy.....I think later on I'll post aa laundry list of things that have been tried and claimed to cure HCV....it'll be fun......and a bit horrifying!
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08/12/06, 06:46 PM
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Question Answerer
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: ME
Posts: 3,119
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Bob...... 
Chill.
__________________
A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803–1882)
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08/12/06, 07:17 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MT
Posts: 346
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Quote:
Originally posted by BobK
I don't blindly reject things out of hand but if the phsyiology is questionable and the expt. design poor than I look closely at the conclusions being drawn to see if they are overreaching their proofs.
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Well Bob, I hope that these 'conclusions you are looking at, to see if they are over-reaching their proofs'...are better than those of one of the papers you posted to support your comments.
Quote:
http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcsums/milktsum.htm
Conclusions
Clinical efficacy of milk thistle is not clearly established. Interpretation of the evidence is hampered by poor study methods and/or poor quality of reporting in publications. Problems in study design include heterogeneity in etiology and extent of liver disease, small sample sizes, and variation in formulation, dosing, and duration of milk thistle therapy. Possible benefit has been shown most frequently, but not consistently, for improvement in aminotransferases and liver function tests are overwhelmingly the most common outcome measure studied. Survival and other clinical outcome measures have been studied least often, with both positive and negative findings. Available evidence is not sufficient to suggest whether milk thistle may be more effective for some liver diseases than others or if effectiveness might be related to duration of therapy or chronicity and severity of liver disease. Regarding adverse effects, little evidence is available regarding causality, but available evidence does suggest that milk thistle is associated with few, and generally minor, adverse effects.
Despite substantial in vitro and animal research, the mechanism of action of milk thistle is not fully defined and may be multifactorial. A systematic review of this evidence to clarify what is known and identify gaps in knowledge would be important to guide design of future studies of the mechanisms of milk thistle and clinical trials.
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08/12/06, 07:35 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,230
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by emulkahi1
Well Bob, I hope that these 'conclusions you are looking at, to see if they are over-reaching their proofs'...are better than those of one of the papers you posted to support your comments.
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that would be paper.....I left off the 's' because it was only one....what part of this did you not understand?...
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Conclusions
Clinical efficacy of milk thistle is not clearly established. "
there's plenty more if your willing to read them...ask and I'll post them!
...and of course let's use a little quid pro quo....you post something that supports efficacy for discussion and I'll post something else....OK?
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08/12/06, 07:46 PM
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Try Me
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: somewhere, and No where
Posts: 1,083
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I find it funny that some people think that natural remedies are a crock but fully condone stuffing a whole bunch of God know what kind of chemicals down our throats to cure things. Yet we are constantly hearing about new drugs that in the long run are causing worse problems then the original disease/virus/pain it was supposed to cure. Isn't it a tad disheartening that you here all these commercials about new breakthrough drugs to cure this or that.....BUT at the end of the commercials they run through about 20 side effects that the drug may cause.
Granted natural remedies have side effects and/or drug interactions too. However, I'd rather put something in my body that was made by God/nature than something cooked up in a lab.
__________________
Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship.
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08/12/06, 07:58 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central MT
Posts: 346
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Bob--
The following quote from those conclusions gives the reason the "clinical efficacy of milk thistle is not clearly established."
Quote:
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Interpretation of the evidence is hampered by poor study methods and/or poor quality of reporting in publications.
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It would follow that this statement would also serve to make suspect the conclusions of any other paper you might post....Because it could be that it would be among those that employ "poor study methods and/or poor quality of reporting in publications."
In addition, at no point did this paper say that milk thistle therapies were INeffective. Rather, the statement was made that "Available evidence is not sufficient to suggest whether milk thistle may be more effective for some liver diseases than others or if effectiveness might be related to duration of therapy or chronicity and severity of liver disease."
It also states that "available evidence does suggest that milk thistle is associated with few, and generally minor, adverse effects."
Erin
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08/12/06, 08:01 PM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: North Central Arkansas
Posts: 1,069
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Quote:
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Need Hepatitus C natural remedies....
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What does it take Bob, braille?
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Rudeness is a small man's imitation of power.
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It's EASY to see why......if he hi-jacked the other thread.....it just stands to reason that he'll do the same here as well..... 
