Need Hepatitus C natural remedies....

FYI my training is to look at expt. design and evaluate its strengths and weaknesses....my training is to look at data and evaluate it in the context of the questions asked and to determine if the expt. design and the results support the conclusions....it also has a lot to do with understanding the basic physiological principals in the context of these expts.......I don't blindly reject things out of hand but if the phsyiology is questionable and the expt. design poor than I look closely at the conclusions being drawn to see if they are overreaching their proofs.

that would be pharmacy your speaking of......not pharmacology...I'm am only presenting the evidence I have gleaned in over ten years of suffering from and researching this disease...you don't like it too bad......I think the closemindedness of many here your self included stinks...but so what?

pharmacology....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacology

Seems to me that the only closed minded person here is yourself. As I understand it, you are the only person here preaching your prescribed way as the only way. If you have extensive background with this particular condition, you had an excellent opportunity to educate without being preachy and arrogant but you have chosen the lesser road. That in itself is an unfortunate situation but the choice you've made. Once again, Suzy never said that her daughter was going to foresake conventional treatment, she's looking at options to consider and entitles you to present you opinon politely - just like everyone else and allow her to absorb the realities of the condition itself and the information provided. I'm not always so sure that the pill pushing route is always the best route myself but then again, the realities of watching my father die slowly and have been robbed of the vital life he had because the legalized drug pushers made great claims about a couple little old athritis drugs being 'the only possible treatment for chronic pain'. Then again, it's the only truth and they only way. Right?? Then again another person I know with parallel conditions sought the help of a tribal medicine man and isn't facing a death sentence. Drugs can be a blessing or a disaster, it all depends on who you talk to.

OK what exactly have I been close minded about....educate me with the specifics?

Thanks to all of you who have emailed me info or PM's info to me. (especially that long email Lannie, we are sure looking into all of that!!! thank you!!!) We have a lot of things to think about and a lot to study.

A thread like this is usually good because it shows many ideas and thoughts which everyone can read and learn from. Thank you all again. We still don't have the liver biopsy scheduled but hope they will get that scheduled soon.

We also especially appreciate the prayers from all of you that have offered them and ask that you continue to offer them.

Those of you, especially one in particular, who wants to continue arguing, can just go ahead and argue all you want to...I am a newspaper editor and have been a journalist for more than 30 years so I certainly believe in free speech....but that freedom also means I don't have to read you or listen to you when you are not being helpful when we are in this time of crisis.

Thank you again to all of you who went out of your way to help us here! God bless you!

Pamela Anderson eats alot of avacados to help with her Hep C. She said that it's made a tremendous difference.

Hope this helps!

Kat

__________________
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." - John 14:6

BamaSuzy I'm praying for your family.

I'm praying for you too BobK.

__________________
formerly known as HaloHead
****************************************

"... And what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" Micah 6:8

Hopefully others will too.

When herbal remedies are proved as being helpfull, they cease being herbal and they become conventional treatments. That means that the very long list or natural treatments on-line are ALL of treatments that have NOT been proven!

Yet.

Some of those natural treatments ARE effective, and I am gratefull that my neurologist has told me when the other MS patients say that something helps. One or two of those has been real winners, while most of the herbal treatments recommended by non-MS sufferers have been useless.

I think that the ONLY way that you will get ACCURATE advice is when a hep C patient says "I tried this and it worked", because there are too darned many herbal pill pusher on the net, and I have found it impossible to tell the honest ones from the liars.

And, there ARE honest ones, but I cannot pick them out. Fellow sufferers, on the other hand, are pretty much honest and have nothing to gain.

Terri, that's why it's so important to do your own research. Others can tell you what worked for them or what they read, but you have to research it for yourself. Try a little, and see how it works or if you even like it (if you don't like it, you won't take it).

In herbal medicines or any other medicines, how something affects each individual is different. I always test a little before I take too much. I have a very low tolerance for regular medicines, and that is why I switched to the herbal route (and I am so glad I did). If a bottle of something says it causes you to be sleepy - it always reacts on me like I'm doing speed!


katlupe

__________________
Homesteading On The Internet
Solar Baby
Reflections of katlupe

Sorry, BamaSuzy, I am going to go a bit off the subject of Hep C. Unfortunately, when someone is CURED of whatever by alternative therapy, it may not be widely known and documented and, in fact, usually isn't. I have a close friend, who was in the last stage of melanoma cancer(given 3 months to live) and after a surgery to remove a lump was referred by his MD to a metabolic MD in Boulder, CO. He was put on a strict diet, herbals, coffee enemas/liver cleanses and other protocol(no chemo or radiation) that I can't remember now as that was 25 years ago(he was my inspiration to get my mom in natural therapy......she was given 6 months and lived 13 years with help from this same alternative MD). My friend, today, is in perfect, cancer free health. His story is known by maybe 200 people. How many TRUE stories are out there, that are not widely known, probably way more than you think.


The Known facts are not ALL the facts. What can be found within the internet/scientific research/double blinds and so on.........is really limited.

__________________
Disease is not an entity, but a fluctuating condition of the patients body, a battle between the substance of disease and the natural self healing tendency of the body......Hippocrates

Wesatch (huisache) is Acacia farnesiana. Its common shrub in the Coastal Bend of Texas. Very common. You get more of it with overgrazing.

BobK is terse but I think has experience with and knows his stuff on Hepatitis C medical establishment treatment and I would follow his advice. Especially with the potential cure rates he mentioned.

However, I'd also say that when an herbal treatment is categorized as "not proven effective" it usually means not patentable and therefore unstudied in outrageously expensive clinical trials. There's no money in "proving" it works.

I suspect that Bob's friends also suffered from AIDS and which may have compounded treatment of hepatitis C.

cool thanks for that. I found the correct spelling at one time, but couldn't remember where I put that info. Since I don't have liver problems anymore, there wasn't much motivation to worry about it. I just watch how much I drink, don't eat a lot of sweets and many other routine diet things I do to maintain my health.

__________________
Our website promoting the use of Missouri Herbs. www.MissouriHerbs.com

That would be absolutely incorrect...he died of endstage liver disease brought about by the ravages of HCV......esophogeal varicies bleedout to be exact...but speculate away....and actually rather than speculating why not ask? Do you think every individual who dies of endstage liver disease as a result of HCV also has AIDS?

[QUOTE=caballoviejo]

However, I'd also say that when an herbal treatment is categorized as "not proven effective" it usually means not patentable and therefore unstudied in outrageously expensive clinical trials. There's no money in "proving" it works.

QUOTE]

With the large volume of studies on compounds such as milk thistle there exists a large volume of data to support the conslusions presented......and there are many studies being conducted for the purpose of proving if they work or not....nothing more.....accepting the results is another issue......many won't believe any study and work on faith alone....isn't that what NCCAM is all about?

Two-year results of a randomised double-blinded trial evaluating silymarin for chronic hepatitis C

Digestive and Liver Disease
Volume 37, Issue 7 , July 2005, Pages 542-543

G.T. Stricklanda, , , M.D. Tanamlya, F. Tadrosb, S. Labeebc, H. Makldc, D. Nessima, N. Mikhailb, c, L.S. Magdera, N.H. Afdhald, A. Medhatc and M. Abdel-Hamida, b

aDepartment of Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine, University of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD, USA
bNational Hepatology and Tropical Medicine Research Institute, Cairo, Egypt
cAssiut University Faculties of Medicine and Nursing, Assiut, Egypt
dDepartment of Medicine, Harvard University School of Medicine, Boston, MA, USA

Available online 13 April 2005.




Article Outline
Acknowledgements
References


We recently described the study design and 12-month results of a randomised controlled trial (RCT) comparing patient compliance, safety and effectiveness of silymarin with a multi-vitamin placebo in 141 subjects with chronic HCV infections, 90% of whom are infected with genotype-4 [1]. Herein, we report the results of the 24-month evaluation.

The same protocol was followed as reported by Tanamly et al. [1], and none of the subjects living in a rural Egyptian village were treated in the interim with anti-viral agents or other herbal therapies. A detailed history was taken, physical and ultrasound exams were conducted and a blood specimen was drawn 24-months after starting the study.

Serum was tested for (1) antibodies to HCV (anti-HCV) using a third-generation enzyme immunoassay (EIA); (2) HCV RNA using an in-house reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR); (3) alanine aminotransferase (ALT) and (4) serum YKL-40 (human cartilage glycoprotein) and hyaluronic acid (HA) as serum markers for hepatic fibrosis [1]. We used the same criteria for the diagnosis of fibrosis and for classification, i.e. no fibrosis, fibrosis and indeterminate, based on their baseline fibrosis marker score and disease progression. Abdominal ultrasound assessed hepatic morbidity. The subjects’ opinion regarding their health and quality of life (QOL) was assessed with an Medical Outcomes Study 36-item Short Form Health Survey (SF-36 form) adapted for use in mostly illiterate Egyptian farmers and translated into Arabic.

Legalon 140R (Silymarin) was provided in bulk by Madaus AG (Cologne, Germany). It and the multi-vitamin and mineral compound used as a placebo were placed in identical capsules by the Chemical Industries Development Pharmaceutical Co. (CID; Cairo, Egypt) and were dispersed as 1 week supplies by the project nurses. During these weekly visits, the subjects were asked about recent illness, medications taken and tolerance to the supplement or placebo by the visiting nurses. The data were collected, handled and analysed as described [1]. Results of the 24-month follow-up were compared with base-line results, as well as results at 12-month follow-up. Since results at 12- and 24-months were almost identical, most analyses compared the base-line with the 24-month results.

One hundred and forty-one subjects were evaluated. One patient in the silymarin group at the 12-month follow-up was not evaluated and one was added to the placebo group. He had taken the multi-vitamin placebo regularly even though he did not provide a blood sample at 12-months. During the second year, 97.5% consumed >95% of their medication. There was no difference between compliance of the silymarin (97.4%) or placebo (97.6%) groups (P = 0.652). No one discontinued silymarin or placebo because of adverse events. The adverse events index, based on number of weeks with complaint/number of weeks of observation, remained low during the second year and did not differ between the groups. Just as was the case during the 1-year follow-up, less nausea, vomiting, fatigue, weight loss, dark urine and other symptoms were reported by both groups at 2-years than prior to the RCT and there were no significant differences between the two groups at the 24-month follow-up [1].

After 24 months of therapy, 65/68 of the group receiving silymarin still had anti-HCV and 72/73 of those given multi-vitamins were anti-HCV positive (P = 0.56). HCV RNA persisted in 64/68 of the silymarin group and in 71/73 in the multi-vitamin group (P = 0.61). Elevations in ALT were present in 13 of 73 of those receiving vitamins and in 11 of 65 receiving silymarin. These were mild, ranging from 64 to 105, and the percentage with elevations did not differ from those at base-line. When the subjects were stratified according to whether the initial ALT levels were elevated or not, there were no differences between the responses to silymarin and placebo. Progression to fibrosis as measured by serum hepatic fibrosis markers was slightly more, and regression less, in the multi-vitamin group than the silymarin group. However, these differences were not statistically significant (P = 0.15–0.92). Abdominal ultrasound findings of hepatomegaly, splenomegaly, portal vein dilation and a coarse hepatic echogenic pattern were detected in about the same proportion of subjects as during the 12-month evaluation and at a slightly greater frequency than at base-line. These findings were present equally as frequent, i.e. 31–34%, 8–13%, 6–7% and 81%, respectively, in those receiving either silymarin or multi-vitamins (P = 0.24–0.97). All physical and mental health variables as measured by the modified SF-36 questionnaires remained the same at 24-months as at 12-months, being markedly improved over base-line testing [1]. However, there were no significant differences in any of these categories between those receiving silymarin and those receiving placebo (P = 0.12–0.85).

Although we have no objective evidence of improvement in physical and hepatic ultrasound examinations, or serum ALT and hepatic fibrosis marker levels, both the silymarin and vitamin placebo groups had fewer symptoms and reported they felt better than prior to participating in the study. They also had no detectable progression of their liver disease over the 24-months. Silymarin at the standard recommended dose was well-tolerated and caused no side effects; but it did not clear HCV RNA better than the vitamin placebo. Thus, the hepatic status of all 141 subjects remained stable during the second year of the RCT and, although it is not particularly surprising, no one developed clinical complications of chronic HCV infection.

Silymarin is being taken by millions of people, including many with HCV infections, at widely different doses in a haphazard manner for ‘liver support’ [2] and [3]. Experimental studies in vitro and in animal models show it and other milk thistle extracts have pharmacological activities that could benefit patients with liver disease [4]. Hundreds of different silymarin and other milk thistle products are marketed and their purity and standardisation is highly variable. Therefore, we evaluated Legalon, the silymarin compound most widely available and frequently used in clinical trials. However, studies of this community-based cohort will require longer than 24-months to show significant objective improvement, if it occurs. Since 420 mg/day of silymarin has had no side effects, a higher dose could be evaluated in future studies of patients with different stages of HCV infection, e.g. acute hepatitis, early or late stages of chronic hepatitis and cirrhosis. These tedious and time-consuming studies require prolonged observation of cooperative subjects may explain why they have not been conducted previously.
Conflict of interest statement


None declared.

That is correct, there is no money in proving that herbal or alternative remedies work. Our government certainly does not want us using those type of remedies for our health. There is big money in health care (including drugs) and insurance.

But just following along and doing what someone else tells you to do for your own health is just plain ignorant. Just look at all the side effects from most of the so called treatments and medicines. My MIL is sitting in a nursing home recovering from having both legs amputated due to taking Daypro, a medicine prescribed by her doctor for years. I have several cases like that in my family, and know about more. There is a place for medical doctors, but you have to be selective and take part in treatments.

katlupe

__________________
Homesteading On The Internet
Solar Baby
Reflections of katlupe