Would you be interested in a natural cure forum?

[primal1]

Originally Posted by Arkie1

BobK, by your responses I wonder, are you saying that if a MD makes a mistake in either a diagnosis or prescription; his patients should never trust him again?
What about Big Pharmaceutical companies who market drugs after doing studies that claim safety but subsequently are proven harmful and even deadly? Wouldn't that be as much cause for suspicion and distrust as your suspicion and distrust of herbal & natural remedies?

Lets not forget they have also been caught marketing drugs for illneses that don't exsist(phyzer England I think it was).

[BobK]

Originally Posted by Arkie1

BobK, by your responses I wonder, are you saying that if a MD makes a mistake in either a diagnosis or prescription; his patients should never trust him again?
What about Big Pharmaceutical companies who market drugs after doing studies that claim safety but subsequently are proven harmful and even deadly? Wouldn't that be as much cause for suspicion and distrust as your suspicion and distrust of herbal & natural remedies?

If a doctor made a mistake in diagnosis or prescription with me I would find another doctor...unless I understood the circumstances behind the errors.....you may have one that graduated at the bottom of their class!

Bringing a drug to market requires a great many steps...and there are numerous sites out there that explain the purpose of Phase I, II, and II trials so I won't try to educate you on the process here. However, it has been recognized for decades that fully 25% of effects...beneficial and adverse are not found out until after a drug is marketed and post-marketing survellence catches these events. The reason for this is quite simple ...it is impossible to account for every single personal polymorphism, disease state, medication interactions, and health status in a clinical trial. Instead they are not discovered until the drugs reach the general popuation....in the USA (prior to drug commercials...which FYI I hate) doctors had the advantage of seeing how a drug performed in patients in Europe prior to prescribing it th=o their own patients...Europe has less stringent standards than the USA does so drugs are marketed earlier there. If this is the goal post no drug would ever make it to market...ever........instead of thousands in a Phase III clinica trial we are now talking about tens or hundreds of thousands and more to detect these effects....and at every step of the way there are data and evidence to support the conclusions and claims....do some try to cheat? ...of course but there is a great deal of scrutiny on the process...and for the most part the system works.....

[BobK]

Originally Posted by primal1

Lets not forget they have also been caught marketing drugs for illneses that don't exsist(phyzer England I think it was).

Link please....just to keep things honest and above board...

[moonwolf]

I'm all for such a forum.
Anyone already posting anything on any forum is basically responsible for their content. So, anyone posting herbal remediies should be good. Those posting thier experiences with home medicines and such is valid. I already see a lot of posts like that in various forums. Might as well consolidate it into one area and be interesitng to view readily that way.

[primal1]

Originally Posted by BobK

Link please....just to keep things honest and above board...

never seen it on the net, heard it on the radio a year or so ago. It wasn't talked about for long but I do remember the company was fined.
This might help find it, they were pushing pills for a feminine disorder that either doesn't exsist or isn't treatable with medication

[BobK]

Originally Posted by primal1

never seen it on the net, heard it on the radio a year or so ago. It wasn't talked about for long but I do remember the company was fined.
This might help find it, they were pushing pills for a feminine disorder that either doesn't exsist or isn't treatable with medication

go for it...find it .....post it....not my claim to back up!

[primal1]

Originally Posted by BobK

go for it...find it .....post it....not my claim to back up!

this isn't the one but it'll do just fine
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004May13.html

[jnap31]

I would be interested

[BobK]

Originally Posted by primal1

this isn't the one but it'll do just fine
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004May13.html

see that wasn't so hard......are there cheats and frauds in every industry...of course....does that make it right...of course not....but they were outed which shows the system does work.......do you have an alternative system or actions that you feel would be more effective?

[Spinner]

Here's some interesting reading. This was taught to me in med training. It's well known in the medical community, but hidden from the public.

http://www.drgrisanti.com/dangerous_medicine.htm

edited to add: I don't want anyone to think I am currently licensed, cause I'm not.

[primal1]

Originally Posted by BobK

see that wasn't so hard......are there cheats and frauds in every industry...of course....does that make it right...of course not....but they were outed which shows the system does work.......do you have an alternative system or actions that you feel would be more effective?

and how does what they did differ from a natural remedy scam?? let us not forget who was calling what industry 'quackery' lol

[primal1]

Originally Posted by Spinner

Here's some interesting reading. This was taught to me in med training. It's a well kept secret in the medical community. http://www.drgrisanti.com/dangerous_medicine.htm

worse than i even imagined!

[savinggrace]

Oh most certainly!
For animals and people!

[Tabitha]

yes I would

[edna74]

yes this would be great

[East Texas Pine Rooter]

What a great idea, the only home remedy I know is peeing on your leg when you rub up next to a bull nettle . That's was when we were kids, running barefoot. I now watch out for them, I think I can wait now to go get the rubbing alcohol. That not much, but it's a start.

[BobK]

Originally Posted by primal1

and how does what they did differ from a natural remedy scam?? let us not forget who was calling what industry 'quackery' lol

It doesn't differ both are fraudulent practices....but it was a isolated incidence unlike that found in the so-called alternative medicine (sCAM) realm....for each instance you present on evidence-based medicine fraud I could point out a hundred in the alternative world.......I could immediately link you to a thousand sites filled with quackery.....well here it is......enjoy LOL

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/thestars.htm

click on a star to view each site.....

[BobK]

Originally Posted by Spinner

Here's some interesting reading. This was taught to me in med training. It's well known in the medical community, but hidden from the public.

http://www.drgrisanti.com/dangerous_medicine.htm

edited to add: I don't want anyone to think I am currently licensed, cause I'm not.

One hting the article lacks is perspective....for instance what percentage of the treated population does this represent? On the other hand something that is not mentioned in the article is what consitutes a medical error...if you dig a bit deeper you will find that a heart attack or stroke patient brought into the emergency room for treatment if/when they die it is attributed as a medical error......they were unable to preserve life but get dinged because they were treated in the hospital.....if a drug is supposed to be given to a patient at a specific time and that is found to deviate....again it counts as a medical error.....for an antibiotic that may be important but for a thyroid medication it won't have any impact...both are medical errors under the classification scheme presented.

As far as it being kept from the public...BS....there are numerous published articles on the topic easily accessed via libraries or the internet ......here is one such article easily accessable to the public.....

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi...f.w4.534v1.pdf

and hospitals have morbidity and mortality meetings each month to review each case and to try and improve their track record......despite what you may wish to believe doctors and hospitals don't really enjoy harming any patient....I think once you look at the overall number of treated pateints....in and out of the hospital you'll find the percentages of harm to be quite low....and successes quite high.....

Does the natural remedy world have a subsittute for the neonatal ICU or ICU unit in general? Where and with what would you wish your loved one being treated in such instances....the ICU ward or with a home remedy?

[Lannie]

I finally figured it out. Sometimes I can be SO dense. I've been bewildered and puzzled about BobK's vehement reactions to this thread and to my mistake, but then I read his post above and it hit me - -

Bob is a pharmaceutical rep! Duh! Of COURSE he's going to belittle anyone who believes in a natural therapy, because it threatens his livelihood. The more people who decide against prescription drugs, the less money in his bank account every month, so it pays for him to bash natural medicine. And the reason he zeroed in on me was because I slandered his employers.

I got all upset about his attitude for nothing. I feel pretty stupid now. But honestly, you can't have a decent discussion about natural medicine when there's a pharma rep in the group that will constantly be causing dissent and strife among the other members, so unless Bob agrees to stay away, I'd give up the thought of any thoughtful discussions.

And now I really AM leaving. Ciao, Bob, go peddle your drugs to someone who wants them.

~Lannie

[BobK]

Originally Posted by Lannie

I finally figured it out. Sometimes I can be SO dense. I've been bewildered and puzzled about BobK's vehement reactions to this thread and to my mistake, but then I read his post above and it hit me - -

Bob is a pharmaceutical rep! Duh! Of COURSE he's going to belittle anyone who believes in a natural therapy, because it threatens his livelihood. The more people who decide against prescription drugs, the less money in his bank account every month, so it pays for him to bash natural medicine. And the reason he zeroed in on me was because I slandered his employers.

I got all upset about his attitude for nothing. I feel pretty stupid now. But honestly, you can't have a decent discussion about natural medicine when there's a pharma rep in the group that will constantly be causing dissent and strife among the other members, so unless Bob agrees to stay away, I'd give up the thought of any thoughtful discussions.

And now I really AM leaving. Ciao, Bob, go peddle your drugs to someone who wants them.

~Lannie

LOL...you should feel REALLY stupid....especially since I work for no drug company....I work with fish! Sturgeon to be more exact....LOL.....sometimes people amaze me with their deductive abilities...othertimes all my expectations are met....like now ...LOL!!

FYI I focused on you because of your claims of knowledge and expertise as well as your incorrect assessment of what cures Ricketts....