Whats wrong with septic service people?

Yes, It could be sold as a camp.
I don't agree that PC has blown his rep up here by comparison shopping. There are lots of folks up here, and not everyone goes by the opinion of a disgruntled contractor.
I've found VT to be unique in that the vast majority of locals do not discriminate against "outsiders". They just don't like buttheads, whether local or imported. Folks I've met tend to take you at your personal value. One of the reasons I like it so much here.
There are a few of course, but it's the exception, not the rule.

PC, before you set up in a bus or RV or mobile home, understand that it gets {{{COLD}}} up here. Yah. The metal walls will creak, twang, groan and twist and bend too. Pipes will freeze and break. Snow will pile up to the windowsills. Ice will give you wonderful opportunities to submit entries to "America's Funniest Home Videos".

Morrison, if you need a good roofer, try Lee's Roofing. I have his number somewhere if you want it. He and his crew just roofed one of our rentals. His prices are terrific, half what anyone else's were, and he did the job quickly and very well.

Intended to post this before but got sidetracked.

the listing stated:

"nice remote place to build your home, seasonal camp, or managed woodlot.. Bring your generator..closest power is 2M away. Bring you snow plow this property is on class 4 road (unmaintained) and you have about 700 feet to maintain. This 10.2 acre parcel is offered at 11,900. Call xxx-xxxx for a viewing."

__________________
"Let the beauty we love, be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." Rumi

The Vermont septic regulations can be found at this website: http://www.anr.state.vt.us/dec/ww/EngServ.htm#Rules

In the state code is an allowance for the installation of septic systems on “poor sites” that have an “Enhanced Prescriptive Design.” Enhanced Prescriptive Design is defined as: “those designs for sites with less than 24” of naturally occurring permeable soil above bedrock and the seasonal high water table that can be designed using generally accepted assumptions about the hydraulic capacity of soils on a specific site.”

The soil requirements for an Enhanced Prescriptive Design are found at Section 1-502(c) of the code (page 69). This section allows for a use of a drainage system to lower the seasonal high watertable depth to a level of at least 18 inches below the soil surface.

I really don’t have time to look at the rest of the code, but there may be a glimmer of hope here for you. If I were you, I would contact another soil evaluator that specializes in “enhanced prescriptive design.” Let him know that you have a parcel with soils having seasonal watertables near the surface and fragipans at a depth of 14 to 19 inches. See what he has to say.

Good luck.

P.S. It appears that Vermont at one time had something called a “10 acre exemption” which exempted property owners from the state septic code. I’m no sure if this is still in effect or not…something you might want to check on.

__________________
This is the government the Founding Fathers warned us about.....

Thanks for the link.. Do you know who I might contact reguarding this exemption. I had read about it before in these codes but no one I've talked with knows anything about it.

__________________
"Let the beauty we love, be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." Rumi

John Miller see: http://www.anr.state.vt.us/dec/ead/pa/barre.htm

Phone: 802/476-0195

john.miller@state.vt.us

__________________
This is the government the Founding Fathers warned us about.....

I guess I did not realize the demand for/ lack of enough contractors etc. in Vermont-- here they are plentiful and usually are willing to give estimates, start as soon as possible and do a jig to get your business...

pcdreams have you considered a composting toilet?

http://www.envirolet.com/

They are cheaper than many septic sytems and I believe they are legal everywhere-- I have a small one to use while camping, during power outages when the water pump is not working and they make them large enough for families to use as their main toilet you clean out the powder a few times a year and they really do not smell... I believe there are ways to recycle the grey water that may be legal as well... anyone know?

Michelle

Composting toilets are NOT legal everywhere. My friends down the road just purchased one for around $1000 as they are going solar and just now found out they MUST install a septic system even though they will never use it. Don't assume anything any more anywhere - could end up costing a bundle.

We looked into composting toilets for this area.

And they do sale them at the MOGFA fair, but to get a building permit you first must have a septic system with a leechfield. Then after you are using the septic system / leechfield, then you can purchase and use a composting toilet after you have already began using the leechfield.

Excellent. Going to give him a call first thing monday. I'll also ask about composting toilets as that was my original plan but I thought they were illegal in VT.

Thanks again CF.

__________________
"Let the beauty we love, be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." Rumi

Composting toilets still require under VT law a full leach field capable of supporting a regular toilet. Yes, I know... go figure. I presume the logic behind this was that "most" people would not use a composting toilet, so as soon as the property changed hands the composter would be heaved out the door and replaced with a conventional toilet. Then there is the question of what a bank will and will not finance.

My understanding is the 10 acre exemption ended last year. Which would explain our frantic efforts to repair our systems before it expired. But I could be wrong.

The ad does say "home" but I'm thinking nobody perked this puppy given how far out it is. For anyone looking at property, especially very isolated property, in a state like VT where the rules apply no matter how remote you may appear to be, this is a sad lesson in "buyer check everything." I'd never have thought that the soils might not support a septic anywhere on a 10 acre property. Who (besides Cabin Fever!) knew?

Bummer of a surprise.

RE: cold. Metal does get BLOODY cold in the winter. If this were my show I'd buy a flatbed trailer and build a cabin on top of it. I think Woodworking had a slick design for a tiny "on a trailer" extremely well designed (complete with little porch, kitchen, loft area, woodstove, AND full bathroom no less) little "cabin on wheels" which would do the trick nicely. Well, unless you've got several kids, in which case it might be a bit crowded. But for a family of two or three it would be cozy but workable even through the winter... if you insulated/protected the pipes. In the "you can do anything for a winter" thing I'd have one vehicle I used to get in and out, haul water, and use an outhouse. You can do anything for a winter. Clothing can be washed at the laundromat. You can take a gym membership for the wife (who might just like a hot soak now and then). Paper plates can be burned in the woodstove. And the little cottage will make a nice guest house someday.

Or chicken coop.

__________________
Icelandic Sheep and German Angora Rabbits

now theres an idea.. And I know someone whos got one (with sides and a top even.. Hmm..

Got me thinking

__________________
"Let the beauty we love, be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." Rumi

My septic designer referred me to an old fella who towes around a nice little john deere backhoe. He dug about 5 5 foot deep holes for $100 bucks. and was outta there in about an hr. another company wanted $100 per hole. I think the designer was $800.

We went thru a lot of trouble with our septic system and the evil inspectors from the county helath department when we were building in northern Arizona. We ended up hiring a "Cabin Fever" from Northern Arizona University and it made all the difference. Everything just slid into place. Of course, it didn't help at all with the evil building department...but that's another story.

There are plenty of contractors in VT.

My goodness, down South the'ah it must really be cold, in the win'tah.

Up he'ah its not nearly so cold, in the win'tah.

We ahr living in a steel building from 'General Steel', not so bad in the cold. Wood stove warms you twice [once tah cutting the wood, and agin when it's burning].

Only real problem we see so fa'ah with the steel building is the condensation. When it gets cold outside, it rains in he'ah. Kerosene heater puts off good heat, but makes it rain worse in he'ah.

I ordered the Spray-in-place foam Friday, should be delivered next Wednesday. We hope that covering the steel sheets with Styrofoam will stop the condensation.

A fella could do the same down South where you are, and in a trailer [or old school bus, or whatever].

__________________
http://www.mofga.org/

http://www.mofga.org/Programs/FarmAp...2/Default.aspx

LOL Sounds neat I guess if you survive those winters in Maine in a steel building PC could make it down south in VT. Does the foam out gas any noxious fumes some would be concerned about like plywood does?

__________________
marching to the beat of a different drummer

Yes it does outgass, no CVCs or VOVS [or whatever those cancer causing chemicals are] just nitrogen.

Other foams outgass water-vapour, it all depends on which manufacturer and the exact chemicals used.

Here I was required to have a special septic system with a hydrosplitter for hillsides. The slope was 6 inches per hundred feet. Wonder when that became a steep slope. Had to bring in dirt to raise the soil a foot for half an acre of land. The 5 foot deep test holes were required to have steps steps and to to be roomy. All the inspectors did with the soil was scratch it with a knife.
All this extra nonsense cost lots more money, which means someones making lots more money. I think its a case of corruption. The departments doing the inspections are charging larger fees to the companies doing the work, while arranging for the companies to be able to charge more to us. So it all works togeather with the average person footing the bill.

I didn't like the part when the inspector would demand rules to be followed so thouroughly while when asked what the rules were, would respond with " I don't know". Its one thing to follow a law thouroughly, its entirely different to follow "I don't know" thouroughly.

Do the glaciers still surge down each winter, ravaging the countryside, up in Maine?

couldn't resist with all the talk about metal twisting, creaking, and bending...

Course, down here, in the summertime, metal creaks, twists, and bends, if it's left out in the bare sun...

__________________
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

ET1 SS, I don't know what part of Maine you live in, but pc might not get to have much of a foundation on bog. That contributes to the bending and twisting of the metal, also the inevitable frost heaves will cause some distortion to the structure. It all depends on a lot of variable. Most of the trailer homes in this area do creak, groan, twang, and twist.
According to the Climate Zone Map, my section of VT is Zone 2b or Zone 3a...plenty cold. Add to that when you get into elevations of mountain passes such as Hazen's Notch, where pc's property is, it is several degrees colder and several inches snowier.

I am not surprised he was able to purchase it for such a low price.