easement by prescription

A logging road is just as the name states. A road the loggers used when taking the timber off the area. It is not a true road. It will not be recorded as after the need for the road was over the road has no other purpose.
In many states it is illegal to sell a landlocked parcel of land. Ther realtor who sold you the land should have known better. The other owner can build his house where ever he wants on his property. It is his.

i know of a family who sued al off the surrounding land owners for a right of way to a land locked parcel and not only won but regained all of the cost of the suit. it is illegal in pa to deny a right of way if a land parcel is land locked.

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this message has probably been edited to correct typos, spelling errors and to improve grammar...

"All that is gold does not glitter..."

Wow, lots of stuff. As I said in my original post and a reply to Big Boy, we are in southern MS. I am up right now, at 1:25am because the smoke is so bad, when the A/C kicks on, the smell is nauseating and it woke me up. When it's not kicked on, it only hurts my throat to breathe. Yes, Mr. Road Guy was "smuldering" earlier today in our burn-banned, severe drought area and I'm not sleeping just in case something goes wrong.

I wouldn't keep diddling around with the realtor. He can't help you. At all. If anything he'll get you in a worse mess. I'd be contacting a real estate attorney ASAP. First thing in the morning I'd be on the phone to one and getting an appointment at his first available opening. Preferably today so you can get the ball rolling. For one the attorney can take over a lot of the hunting and researching and calling tracking down of paperwork. Two he can be the one to start dealing with your neighbor. All of this will relieve you and your husband of the stress of the situation. You won't have to worry about it. The lawyer is handling it. Neighbor calls and wants to know something about the road or gate issue you can direct him to your attorney. You don't have to deal with it. Some obscure piece of paperwork needs to be obtained from the courthouse the attorney runs it down. Something needs to be filed with the court? He does it.

Yeah it costs money but when you're dealing with this legalese crap and the byzantine machinations involved in the system and their profession you almost have to hire them. It's just set up that way.

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Respect The Cactus!

Yeah, but your neighbor does NOT know that you cannot find the easment paper, and you say that it is on his deed as well?

Bluff.

Tell him that you just plain cannot afford to pay half of the gate, and thay you will EXPECT him to respect the easement. He may back down in the interests of keeping a good neighbor who will be there for him.

Deeds are recorded at the county courthouse. If you cannot find a copy of your easement, look at his deed. It is public record. The lady who answers the phone at the curthouse can tell you where the records are.

I'd offer him this compromise - give up your right to use the logging road in exchange for perpetual use of the shared gate and road in writing with it specified that the owner of your property is responsable for maintaining only the portion of the road that is not shared and gets full control over that maintenaince (as in - you can have it dirt if you want, no paving it and making you pay)

Then if I discovered he's going to be totally pig headed about this - call the authorities every time you smell smoke! (you did say there was a burn ban?)

but my advice probably needs to be well salted - I had a "suburbs meets country" neighbor conflict and after two years of misery ended up moving - to land that had a much smaller house in need of extensive rehabilitation but no associations, restrictions, or easements beyond those essential for my water and power.

If I was going to have to spend money - I'd spend it on a lawyer, not a gate and a road. You are setting a tone here. What will he ask next? Do you want him to expect you to roll over or fight?

Don't listen to "unregistered".

For a few hundred bucks, you could probably find a r.e. lawyer to write a letter to him explaining the law, and what the consequences would be if he decides to lock you out. That $15K gate adds significantly to the value of his property, and none to yours. Stick to your guns. This guy could be bluffing just to get money out of you.

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Society has gotten to the point where everybody has a right, but nobody has a responsibility.

Cathy - If I were you (easy for me to say right?), I'd talk to a judge for your area as soon as you can locate one, and get a court order to stop your neighbor from doing anything else until the court can decide who has what right to what use of the property. Your allowing him to continue will be seen as your okay for it if you don't do something immediately. Your best bet might be to talk to the sheriff, who in turn might notify a judge. Just keep trying until you get someone to act in your behalf. Setting this into motion with motivate the other guy to work with you instead of continuing to take advantage of someone who does not like to cause trouble. Just keep repeating to yourself -- I did not start the trouble....I did not start the trouble.

Try not to worry, sometimes the little guy does win out.

Hugs
marlene

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"I don't want everyone to like me; I should think less of myself if some people did."
— Henry James

There is a very real possiblity that the 'logging road' is now an official county road. If it is, it is not only you that the neighbor is violating, but the county. If that road is on the maps, has a name and is marked and has been used for 80 years, it is a ROAD, not your driveway. Roads go through private property all the time and the owner of the surrounding property cannot just decide to park a home/yard in the middle of it. Call an attorney AND your county offices. Find out the status of that road. Also, call the fire department! If there is a burn ban, he isn't supposed to be burning and the fire department needs to come put it OUT. Here we take burns VERY seriously, he would be in SO much hot water!

We have a deeded access to our property through another piece as ours is landlocked too. Our old neighbor never could get it. He also couldn't figure out why his property line was in the middle of the county road on 2 sides of his property and wanted to move his fence to the middle of the road! He thought it was totally unfair that the county had designated our drive through the corner of his property (county ordinace when the land was subdivided before ANYONE bought it, in our county ALL pieces of property are given deeded rights of way before you can subdivide or sell). We are hoping the new owners don't inherit his grudge. All it took for us was a call to the county department that handles deeds and explained what was going on and what he thought and a nice man from the county came out and had a little discussion about how right of ways work. It still made him mad and he was always scheming about how to 'take back his land.' But he quit trying to move the fence over onto our land 6' to compensate himself.

If you have a title policy covering the easement, the claims department of the insurance underwriter will have an attorney for you at no cost. It won't cost you to find out first, before you hire your own attorney. Fax the claims department a copy of your policy along with a coversheet explaining what has transpired (you can cut-and-past the info from your postings here). Include some questions (cut-and-past some of the other forum member's postings) and your address, fax number, email, cell phone, work phone, etc. so they can contact you. Give them 24 hours, then call them to see which attorney your claim was assigned to. Call them everyday until you get some answers. If they say this incident is not covered by their policy, get it writing (hopefully they will fax or write a response). Then you will have to hire your own attorney, but will now have everything ready to copy for his files. Good luck and keep us posted. Do not let the bully neighbor force you into anything "right away". Do not sign or verbally agree to anything for the bully yet. Tell him you are waiting for a response from the attorney (don't elaborate).

I'd hire a good lawyer and be done with all the fretting around.

You need to know for certain what you can and can't do.

What a mess to be in! The property we own now had previously been owned by my wife's parents. People who had land that was landlocked wanted an easement - not to put a house on, but to have it logged. They refused saying he could have access, but not to log. Luckily he came to us to see if we wanted to buy it, and we certainly did. I didn't want to have any other dealings with anybody wanting access.

So if you agree to use his gated driveway and he wants you to pay for half of that, what happens when he wants "his" driveway paved as well. He'll be coming over for his half to have "your" driveway paved.

As has been said, you need to get to a real estate attorney NOW! Also, I since he is burning when a burn ban is on, I'd call 911 to report a fire in your area - you can smell smoke! Owning that much land and his house has to be near your access road - it's not a coincidence - he is purposely trying to control your lives.

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Michael W. Smith in North-West Pennsylvania

"Everything happens for a reason."

It's a difficult situation - from his point of view, he bought the land, figures it is his. I can see that. And he can put his house on any part of his property - other than on top of the easement most likely - so if he wants to build next to you, just how it is.

From your point of view, you have a legal access to your land. I can see that. I also understand the regrets that you didn't get the property as you were thinking of doing.

All past history.

Forget the realitor. They are, after all, salemen - like a used car salesperson. Get it? They aren't there for you after the sale..... I'm sure they'll be nice, but they really can't offer you binding legal advice.

If you want to correct this, you need to talk to a real legal person. Title company is THE place to start, you very well will end up with your own. I hope you called them up today - you need to get on this. No time to feel sorry for yourself. Monday morning for sure!

That would be a better investment of yout $15k than in building someone 1/2 a driveway, and giving up all your rights forever to have access to your road. You have nothing in writing on this new driveway deal????? Forget about it.

Correct this problem, and do it _now_. Time is really important here. Really.

--->Paul

I would like to thank everyone for everything...especially the ideas about how to deal with a new "neighbor."

Good luck Catty, hopefully everything will go well!!

Good luck with it all.

I'm really confused - now you talk about building your own driveway - where will this be located? On whose property? Thought you were land-locked, but if you are considering building your own road, then you must have access somewhere to a road??? That will of course take care of the whole problem!

--->Paul

1) "He says there's an easement on our side of the fence that we can use to build our own road - but he's putting up the gate in two weeks."
2)"we will have to spend money we don't have to either pay for half the gate (which will still be on his property), or put in a road now."

Rambler, above is a quote from my original post and a later post of mine. I know there's a third mention of our own road, too. The point was, we don't have the funds for any of this, and we were told (and he was told, if you read the original post) that the logging road was an easement by prescription. I know he knows this because he made mention of it to me long ago before he even started clearing land. Perhaps I didn't realize what land-locked meant, but it doesn't change the situation. As far as we are concerned, we have no way to get to our property without spending lots of money on some sort of solution, that's all.

See an attorney yesterday and get an injunction to stop road construction until you clear this up.

In no way can he block your access to the property on the road you have been using) that is assuming that it is legally recorded). He can not change the place or position of the easement without approval by you. He can put a gate up but at his cost if it is different from what is in place at this time.

You have the barginning power here. If he wants to change the easement and therefore your access you can negotiate. You are in the power position.

My boss just finished developing property where the easment and it's location was at issue. He had to give to get.

We own and live on property that has an easement that our neighbors use. We can not in anyway change , alter or block their access. All costs for repairs are up in the air unless negotiated.( though I do think we would win in court if they are at fault for damage to the road).

He can do whatever he has the nerve, time and resources unless he is stopped. We spent 3 years and a fortune in court over the same thing because we did not stop it until it was changed. Once it is done no one but us seemed to remember the way it used to be. Do not listen to anyone here including me. See an attorney now!