Vegetarian Homesteading?

PETA, or People for Extortion, Terror, and Abuse, is simply a terrorist organization whose goal is total animal liberation. PETA would like to outlaw fishing, wearing of animal products, circuses, zoos, training animals to help blind, animal research, dog shows, horseback riding, meat eating, beekeeping, pets, farm livestock, and any other captivity of animals. No comments on what happens after all of the animals are let free to their own devices; and the fashion, medical, and food industries suffer.

Scary? Their goal isn't even their worst feature. Their worst feature is their 750,000 members world-wide. One of these members is Rodney Coronado, a leader in the Animal Liberation Front, or ALF. He goes to schools to give PETA presentations and teaches children how to make simplified explosive devices. He was convicted of firebombing an MSU research lab in protest of their use of animals. In just the year 1995 he was given over $70,000 by Ingrid Newkirk (president of PETA) for his "services" to PETA. Then there's Gary Urofski, the official orator for PETA. He also goes to schools and "educates" children. He tells them that eating animals is just unnatural, and promotes the use of violence against people who eat meat. He compares himself to MLK, Nelson Mandella, Gandhi, and Jesus... but I don't think any of these people were arrested 13 times for vandalism, arson, property distruction, and violence.

Back to the ALF group that I mentioned breifly earlier. They're a prize-winning bunch, themselves. *note sarcasm* They are responsible for firebombing multiple animal research facilities around the world, vandalizing houses/cars/labs/shelters, protesting in front of and destroying property around civilian houses and animal shelters, and they have been recorded multiple times threatening to kill meat eaters, shelter workers, and lab workers. PETA claims no association with ALF, but their financial records state otherwise.

My point in posting this? Don't even think about letting your daughter anywhere near PETA if you value her innocence and good nature. There are plenty of other animal-loving groups that operate in a respectable manner.

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As far as vegetarian homesteading goes, you should really talk to your daughter's doctor. Vegetarian lifestyles can bring complete nutrition, but many children don't understand what constitutes a nutritionally balanced meal plan. Make sure she is getting enough of each essential vitamin and mineral, protein, carbohydrates, essential fats and oils, and that she isn't using this as an excuse to become what I call a "junkatarian." Also, watch her soy intake, as soy has been shown to interfere with normal digestion and can contain toxic amounts of certain elements. http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html is a good website with information about soy.

Good luck with everything!

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Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.
Mark Twain

How about getting back to being a vegetarian?

Excellent idea and no problems getting all the protein, vitamin, and minerals needed. But, you effectively have to become a vegetarian for your child, she is a child, an apparently thinking intelligent person.

However, you must guide her to the simple concepts about sources protein. The other needed items by the body are much better supplied by a vegetarian diet than meat diet.

An ADULT needs 58 grams for a woman, or 70 grams for a man (really, that must relate to body weight, physical activity, strength, more than gender -- though that may have something to do with it too -- doctors or dieticians can answer better.) Teenagers 13 -15 boys or girls need around 80 gm a day.

Nearly everything has protein in it, but here's some concentrated sources:

meat protein examples:

• Fish 3 oz 19 gm
• Steak 3 oz 19 gm
• Chicken 3 oz 20 gm
• Pork 3 oz 20 gm

NON meat protein examples to compare:

• Bocca burger (no meat) 18 gm
• Peas 1 C cooked 20 gm
• Peanuts 1 C 39 gm
• Tofu 1/4 C 9.4 gm
• Asparagus 1 C 4 gm
• Brussel sprouts 1 C cooked 6
• Potatoes 1 medium 3
• Bread wheat 1 slice 2 gm
• Macaroni and cheese 1 C18
• Oatmeal (uck -- gag -- eat something else) 1 C 5 gm
• Milk 1 C 9 gm
• Cheese 1 oz 7 gm
• Egg 6 gm
• etc. . . . almost everything has some protein in it.

Companies and products which are veggie meat like substitutes, high in protein, taste great, can be used along with meat products for those who don't eat meat:

• Boca burgers -- excellent
• Moingstar Farms - burger patties -- excellent
• Moingstar Farms Chik patties -- excellent
• Moingstar Farms Grillers -- E
• Moingstar Farms Veggie breakfast bacon strips –veggie meats, veggie hot dogs . . .
• There are many other companies . . . a vast selection is available of excellent products

NO need to eat meat if you don't want to. On the other hand, no need to not eat meat either.

All the best to us,

Alex

P.S. Vegetarian for last 6 years, and 30 years ago for 5 years, in between -- lots of meat, hunting, fishing, raising (and butchering). That's why I like the meat substitute manufactured products. You can make gluten and other products yourself too.

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Thou art That

I think Edayna was just kidding about the PETA part....she used the wink smiley

Nice post,Alex. I was vegetarian for years,starting in my early teens. With a balanced diet excluding meat,I didn't have any health problems.

I have been a vegetarian for nearly 20 years now ... I do eat eggs and drink milk. Both are easy to raise on a homestead. Even a small homestead will support a milk goat!

Edayna, please encourage your daughter to educate herself about nutrition ... whether or not she decides to go the vegetarian route, she still will arm herself with information that will hopefully help her make good dietary choices!

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"I love all of this mud," said no one, ever.

how do you raise even goats without killing or being responsible for a goat being killed? your goat has to have kids every year to stay in milk and the boys are going to be eaten more than likely even if by someone else.

if you still drink or eat milk products you can't get away from an animal being killed even if you don't do the killing or eating. not trying to be confrontational but in my own thoughts of becoming a vegatarian, there really is no way to get completely away from an animal dying as long as you eat milk products BTW, I still eat meat because I've decided there really is no guilt free vegetarian diet (for me, at any rate. I don't think I could live on beans and tofu).

Well if you are a vegetarian because you don't want to kill an animal then you would probably have to go strict and become a vegan.

I have no problem with the males being eaten - I just have no desire to be the one doing the eating. Until they are of suitable size to be some elses meal they are raised humanely, so no guilt for me.

I'm a total opposite of yall. I can't eat too much veggies or I have serious dirrhea and gas problems. I have had to change from whole milk to 2% then now am down to 1%. I have severe gas if I drink whole milk. When I have some meat, my body does extremely well on it except for some weight gain which I take care of by excercising and balancing my food with SOME vegs and fruits. Totally opposite to yall guys, right?

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Ted H

You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas.
-Davy Crockett

I'm actually very suprised by how many of you are veggies. I have been my entire life (am now 26) I do eat eggs, cheese etc . I was just raised this way, i could eat meat if I wanted to ...I just look at a burger king whooper and it doesn't appeal to me. I like others, have no problem with the killing , in nature thigns die all the time... I wonder though if a veggie diet reduces your risk of eating chimicals that might hurt your heatlh. I know many of you take great pride in your animals but alot of meat people eat is very supspect. I know veggies have chimicals sprayed on them too so it might be a mute point ...

Jeff

Actually, I eat more meat than I want to because my body ALSO does better if I have it. The older I get the less I LIKE it, but I need to eat it anyways. I would happily cut my meat consumption in half, but I make myself eat it anyways.

I guess we are all built differently.

From what I have read recently, if you feel this way it would be worth trying other vegetable proteins. It takes a little time to adapt to anything. They are saying that a diet balanced with healthy foods and mainly veg protein are better off long-term. Less heart diseaste, strokes and some cancers. If you're body 'craves' meat you are likely missing something in your diet. Like if you eat a lot of processed food you crave refined carbs. It's worth researching. Even the Inuit who traditionally ate all meat, have adapted to a more "western" diet, for better or worse.

The way I see it in the whole SHTF scenario, realistically it would be a leaner diet with fish (wild in my case or farmed if your climate allows), poultry for eggs and meat as they come available (but probably not "meat birds" of course unless you have the means), and maybe rabbits. A lot of the other animals just plain eat too much over winter to be completely realistic anyways. I'm sure we'd all learn rapidly the benefits of easily grown vegetable proteins like beans.
I don't think I'd want to waste all my precious water and limited fuel/man hours making hay for some big fat cattle, only for meat that would spoil pretty darn quickly.
Well that's how I see it.

The problem with my metabolism is that I am now carb intolerant and a type 2 diabetic.

Vegetable protien has too many carb exchanges for me, and it is digested too quickly for my system. Beans are very good, but I cannot eat my fill of them without my blood sugar going too far up, and then the meal does not stay with me so that even though I eat between-meal snacks I get hungry too soon. For me, beans are usually a side dish to go with a hamburger patty or something.

Meat, fish, and eggs are digested more slowly and help to stabilize my metabolism.

I don't know what carb intolerant is, but I understand the diabetic issue and meat balancing act through a friend in the same boat.
Just something to consider- how about trying buckwheat noodles (soba noodles they're called at the grocery store), veggie burgers- but the ones that are soy. I find soy as a protein digests really really slow. A glass of soy milk will actually fill you up.
There are quite a few good carbs that don't digest too fast, but buckwheat noodles are a great one, same with brown rice. I don't eat white anything anymore. Good luck with it.

Through a vegetaritan diet, eating a low Glycemic Index diet, and reducing weight it is possible to reverse onset of type 2 diabetes. Possible without being vegetarian too, just easier.

The CARBS are not the problem. It's the Glycemic Index of those carbs. You need to eat from the low to medium GI lists. Meat is not required, not not-required either.

For instance these are quickly absorbed high GI foods, which cause blood sugar to spike:

• bagels
• donuts (yum)
• french fries

These are low GI foods and tend to level out the blood sugar levels:

• yellow split pea -- indian chana dal (yum)
• breakfast Irish-oatmeal [(not the regular which is higher) - yuck to either type]
• very small amount of meat, if any, is better
• best for protein is cup of cooked peas, beans, chickpeas, or lentils (protein and iron without fat)
• veggie burgers, tempeh, and tofu are high protein legumes

Low Glycemic Index Foods (less than 55) examples:

• Apricots, dried 31
• Barley 25
• beans, lima (yum) 25
• Beans, Kindeny canned 52
• beans, kindeny, fresh, 27
• bread 100% stone-ground whole wheat 53
• etc.

Medium Glycemic Index Foods (55 to 70) examples:

• beets, 64
• bread, white, 70
• corn, fresh (yum) 55
• hamburger bun, 61
• ice cream 10 fat, 61 (too many calories to eat too much though), 61
• pizza, cheese, 60
• popcorn, 55, potatoes, new 62
• rice, brown, 55, white, 56, basmati 58
• soup green pea, 66
• spaghetti, 55
• tortilla, corn, 70
• etc.

High Glycemic Index Foods (more than 70) examples:

• bagel plain, 72
• bread french, 95
• corn chips, 72
• doughnut, 76
• dates, dried (yum), 103
• french fries 75
• jelly beans, 80
• puffed rice 90
• rice, instant, 91
• etc.

The idea is you can mix high with low to eat any thing you want, but the net effect should be to have a lower GI food average. Sounds like lots of fanatical work, but once it's in your mind it's automatic thought process.

From, The Friendly Carbs, editors of PREVENTION Health Books, Rodale Inc , 2002, http://www.rodalestore.com, (800) 848-4735. I am not connected with this company, I don't have stock in it, just seems like good information.

I guess anything will work if we do it -- that's my problem -- for sure.

Good luck to us health-hopefuls,

Alex

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Thou art That

The glycemic index is not enough for me, though I plan my carbs around it. It DOES help! I can eat twice as many carbs without problems if I choose them with the help of the GI index!

But my system still runs much better when I eat meat.

For anybody who may want to try out choosing their carbs according to the glycemic index, here are a couple of easy meals.

Chili on those cold days is a low-glycemic food: I like it with whole-wheat bread. To alter it according to my own metabolism I make sure it has meat in it, and drink diet soda or anything non-carb. Salad is the perfect side dish, if you stay away from sweet dressings.

Stir-fry for dinner is great for the hot summer days. Low-glycemic vegetables that are good in it are cabbage, bell pepper, celery, tofu if you like it, and a little sliced onion (higher glycemic) for flavor. Stir fry with soy and, if you wish, a bit of ginger. To increase the protien content, a big scoop of peanuts or cashews on top of the finished meal will help balance the meal and taste great as well.

Serve this over brown rice or jasmine rice. Or, if you hate both, make the rice portion of the meal much smaller.

To alter this recipe for my own needs, I add chicken or beef to the stir-fry.

To the original poster--I just wanted to say that non-vegetarians always seem to think that it will be difficult to go veggie, but actually I've found being vegetarian to be very easy, especially if you do most of your own cooking. It's generally cheaper, healthier, lower fat/calorie, and more varied than the standard American diet. For the sake of background, my mom became vegetarian at age 12 and is still very healthy today. I grew up eating meat, but became vegetarian by my own choice also at age 12. I became vegan at age 16, and started eating milk and eggs again two years ago (at age 23) when I found friends/local homesteaders who raise their animals humanely and don't kill the animals or sell them to be killed for food.

Right now I don't live in a place where I can have animals, but I am growing the largest garden I can fit on our property, and hope to be able to supply almost all of our veggies (and some fruits) for the summer and fall, and most of the veggies for the winter. Eventually I would like to have laying hens, and a small herd of milk goats. With the goats, my plan would be to try to have one or two milking does at one time, and keep them in milk for as long as possible (until they dried up on their own), so I wouldn't have to re-breed too often. I would commit to keeping any kids they produced (basically as pets), unless I could find them a suitable pet home or other home where they would be kept to my standards. And you can bet I would be looking for a genetic line of goats that did NOT have a history of large multiple births. You might want to check out fiascofarm.com for ideas on how a working goat farm does this. I know that that is NOT the cheapest way to run a homestead, but I think that I will be able to afford it (the same way that I afford the three dogs I keep as pets now), and it is the only way that I feel I could ethically keep goats/use milk products in line with my own morals.

I wouldn't worry too much about protein if I were you. I took a nutrition class in the nursing school while I was in college, and the RN/certified nutritionist that taught it (AND the course textbook) argued that the average American gets FAR too much protein, and that people should really be concerned with increasing the variety of vegetables in their diet, and increasing the amount of fiber, vitamins, and minerals that they get. Alex provided a great list of protein contents in non-animal based food, and also don't forget your dark leafy greens (spinach, kale, chard, etc.) that are chock full of everything good, from protein to iron to calcium and many other vitamins and minerals. A vegetarian with a balanced diet generally does NOT need any dietary supplements like pill vitamins. And as long as you don't go entirely vegan, you really don't need to worry about getting enough B12, either. Variety is the key, and I can tell you that I get a lot more variety in my diet than the average american. In my small garden alone this year, I have tomatoes, potatoes, asparagus, parsnips, beets, turnips, leeks, celeriac, onions, garlic, peppers, cucumbers, eggplant, radishes, lettuce, kale, chard, butternut squash, pumpkins, watermelon, zucchini, beans, peas, carrots, broccoli, brussels sprouts, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, blueberries, tons of herbs, and some other things that I'm sure I'm forgetting. I wish everyone could take a nutrition class, or at least pick up a good nutrition textbook (and I mean a textbook, NOT some fad diet book or some popular author promoting a certain style of eating). Most meat eaters in this country are far more in need of some dietary supplements or a total diet overhaul than lots of vegetarians I know.

Being vegetarian and mostly vegan is the primary thing that led me to learn to cook for myself (not much to eat out at most restaurants). I didn't learn to cook at home, and I maybe never would've if I weren't vegetarian/vegan. There are so many great and creative recipes out there!! We eat like gourmets in my house! And now, since I have eggs from friends, I have learned to bake, too. Also, getting goat milk from friends forced me to learn how to make cheese, yogurt, whipped cream, ice cream, etc., which are all neat and fun homesteading skills. Being vegetarian and especially vegan has also forced/helped me to eat healthy. When I see all of the ingredients that go into food because I'm cooking it, I'm less likely to eat things full of fat and calories. And even if I'm not cooking it, I have to read all of the ingredients on any packaged food I get, so I always see if its chock full of corn syrup and oil or whatever. Also, if I want junk food, I pretty much have to make it myself--no going to dunkin donuts or Baskin Robbins or Pizza Hut or McDonalds for me. So it's harder all around to eat bad-for-you food. I came to vegetarianism for moral reasons, but now I think it is the greatest health gift I could ever have gotten.

You're wonderful to be taking your daughter seriously, and to allow her to follow her conscience and become the person she wants to be. Good luck with your quest--I'm sure it will be a fun and interesting one!

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And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb.. And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.. They shall not hurt nor destroy In all my holy mountain For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord.