How do you do it? Budgeting

Meg Z · #**181** 05/27/06, 09:25 PM

Well, I'd never looked at any of MC's websites (until now). However, I would certainly never regard any website as The Truth! They are advertising, pure and simple. Fluff. I look at websites pretty much like I do used car lots. And I consider it my responsibility to always verify everything.

That said...MC, if you were closer, I'd take a good hard look at that moorit ram lamb you have for sale. Just what I'm looking for! You have too many moorits, I don't have enough!

And PCdreams, I'm sure you'll get your financial issues sorted out. Lots of good advice thrown on the table here. Best of luck to you.

Meg

Obser · #**182** 05/27/06, 09:40 PM

Reading this thread I have learned a great deal about some members, much of which verified earlier general impressions. A little "pressure" brings out interesting characteristics, perhaps revealing much more than the person might have intended.

Emotional displays and personality clashes in discussion often lead to disclosure of information or attitudes that might have stayed well out of view if discussion stayed calm and rational.

I am not tempted to put anyone on my ignore list because I value knowing what is being said by the people involved; however, I have gained useful information about whom to respect and whose words to regard with caution.

Interesting.

Qwispea · #**183** 05/27/06, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obser

Reading this thread I have learned a great deal about some members, much of which verified earlier general impressions. A little "pressure" brings out interesting characteristics, perhaps revealing much more than the person might have intended.

Emotional displays and personality clashes in discussion often lead to disclosure of information or attitudes that might have stayed well out of view if discussion stayed calm and rational.

I am not tempted to put anyone on my ignore list because I value knowing what is being said by the people involved; however, I have gained useful information about whom to respect and whose words to regard with caution.

Interesting.

..so 'predictable' to see you rise to your own level again..and interject highly-opinionated diatribe that is absolutely unrelated to the topic.

You rock Obser!

pcdreams · #**184** 05/27/06, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stown

What an interesting turn this thread has taken.....

Indeed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shygal

I bet you wont be showing all your contacts this thread now, to discredit PC, eh?

I was honestly ready to forgive and forget MC.. I'm not going to argue with you anymore.. but I don't feel I can trust you after the past few post in this thread.
Don't worry though.. I'm not going to make any threats that might endanger you future "virtual" business ventures. LOL

I do thank you for the advice about the temp agencies however. The idea about web sites is good also.. minus the "virtual" businesses

KindredSpirit · #**185** 05/27/06, 10:33 PM

Good luck to you pcdreams and keep us posted. The one good piece of advice I gleaned from MC is that it is good to have experience listed. If you have done any freelance work for anyone or worked in any capacity in your field it would look good on your resume'. I do understand how you must have felt when you started this thread. It is hard to have that many months go by without a bite. Very discouraging, but I am sure a job is just around the corner for you. Hang in there!

gilberte · #**186** 05/28/06, 06:12 AM

Wow, had a little extra time so I decided to wade through this thread this morning. Sorry PC, I don't have any advice for you that hasn't already been given, well maybe I could reiterate that it might be best to watch your attitude as you search for employment. You could be the best IT person on the planet, but if you come across to a potential employer as egotistical and self-centered they're gonna pass you by for someone maybe a little less qualified, but easier to get along with.

Don't sell MC short, in the field of advertising and image building I'm sure she does well. I'd bet she takes great pains to paint the best possible picture without actually lying, that's just the nature of business these days. You must learn to read critically and decipher for yourself what is real and what is smoke and mirrors. I didn't say I like it that way, it's just the way it is.

P.S. I don't have anyone on my ignore list, don't wanna miss anything

**Terri** · #**187** 05/28/06, 06:22 AM

pc, mc WAS trying to help you, and you were RIGHT to think it was time to make peace.

I disagree with what she does with her websites: the REST of her advice was golden!

MorrisonCorner · #**188** 05/28/06, 06:39 AM

Pfew! Checked the site and the moorit ram is still for sale... had me going there for a moment (I've sold Kiva Han, my cheerful polled moorit boy.. if a sheep can be considered "cheerful" this guy is it.. to a farm in Virginia... my sheep are going to be better traveled than I am!).

Re: gilberte's observation that image building is just the way of business today... this is true, and yet implies that this wasn't true at some point in time. Which isn't true. I bet during the crusades run down castles were being put on the market under the label "historic" or "in need of a few feminine touches" which meant they were crumbled wrecks!

The difference today is in the level of sophisticated research available to even the smallest image building house. We know, for example, how your eyes move on a computer screen. How much information you can process at any given moment. What attracts you so you "see" it and what you "see" on the page that never really registers in your brain. Ever looked at a sophisticated (think "major company") site and had trouble finding a contact us link... but the FAQ and Help links were easy to spot? Right. Not likely that was an oversight.

Truly sophisticated designers use research to do more than "project a positive image." They get right inside your head at a pretty basic level. One of my favorite brands for this (and yes, I own one) is the Mini Cooper. Owning a Mini Cooper isn't about getting from here to there. For that, you buy a Honda and spend about $3000 less (same MPG but less handling... so let's take $1500 for handling.. and call it "$1500" extra to own the Mini).

What are you "buying" for that $1500?

Well... absolutely PHENOMINAL customer service from beginning to end. From website to phone contacts to the dealership I've never seen customer service like Mini does customer service. How do they do it? Very sophisticated databases. Our Mini just turned one year old. Mini sent it an online birthday card, referred to the Mini by its "name" (my husband calls it "Nugget," or, as he told the dealership "Mr. Nugget to you." The card came to "Mr. Nugget."). Mini reminded my husband to use high quality waxes on his Mini and to "take it out for regular exercise." (they should have reminded US to go out for regular exercise.. the Mini gets plenty!)

Mini regularly sends us little promotional items and reminders of fan websites and Mini gatherings where, literally, hundreds of Mini owners get together to drive around curves. Real fast. The towns which host these events rake it in, and probably also look wicked cute for a weekend. But the point is, with every carefully considered and cute promotion Mini Cooper is building absolutely fanatical brand loyalty. Now... if the Mini weren't so much fun to drive, weren't so cute, weren't so amazingly roomy in the driver/passenger seats (trunk space is nonexistent... but as someone said on a forum: if you buy something called a "mini" and then complain about how small it is, you've got a problem!), and didn't corner like it was nailed to rails... it would be hard to convince someone through sophisticated promotions that it was.

But Mini Cooper drivers can afford (usually) Audis or BMWs, so to set itself apart Mini builds on adorable and a "be happy" theme to keep owners feeling like they're part of a big happy Mini family. Mini owners are constantly reminded by the company to "drive nice" and wave to other Mini owners.

How is this applicable to your own businesses? It shows what a carefully thought out, fully integrated, brand can do to build and sustain loyalty. We're talking about a go-cart of a car here with no trunk space. Have you noticed the new ads for these small cars on TV? They are remarkably similar to the Mini ads. Cute, bouncy, "friendly" little cars.

So let's extrapolate this to... your tomatoes. You want to go to the farmer's market and sell your tomatoes and you decide you're going to mark them up ten cents higher than the stall across the way. Competition be damned... you want more for your tomatoes. How do you get more? You brand them as "special." You create a cute, friendly, tomato brand which makes people feel warm and fuzzy about spending an extra ten cents a pound to buy the nice tomatoes, vs. the plain old boring tomatoes in the stall across the way.

Does it work? Um... yea, it does. Think "pet rocks." Cute, adorable, sexy... they all sell because they get into your head and meet some basic human need. Smoke and mirrors aren't new, we've just learned which color smoke will reach in and feed some deep emotional need while building loyalty to our products.

gilberte · #**189** 05/28/06, 07:06 AM

Obviously what you say is true. What amazes me is that these companies stay in business. I mean yes, you may be able, through clever advertising, get me to try your higher priced tomato once, but if it doesn't taste any better than the cheaper tomato I'm certainly not going to pony up the extra money a second time.

And what sane person relies on television commercials and advertising for major purchases such as a car? I'd rather try Consumer Reports, or epinions on line, or some other source who can tell me how the car performs and how reliable it is based on ownership experience.

The ads are okay for entertainment, but they seldom tell you anything useful about the product. I don't think it was so much a buy and sell deal with the castles, wasn't it more of a take it and keep it if you could situation?

mpillow · #**190** 05/28/06, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilberte

Obviously what you say is true. What amazes me is that these companies stay in business. I mean yes, you may be able, through clever advertising, get me to try your higher priced tomato once, but if it doesn't taste any better than the cheaper tomato I'm certainly not going to pony up the extra money a second time.

And what sane person relies on television commercials and advertising for major purchases such as a car? I'd rather try Consumer Reports, or epinions on line, or some other source who can tell me how the car performs and how reliable it is based on ownership experience.

The ads are okay for entertainment, but they seldom tell you anything useful about the product. I don't think it was so much a buy and sell deal with the castles, wasn't it more of a take it and keep it if you could situation?

Which is precisely how a budget conscious person gets the most bang for their buck.....
And I would grow my own tomato....for fear of someone like MC misrepresenting a "special" tomato full of commercial fertilizers and pesticides

Jen H · #**191** 05/28/06, 07:23 AM

You would be surprised how many people will go out of their way to spend more money for a "cute" or "value added" tomato that in reality doesn't taste any better than any other tomato out there.

One of the local farmers, a really nice guy, has people paying a full dollar more a pound for his honey crisp apples than other honey crisp apples are going for. When his apples hit the store, little fliers and signs also appear showing a cute little barn surrounded by happy apple trees. He's in the middle of the photo wearing kind of grubby clothes and smiling. He's sold a vision of a wonderful little farm where you can come out and commune with nature and pick some incredibly wonderful apples. His fruit isn't any better than any other fruit out there, it's his brand that sells out and sells at a higher price than the competitors.

He spent years building that brand, and building that loyalty. He makes sure his farm name appears several times a year on various charitable causes - he sponsores floats in the local parades, supplies apple juice for walk-a-thons, that sort of thing. He makes sure he's part of the Chamber of Commerce and other influential business groups, just to keep the farm name out there in the public. It works.

MorrisonCorner · #**192** 05/28/06, 07:31 AM

*laugh* probably.. but imagine the peasants with the crumbling castle sending out broadsides to attract a better class of knight! One with castle repair skills... or a budget to hire artisans...

I think, gilberte, you're "missing" (which is not a bad thing.. and probably puts you well ahead of the game) the entertainment value of consuming the tomato. It isn't about economic efficiency to most people. Consumption is about emotion.. feeling good in some way. We'll assume the two tomatoes are absolutely equal but for price. The branded tomato, however, "speaks" to the consumer and makes them feel good about supporting the cute farm over the plain old vegetables in the ground farm. Someday I'd like to do an informal study using my own farmers' market and see if what I suspect is true is true in fact: the hairy guy with the baskets of stuff doesn't start really making sales until the cute young women with the tank tops and vegetable tags that have faces on them sell out. The girls put the small, bite sized, stuff right down at kid eye level with cute little tags on them reminiscent of childrens' book illustrations.

Now... the two baskets of cherry tomatoes may be absolutely identical as to content in every way. But my guess is that she sells out first, and I also bet, although I've never bothered to look too carefully, that her stuff is consistently a few pennies more here and there.

Owning one small car vs owing another at some level stops being about basic transportation and starts being about "fun." Or "image." The Audi or BMW driver is a performance car driver.. so it is about "road feel." In other words: pleasure. In the same way that one cotton dress is pretty much like another, and if it gets right down to it, a fabric sack with a hole punched in it for your head will probably keep you decently covered.. but I'm going to buy something that makes me feel pretty. Not like a body in a sack!

This is why any conversation about simplicity (or homesteading) which you're having with an unbeliever needs to focus on the pleasure of the whole thing... not on what one is giving up, but on what one is gaining. One of my favorite selling points to the "simplicity" lifestyle is pointing out that before I started simplifying my life I never had fresh flowers around the house. Now I have time to gather and fuss with flowers.

I do not point out that to manage my "simple" lifestyle I use two calendar programs on a computer and a sophisticated spreadsheet... without which I'd forget important things like when to worm sheep! Takes a lot of the romance out of life. I let them discover that aspect of "simplicity" all on their own.

Back to our little farmer in a tank top... she's just more careful with her image and branding and people buy into that. It makes them happy to do business with the friendly carrots with their funny faces. They're not buying "carrots." They're buying "support the nice farmer." They're buying "cute vegetables my kids actually asked for."

You, on the other hand, are buying a tomato. With no romance in it whatsoever. So you don't pay for romance. But an awful lot of people do, and if you cater to them you'll get more for your tomato.

gilberte · #**193** 05/28/06, 08:17 AM

And of course you know as well as I do that the cute girl in the halter top (my version) is just advertising gimmick and a prop set, that this girl wouldn't know a hoe from a horn worm, and that it is actually the hairy guys tomatoes to begin with

MorrisonCorner · #**194** 05/28/06, 08:36 AM

*laugh* quite possible. In fact, I find that idea positively delightful!

jnap31 · #**195** 05/28/06, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorrisonCorner

If you're going to go through life convinced (and perhaps in some cases rightly so) that employers are bad and evil it seems to me you might want to find yourself working for yourself. Then you'd know you'd have an employer worthy of your talent and ready to compensate you in the manner you feel entitled to. If you're going to move up to VT you might want to consult with the site DreamVermont.com which offers advice on being a "company of one."

You have given some good advice mixed in with your scating rebukes and I think this is the best yet, I took all the tests my self at various times and self employed is where I belong with my personality farming was one of the top things that came up and that suits me just fine. Though I have demonstated that I can also work hard and well as an employee. Qwispea I know it is true that MC made some good points and such I recognize all that the fact is I have been writing to pcdreams a few months now and consider him a friend so I am just trying to defend him. We share a lot of the same views on lots of stuff so I dont have to lie to defend him. I just got a pm saying MC is a man and admits it! I am pretty upset I guess i am just to trusting why would someone lie about their gender?

jnap31 · #**196** 05/28/06, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorrisonCorner

Building on the "build yourself a website" suggestion, the husband has said "you better spell out how he should handle that with a potential employer."

Let us first and foremost bear in mind that on the web... nobody knows you're a dog. I have been quoted in national magazines (the four color glossy "Vogue Knitting" type magazines) as an expert on keeping a backyard flock of sheep or chickens based on nothing more than my websites. I've been contacted via email, had an email or phone conversation with a writer, and presto... several months later some rather powerful, beautifully free, four color, publicity.

The fatal flaw? At the time I was quoted as an expert in the keeping of sheep... we had no sheep. Had never had sheep. The website was built out of clip art and pixie dust.

The object of the game is to set up a website which is so credible, so professional, it is accepted as "truth" immediately. So, from clip art, pixie dust, and his background in IT pc sets up his "virtual consulting business" on a website. He populates it with some articles based on papers he did in college, makes it sharp and professional, outlines the "services" he offers which (conveniently) match the bullet points of his resume, and Boom. A "business" is born.

Now he's pcdreams@pcdreams.com... entrepeneur. Applying for a job.

What do I see as an employer? When I visit his site I see:

He's started a business... so I make the assumption (possibly not valid in this case, but nevertheless) that he's got some business background and skills... to whit he at least understands profit and loss. Nice little Dig in here it is really hard to sort out your helpful suggestions from your hurtful "digs"

I think what you describe is the very definition of dishonesty and fraud, I am to honest a person to ever do anything like you suggested and have done. This story really really makes you lose whatever cool points you had in my estimation of you.

jnap31 · #**197** 05/28/06, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MorrisonCorner

We live in interesting times. People have always "massaged their resumes" to appear as qualified as possible, creating a "virtual reality" on paper. Now we're able to project that "reality" in four color. But it all boils down to the same thing: projecting a "be all we can be" picture of ourselves so we can sell the best of what we are.

What an interesting and disgusting explanation for deceiving people. I will never need to "package" myself in a lie to sell something or get a job and I dont think Pc dreams needs to either.

jnap31 · #**198** 05/28/06, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shygal

After admitting that you are all smoke and mirrors, tell me WHY on EARTH anyone should listen to your advice?? Why should pcdreams listen to your advice on what to do to be hired in Vermont? Its probably all virtual reality too, that you have no experience or clue about EITHER.

I hope you are having a good chuckle over your virtual reality. Your credibility has gone down the toilet with me.

DITTO and I am considering making you the first person I put on Ignore and joining pcdreams in that department. I just hate the thought of missing something intelligent that you might say so I probably will not do it. I am sorry shygal I am sure their are real farms out there just as good or better than the pertend ones you found on the internet.Dont lose hope shygal there are a lot of honest folks in the world (telling you that for myself as much as you.)

jnap31 · #**199** 05/28/06, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KindredSpirit

MC, not to be rude, but maybe posting on a public forum that your websites are all smoke and mirrors wasn't YOUR best business move!! LOL

VERY true! but I am not LOL I am still at this point very saddened that the world is turning out to be such a fake. I have always been to trusting I hope that I learn my lesson well this time.

jnap31 · #**200** 05/28/06, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morningstar

Online I've always been pretty much what I am. I've always wondered if anyone else is really telling the truth about much. Kind of on the honor system on the net. I guess now I have the answer to my question.

Morningstar speaking for myself I can say that I have always spoken the truth as I percieve it, in everything I write. I have nothing to hide and I am uniqe enough as I am I dont need to make anything up. I think that is a pathology atleast we know it is not a modern day thing I am sure I can think of a dozen examples from the 18th and 19th centuries of quackery. Now the quaks can jsut reach a bigger audience easier. And with the population 6 billion now, their are a lot more of us "suckers" and another one born every minute (trusting folk) to fall for it.