consumerism

I think about the same things your not nuts at all, I think their are many on this froum with the same values you have now, I am just thankful that I have always had these values and have never strayed.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

[QUOTE=Burbsteader]I agree MorrisonCorner that it is possible to celebrate other people's lives without wanting to live them.

Which is why, when I come across a thread that I realize doesn't apply to me or discusses something that in the end doesn't appeal to me, I walk away from the discussion. It's my way of celebrating and Supporting our differences.

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I would be better off doing that but I cant help jumping in with my two cents I guess I have more in common with morrisonscorner than I thought ick!

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

[QUOTE=Arklady]. Getting crap on my hands and cleaning out my pens ensures me that my animals are healthy and I can rest knowing that I can eat one of my birds or animals and they are healthy and fed as best I can.
LOL I get crap on me and it does not bother me but it drives my wife crazy.
What I can't do it butcher alone. I can do it but I need help.
Me to that is why I have a wife she helped me butcher our bull last fall.
I know how but I have to have help with the heavier or *slippery* parts. It's just me. My son loves the products we raise but would rather give me money than help... My husband is the same way. BUT if I need that hay loaded my son or hubby is there for me. We are learning to work together.

Being frugal is ok in its area. I personally live in an area where if its in a garage sale its not useable most likely. Because most ppl use the furniture or anything else you want till it is no longer valuable. Because of that I end up buying most of what I need new which I hate new stuff cause it isn't as good as it used to be.
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I have the same problem I have to stop at 20 yard sales to find one with good items but back in Ohio growing up I saw the people selling all kinds of great stuff cheap, I have found auctions have better items in AR than yardsales though often times items get bid up to high for me.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

That is neat, I found out about free cycle at HT a few weeks ago. I cant wait to get home and participate in it.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

I dont wear them all last winter before I left I only wore a few them (I wore them about everyday when it was cold I am in NW AR and it is like zone 5 and a half in the highlands where I am so it does get cold) of them but the rest are there for when the SHTF or for future use as I wear my favorites out I will end up using them all though I may be old when I do! When I left the army last time I took a duffle bag full of good boots I use to buy them from people leaving that did not want them and I have them for trading/gifts and enough to last myself my life. Same with the uniforms I hate the new ACU uniform for lot sof reasons but I loved the old ones especially when they were 100% cotton.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

"To each their own" but I hope my children grow up with the same values that Obser1 has, so they can live their lives doing something worth while and not being a wage slave and making banks and insurance companies rich.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

Ok.. I just realized how impossibly lucky I am in the "buy local" thing.. I have not one but TWO chocolate companies within biking distance of my farm. Two ladies ;-) and one of them specializes in Fair Trade Chocolate. Plus... my husband works for Green Mountain Coffee Roasters. The only down side of the confections on route 100 is that Ben and Jerry's is now owned by an international conglomerate. But they use locally produced milk and cream, employ local people, etc, so I think I should still be able to buy Dublin Mudslide now and then!

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Icelandic Sheep and German Angora Rabbits

This is an interesting, albiet Calvinistic, position to take.

I've recently closed down my third elderly relatives home. Excuse me.. my mother would prefer I say "mature!" In all three cases it wasn't a matter of just dealing with their lifetime of "stuff," but of course of dealing with the "stuff" they'd inherited from their parents and grandparents. I realize this is often not the case in modern America, but in this last home I was dealing with 100 year old wineglasses, lithographs, family bibles with birth and death recordings (2), antique painstakingly hand sewn linens, and furniture which ranged from the American colonial period through pre-war Germany.

A lot of carefully stored, occasionally used, stuff. Most of which had a memory attached to it, some of which was very painful to abandon as she downsized into another home.

Now, as sole heir, obviously I got "pick of the litter." But I have wineglasses.. purchased in bulk because I tend to break them. I have no use for a bible.. nor heirs to pass it on to when my time comes. I have no need of china, linens, or any of the 1000 items we sold when we threw open the door last week... so these things went. In some cases were given away because we thought somene might like them. In some cases sold dearly. In some cases sold cheaply.

All the buyers had one thing in common... they were buying material goods they did not need. With an exception made for the people who bought the kitchen pots and pans. Everything else we sold was a luxury good which nobody really "needs." Simply because you're buying second hand does not mean you're somehow absolved of aquisitiveness. In fact, my observation during what is now my fifth massive estate sale is that people buying in these sales exhibit more aquisitiveness than someone shopping at WalMart. You don't go into WalMart and start snatching things and clutching them to your chest. You don't go into WalMart and pile things in a corner promising to come back with a check.

Somewhere out there is someone displaying a set of 100 year old champaign flutes with exquisite etching and exclaiming that they only paid $2 each for them... such a bargain, to find something like this at an estate sale. Technically, this falls into the "used" and therefore "acceptable" category.. and frankly, we were glad to get rid of them for any price.

But now I ask you... just because this person found these flutes "used" does this mean they are not "aquisitive?" That they are not, as you've accused those who buy new of being, in persuit of "more" unable to find satisfaction and never having "enough?"

I agree with the poster who pointed out that there is a reverse snobbery in effect when those who buy something new are criticized for "bragging," while at the same time it is acceptable for someone who has acquired something used to brag about the price they paid for an item. Either it is acceptable to be pleased about an aquisition, or it is not. Whether or not the item is used does not in any way change the fact that you have now acquired something that an hour ago you didn't own.

My mother couldn't take those champaign flutes with her... and neither can the person who just acquired them. New or used makes no difference. What someone paid for them in the 1880's or someone paid for them in the year 2006, they're still toys... so why is it acceptable to brag about buying them used, but not acceptable to celebrate acquiring something new?

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Icelandic Sheep and German Angora Rabbits

While that last post slipped into the realm of philosophy I think it is a valid question... when you speak of limiting your purchases to the "not new" except in specific cases (brake pads, seeds, underwear) are you taking up the challenge because:

You're looking for creative ways to save money and a challenge like this focuses your mind?

You're trying to limit your impact on the environment and buying used is a form of recycling?

You have a belief that buying used is morally acceptable, while buying new isn't?

You believe that buying used keeps your resources from flowing into the pockets of companies you disapprove of?

I personally do not believe there is something morally superior about buying something used as opposed to new. Acquiring something is acquiring something. I do believe that buying used can allow you to acquire items which are of higher quality than you might otherwise be able to afford, or allows you to pay substantially less for an item that doesn't need to be new to function well. And I do think buying used is a useful form of recycling.

But buying used does not imbue someone with a halo of a superior being.

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Icelandic Sheep and German Angora Rabbits

What does anyone REALLY need? Shelter, food, and water aside. Man is a social animal, and 'other' things are part of the social order. Although 'social order' might mean different things to different people, places, times...

Really I guess you have not seen some of our pictures.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

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Icelandic Sheep and German Angora Rabbits

LOL. I read your posts Morrisonscorner they gave me much to think on.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

Doesn't matter to me how much money I had I personally enjoy a good bargian & if I was given a 1,000 I'd spend it at the thrift store! The original thread was on saving $$. Not on how much $$ you have to spend or how fast you can spend it. Keeping up with the Jones isn't my cup of tea. If the neighbors sticks their noses in the air at my thrift store items I just hope for a good downpour of rain!

I know that is what the original thread was but some people are taking us on thread drift, I have been guilty of it on occasion.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

hedgeapple- most of my research yesterday was focused on food production. I have only 1/4 acre to work with, and the house sits on that land too, so my space is very limited.

But I have had several concepts in the back of my mind for some time. Buy less and buy local. At this point, it would be very difficult for me to go 6 months without buying anything.

By that I mean being able to produce something to replace what I would ordinarily buy, NOT just living off of my pantry shelves. I could live off of what is already on my pantry shelves for months.

But I think sooner or later, either our economy or some other natural or man-made disaster will force me to raise my family on what I am able to produce or create (knit goods, food, etc.). So I am taking the 6 months concept and applying it as more of a involuntary idea than a voluntary one.

I live in a city, so I have access to things that rural folks might not. Just as rural folks have access to things I don't (like space! ).
So I began to take stock of my options-
Transportation-I can walk, I have a bicycle with a trailer, and I have a scooter in addition to my vehicle. What stores would be available?

Skills-I can knit, sew, quilt, make soap, candles. Between DH and I we can cover a wide range of useful skills.

BUT---we don't raise any animals for the raw wool. I don't have a woodstove for heating and for the ashes to create the lye. I cannot raise enough plants for their oil. So I had to list these as things I am dependent on others for. I have plenty of access to thrift stores and yard sales for reusable goods, but only if they would be available.

Food- I have fruit trees (with plans to plant more), nut trees, fruit bushes, herbs, veggie garden, and I have the skills and know-how to grow more.
I raise my own chickens but I do not have a rooster so I cannot guarantee that I can raise a new batch of chicks if I need them.
No goats or sheep here for milk, wool, meat.
I no longer raise rabbits (DH is highly allergic, caused too many problems and I didn't have to rely on the meat). If I HAD to come up with meat, I would raise rabbits again, but what about feed, cages, etc. I can raise quite a bit of feed and I can forage for them.
But can I grow enough? So a lot of my research yesterday was focused on the types of food I eat now and what of these can I grow?
What about grains? What can I grow? Can I disguise it?
A greenhouse is high on my list of priorities, as is a more secure chicken coop and run. A way to heat my home that isn't dependent on utilities.

Simply put it is impossible for me to be heavily self-sufficient in any matter except perhaps food production (with a radical change in diet) and small animal production.

I'll try to check in later with some of the links I was looking over, etc. Right now I have to take care of my critters ASAP because I am going on a field trip with my son's class to a conservation site today. We get to learn about how the pioneers lived in a hands on way. Hopefully it will be useful.

[QUOTE=BurbsteaderI'll try to check in later with some of the links I was looking over, etc. Right now I have to take care of my critters ASAP because I am going on a field trip with my son's class to a conservation site today. We get to learn about how the pioneers lived in a hands on way. Hopefully it will be useful.[/QUOTE]
Sounds neat let us know how it was.

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

just like yesterday, only got a few minutes here, but reading some of the posts on this thread reminds me of Thoreau. i am just doing this from memory cause in a hurry, but if i recall correctly thoreau kind of put down the farmer and thought he was a sad case, BUT thoreau did not have to buy the land at walden pond, his friend just loaned it to him so he did not have to work to pay for the land and the taxes. actually, i think he was jailed for refusing to pay the tax on his ax. also, thoreau did not have a family to support, just himself which is way, way , way easier to do anything when just you to be concerned about. also, thoreau just lived on this borrowed land a few years before his lived his "other lives" (was that how he put it?) whereas the farmers may have spent their whole lives living there. point being, while i might enjoy reading thoreau, i do not really like him because his writings that i have read seemed to me to pass judgment on those who did not engage in a life long lifestyle that resembled his mere three year experiment. in contrast harlan hubbard -at least it seems to me from my reading of his works and about him- spent decades living the lifestyle he wanted and off hand i can't recall from his writings where he condemned anyone for not choosing to live like he did. however, based on a book written by a women who visited harlan and anna in her childhood - can't recall name of book or author right now- in reading between the lines, i remember thinking that maybe harlan's wife anna wasn't quite so happy tho she may have tried to make a good show of it. (sorry, have to go, hope to finish this post tonight)

I thought Thoreau lived there only 18 months? Also your right he was kind of hypocritical to live there such a short time by the Grace of his friend and write like he did and then go back to the city. I still Love reading him and Emerson though

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marching to the beat of a different drummer

Actually CT, I think you've rather missed the point... nobody is being critical of your yard sale finds, nor was this a thread of getting rid of cash. But it seems very disrespectful, hypocritical, and quite snobbish of you to refer to people who buy something new, for whatever reason they choose to do so, as snobbish and "keeping up with the Jones" (whoever they are). If you expect people to treat you respectfully and celebrate your joys you need to treat people respectfully in return.

If your joy comes from scouting out a "good bargain," that's great. I think the idea of buying nothing "new" for 6 or 12 months is an interesting challenge... but "new" has two meanings, doesn't it? There is "new" as "never been used purchased retail" and "new to you."

It would be relatively easy, given the fact that I'm in my mid-40's with no children for me to go 6 months without buying anything "new to me" beyond food and feed. But then, I've acquired my "stuff." Some new, some used, some inherited, some found. I don't need any more "stuff." In fact, I'm a net shedder of "stuff." I presume this makes me bad and evil... although I do have a Caphalon cast iron frying pan to dispose of.. any takers? Or, since it was acquired new, is it so tainted none of you would consider touching it?

Would it make you feel better to know my mother acquired it and I inherited it, but don't need it? Does that make my mother immoral for buying quite an expensive piece of cooking gear new even though she used it for years? Are you, if you acquire this pan, a better person that she is because you got her frying pan when she was downsizing?

I think some of you really need to reflect on your attitude towards consumption and consumerism. Are you teaching your children that my mother and those like her are morally bankrupt because they bought something new and enjoyed using it? But that you, who acquired it when she no longer needed it are better, more upstanding and moral, creatures? The item is a frying pan... and whether it is hers or yours it is "new" to both of you at the time of aquisition.

My mother, I, pretty much anyone who is downsizing, is delighted to see our things go to people who will use and enjoy them. I have so much Caphalon at this point there simply isn't room for one more pan, nice though it may be. So. If I put it in a thrift store I'm one of "them." The people who pay too much to keep up with the Jones. If I offer it here I'm also one of them.. the immoral people who buy new stuff.

Maybe I should just bury it in the back yard. Will that make me a better person?

I'm not going to rehash the whole discussion, you can go back and read it for yourself, but buying a new energy efficient washing machine is a good thing, it should be celebrated. Getting a washing machine used is also a good thing, and should be celebrated. Pounding your clothes clean on a rock by the riverside is an interesting way to get your clothes clean, and if it makes you happy, great.

But it doesn't imbue you with extra virtue.

What started out as a thread on limiting consumption has turned into a competition to see who can acquire the most stuff at the lowest possible outlay of cash. I'm not seeing "decreased consumption" here. I'm actually seeing an increase in consumption, a shopping for "bargains" for the sake of acquiring "bargains" so one can brag about them.

Stuff is stuff, whether you acquire it new or used. Snobbery is obviously a two way street. And I've got a hexed Caphalon cast iron frying pan to dispose of which, since it was purchased new, is probably imbued with the very essence of the devil himself.

I'm thinking burying it would be the safest way to dispose of it.

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Icelandic Sheep and German Angora Rabbits