Un-lawful possession of laying hens

quote by dixie doodle ( i dont know how to do it right)

What? I as a Canadian have no freedom? Gee, I always felt pretty free! You got some examples of that, please? Just remember you have to balance your freedom with the maintenance of a healthy society.......you can't always get what you want, when you want it like a spoiled, selfish child.

And if you think all Canadians hate the US, then you are sadly misinformed, my friend. That is a very broad statement with little truth behind it. However, there is a difference between wanting to remain friendly with the USA and wanting to automatically follow their example in everything to stay so. We are our own people, with our own ways that we enjoy, freedom included (if you would care to do some research into our history). Americans are wonderful in their own right, but it doesn't necessarily follow that everyone else wants to be an American. Sorry if you (mistakenly) input that as being 'hateful' of other cultures. (END QUOTE)

thank you....i couldnt have said it better myself....

Important to note the official reason he was raided, (the one the media was intended to run with) is he was selling ungraded eggs, to restaurants and bakeries. Maybe he was maybe he wasn't, the real reason is he was selling without quota. While I disagree with supply managment and quota's I also disagree with taking advantage of a system that has established secure pricing without making the same investment in the marketing as the other farmers. I think he should have the right to produce as many eggs as he'd like but we do have laws governing that and he broke those laws. Its a bit like buying a franchise. You pay 100K to open a fast food restaurant and the next guy along just opens the same name of restauant across from you without paying that fee, you're going to be ticked off and call the authorities. Our marketing boards are selling franchises (quota) and you need that to sell eggs. Its wrong IMO, but it's wrong to fight the battle the way he did too. Was there really a food safety problem or was that thrown out to cloud the issue?

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Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup........

It had nothing to do with NAIS or animal ID in anyway. It was for selling a product that was evidently uninspected or ungraded. If someone would sell you a product in this same fashion you would complain too.

Bobg

You are right. My mistake. Sorry.

Oxankle

I don't have any research handy but I do recall hearing of the government coming to farms and telling farmers how may pigs they could have. The way I heard it neighbors who didn't have the quota would accept some from those who had too many just to keep from going over the limit.

With the mindset of country folks then (and today) an ounce of prevention was worth a couple of tons of cure. Just keep telling yourself it will never happen in Amerika.

I feel it important to add my $.02 on this subject. I feel that it is (or should very well be) illegal for the government to interfere in this mans business. He has made his investment in his inventory, and is generating his product and managing his marketing. He works at this every day, and may or may not be doing well. Obviously, he has customers for his product, mislabeled or not.

Some of you have said that “He could have moved his tractor to prevent the chickens’ deaths”. True, however, as the chickens belong to the farmer and not the government, this was his choice. Had he chosen to kill every chicken on his farm during this standoff, that would have been his right. The chickens are HIS property. The farm is HIS property. Should the government have the right to decide what he does with his private property? If I sell a car, and the sign says that it has four tires, when it really only has three, am I responsible after someone agrees to purchase it?

The only rights that were violated here were his (the farmer’s) property rights. The market will determine his fate if he is selling a poor product. It is undeniable that a man should be free to do with his property as he wishes. And if a mutually satisfactory sales agreement is made between two parties, no one else should be able to affect that.

In my ever humble opinion, no government has a right to tell me how to do business. They may not make decisions about my product, operation, or livelihood. The fact that this man chooses not to participate in the Quota system is/should be legal.

This rambles. All Apologies.

Joshua

Great to know we have 2 canadians who love America. When I said, leftist/socialist, I was referring to your well-documented LACK OF FREEDOM (you asked for an example) concerning oh...let's see...Health Care for one. We've received some great Canadian Doctors in the last few years who couldn't make a living in Canada, so they moved to the LAND OF THE FREE. And NO, I won't debate you on the glorious merits of Canadian healthcare. You just asked for an example of your lack of freedom, so I was giving ya one.


Hmmm. oh yeah, then there's that little LACK OF FREEDOM concerning Religion and Free Speech (oops, that's 2)...seems I read about a pastor up there in the northlands being PROSECUTED for preaching his Biblical viewpoint of Homosexuality. I believe your FREE SOCIETY calls that a ""Hate Crime" and NO, I won't debate you on the homosexual, social issue. I'm only pointing out that you guys are probably building a Gulag for political/social/religious dissenters.

As far as Canadians that "hate America", sorry for that one. I guess I was thinking about how I loathe your political leaders, who love to bash America's policies, while enjoying our watch-care over them. Kind of like the French. But you guys have proven me wrong.

Besides, my original post was cheering on the Canadian Farmer. I was taking his part! Why are ya Flaming me?!?!?!?

__________________
"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)

If it can be done and people are willing to eat there than why would you be angry if he was able to do it for less. I may have misunderstood, but that is like saying I bought my hose for 100,000 and he got the same thing two doors down for 70,00. I 'm mad, hes going to pay!
Why not celabrate with him.
WE dont know the prices he was selling for. They could have been fair, less than others because they were not graded. So gradeing is size? Why do I care what size if I like what I see , I'm paying less, if I need more, I buy more.

NO, we look for farms that are doing it their way. What ever the size. You check out their place, like what you see. Who cares if the gov has their little stamp on it? It is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$.
It does involv us with a concern for NAIS. This could be our future. NO CHOICE.

OK I'm not describing this well. By law you must buy into the quota system run by the egg marketing board to sell eggs. Its a license to produce "X" amount of eggs depending how much quota you buy. In return you get the right to sell at the board established price (which you theoretically help set at meetings) and it will be higher than a free market egg would cost. In theory at least. Now if some guy doesn't buy that quota but he sells eggs at or just below that artificially high price he gains the benefit of the quota without buying it. The whole system is terrible (again JMO) but he knew it was there and knew the risks. For all the eggs this guy was selling if they were causing people to get sick we'd have heard that first in the news and they would have traced it to the farm. It started with the marketing board calling CFIA and complaining there was a "potential" for a health problem, they're motive was to finnally stop this guy selling eggs, off quota. I understand thier point of veiw, egg farmers spend hundreds of thousands of dollars buying quota and following the law. This guy didn't. Yeah its a system that has outlived its usefulness, if it ever had any, but there's hundreds of millions of dollars of outstanding quota, that would have to be bought or expensed off taxes to end the system. The govt. isn't in a hurry to change either because they'll have to pick up the tab.

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Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup........

Ok, I get it now.
Cant help but draw the line........ it IS something we dont want catching on here in the good ole USofA. Well, it has, hasn't it. I just get so angry at the thought that it could reach the little guy just trying to live a simple life. Homesteading was supose to be the Ideal. Not the fight to end all fights. You would think the GOV would like to see more families careing for their own. So the Gov can consentrate on the stuff that realy matters. Like protection of the borders, war, national deffisit, were Elvis realy is.

It would seem to me that this would be considered Civil Disobedience. He seems to have been breaking the law/agreement, regarding quotas, grading, etc., though not necessarily with any intent to harm or defraud.

It's quite possible (if not probable) that his customers knew full well what circumstances he was operating under, and they had no problem with it. That's fine. But, if he was reselling to food producers, restaurants, etc, and they sold their product without notifying consumers, then someone isn't getting to make a decision about what they're consuming, and most of us complain when the big companies do that to consumers.

I'm very glad to see that fellow landowners & farmers came to support him; it's what makes me think that he probably was being set up in some way. If no one supported him, it would seem more like he was just skirting the regulations. When people think someone else is getting away with something they're not allowed to, they don't usually risk imprisonment or assault to support him.

Is this about NAIS? No, not exactly. But it is about what limits there are, and should be, on livestock producers. And that touches on the same things, as far as I understand it. In this case, it seems like a system that was put in place to help big producers, and has acquired "public health & safety" overtones.

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let me find peace of mind on my own piece of land...
and find someway to feel like a man on a tractor with a dog in a field

Welllllllllllll you'd really have to follow the Lanark Landowners Association. A fine group lead by an excellent man but they're definately making a political statement when they support people, although they are fighting injustice too. Last year they announced they were going to open a special one day market and sell ungraded eggs and uninspected beef on the roadside, to challenge the health dept to shut it down. Now maybe the eggs were ungraded I don't know but I heard from a reliable source the meat went through an inspected plant and was graded. There really is far too much govt. meddling in Ontario on far too many levels, the LLA is doing what they can to stop it.

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Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup........

Im glad you said that. That was exactly how I wanted to respond to DixieDoodle. I couldnt pick the words I wanted but you hit the nail right on head. We dont need government protection. Government protection ends up being tyrrany

I sell ungraded eggs, I buy my own blank egg cartons instead of recycling the ones from store eggs because I won't sell eggs in a carton that say, "USDA inspected grade A eggs." At this time in the USA, it is perfectly legal for me to do so as long as I am not selling them as graded or inspected eggs. I remind some of my buyers who run B&Bs they cannot legally serve my eggs to their customers.

The government has no business on my farm, nor will I ever accept them making it their business. I do not accept Farm Exemption tax credit and I pay tax on the income. A predator in the henhouse is a predator in the henhouse and will be treated accordingly.

That farmer needs to send a bill to the government for each hen that died and the cost of lost production, plus a parking fee for the trucks being on the property. All you Canadians can like how your county is run, that's fine, but most of us Americans do not wish to live by those rules and will do everything we can to defend our Constitution and our God-given rights.

a few points to consider here.

1. That article was written with absolute crap journalistic integrity. It is plainly visible that the author was biased in the article.

2. Were not talking about farmer john taking 10 dozen eggs to the local farmers market, were talking about a 10,000 chicken operation here. This is so far beyond what anyone on this board would consider sustinance farming, its rediculous.

3. This farmer has 9,000 unregistered birds, and hes selling a regulated product. The government had every right to come in and inspect the properties. While they were high handed in the affair, obviously people knew this was coming down the pipe.

4. This guy has a history of conflict with the local regulators, but he is painted as being some sort of victim? hardly. The man was operating an illegal buisness. 10 years of conflict, and sympathy is expected for this clown? sorry, I don't buy it.

5. As to the big bad government controlling your ( their) lives by forcing them to register birds, I don't understand how anyone around here would want otherwise. Do you have any clue of the environmental impact 9,000 chicken would have? There was a time when government wasn't involved with such matters, and there were no environmental regulations, but history has shown us that people will take as little responsibility as possible when they aren't regulated? ( can anyone say superfund projects?)

Margins for egg producers are razor thin. Assuming he is making a penny an egg, he is making $504 a week. No one in thier right mind could consider this a big bucks enterprise.

JoshuaP and Laura,

You guys rock!

I sincerely widh more people thought like you two do.

Kudos to you both!

It WAS FDR who did the things mentioned, and not during wartime but way before during the Depression. I can still remember my aunt getting mad when she retold for the umteenth time to anybody who would listen about how the gov inspectors would post a station on the mo river bridge at st Joe Mo, and pour farmers milk over the side. They also did the same with pigs and hogs. I dont know what become of cows. This was his idee to help the farmer by making every gal of milk doz of eggs, pig, ect worth more, by limiting those that was for sale. ITs been said that 3 out of 4 farms was sold and forclosed by the banks by 1934. the above is part of the reason. By the way, you think this dang country is so blessed in its laws?? try to grow 20 acres of tobacco without a tobacco base and see what happens, or try to plant a few more acres than your base allows if you have one and see what happens. You cant do anything here that you want anymore than anywhere else, it just sounds so good to be smug when we hear that its happening somwhere else, and we can say, Gee, Im so glad to be an american.

I still thank God I'm an American. If you ever travel overseas for any amount of time, you'll see that this is the greatest place to live. Course, I ain't been everywhere, but I've been to Europe. France, Germany and the former Eastern block. They all SUCK compared to the standard of living and freedoms we enjoy here.

Nope, when it's all said and done, I guess I'll retain my "smugness". Sorry if it chaps anyone's backside...

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"The most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." - Sir Isaac Newton
(A REAL scientist)