Felling kinda guilty`

I repeat my earlier question, which was not meant to be retorical. Does that go for livestock too? Can I shoot my neighbors livestock if it comes calling onto my lawn or hayfield? Can I shoot the neighbor's cow if it meanders into my corn field but isn't really eating anything yet, just checkin' it out?

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Very good point TQB..but perhaps it would depend upon how attached you are to your lawn/hay/corn..wouldn't you say? If you don't feed your lawn/hay/corn for a week...will it die? Seems to me a chicken in a pen would die.

There is a huge difference here..and if you cannot see it..then I'm talking to a big rock. Are you a rock?

But again..your point is very interesting..a concept that very few people would ever consider. I'll tell you what..next time my goats are eating your lawn..you have my permission to shoot them. Only condition is..you gotta come and tell me what you did. Then...next time I saw you mowing your lawn..I'd get to shoot you AND your lawn mower.

I am amused. Down here the rule is If it's a Cat and has no collar. SSS
If it has a Collar two warnings. Then SSS
If it's a dog and even looks wrong at any of the youngins on this road. SSS

Just for the record a cat can be trained to stay away from chickens. My neighbor has some odd 45 hens and a couple roosters. She has 3 cats. I have yet to see or hear of them near the chickens. They do claim the barn and the living room couch.


Kenneth

The grass or pasture will grow back. A dead chicken won't grow back. If the marauding animal eats alot of corn, I would bill for damages. If it was mowing down an orchard of newly planted heirloom fruit trees, I might very well consider shooting it on the spot. Keep your animals under your control or be prepared to suffer the consequences, that's what we do.

Hmmm...so, grass will grow back, therefore if your cow or horse is eating my grass no big loss?

The cat hadn't killed ANYTHING. It was just there. There was no big loss, as a matter of fact, no loss at all.

That horse or cow MIGHT just eat my garden, so I can shoot it?

Look, I believe in protecting my property and in keeping my animals confined, contained, but accidents happen sometimes. Animals get out. If an animal kills something or is actively chasing something then I think you have every right to kill it. I draw the line at killing it when it's just there, when it hasn't bothered anything yet. Shoo the thing home and talk to its owners or call the animal control people, but ya don't kill it. It doesn't understand the boundries, so if it hasn't caused any harm, don't kill it, just like with the cow in my field scenario.

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If the horse or cow is there for a few hours, it is no big loss to eat some grass. Someone posted a thread a while back about their neighbor's heifer getting into their pasture and the neighbor wouldn't come get it. If it is there for the long term, there needs to be some pasture rent or damages paid.

As for saying there was no loss at all, I'm sure you had the option of reading the original and the follow up posts. Original:
We did loose Slippers lastweek (cochin rooster) so I am pretty protective nowdays!

Later post:
What made me WONDER is that this cat after picking it up seemed pretty heavy and well fed. It could have been full of my Cochin Bantam rooster Slippers, or the other bantam hen we lost Raindrop. Both chickens named by my 6 year old DD.

They were suffering losses, and a cat was found snooping around. Time will tell if the losses stop, meaning the offending party was eliminated, or if they continue, meaning a worthless, wandering cat was eliminated.

They couldn't shoo it home because, as indicated, they had undertaken a study of all the neighbors' domestic pets and this one did not fit the description of any known cat.

Good shooting.

There are A WHOLE LOT more feral cats than there are tame ones. Feral cats kill what's available and possible. They are versatile and opportunistic. Native birds and small native animals for sure, even fish in shallows. They have no problem killing adult rabbits, and a rabbit would be better able to stand up for itself and/or escape than would poultry. Thing is, you just don't know what a feral is going to do. It MAY have been stalking rodents, but it wouldn't hesitate to snap up chicks or half-grown poultry, bantams, or maybe even adult poultry.

Even a cat that's used to people may be feral - driven away from home by population pressure - other cats after it grew up. Or if it's straying a long way from home then it's living, and destroying wildlife, as if it were completely feral. Such a one might be a good candidate for adoption if you want a cat, but while it's living wild it's destroying wildlife.

Odds are that you did a good thing by killing it. I can't guarantee you that the cat that was sneaking around your poultry was NOT a total angel, innocent of all wrongdoing. However, as it was a cat, I suspect that not to be the case. Anyway, take it as a lesson - you'll be happier with a little more concrete indication of guilt in future. You would probably have got that with 30 seconds or a minute's more observation. I generally kill ferals around here, but I let the last one off - it seemed a little more used to people - a little more like a wandering pet - than they generally do.

P.S. I LIKE pet cats, in their place. I have one. While I appreciate working dogs, I prefer a cat as a pet. But I despise feral killers - cats or dogs.

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ô¿ô Don Armstrong,Terra Australis

Grandad, tell us a story about the olden days, when you were young and men could walk on the moon.

Well, all I can say is that I second the poster who said they're glad you're not their neighbor!

Killing a domesticated animal because of something it might have done or something it might do someday. Shame, shame.

We kill raccoons only if they have bothered something, otherwise, we leave 'em be. Besides, our Pyrs take care of anything that wanders onto our place. They don't kill 'em, but they sure do scare them away.
It seems a little more humaine than lead.

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Kind of an absurd comparison. Your lawn versus someone's chickens? As someone pointed out, one grows back, the other ends up dead. I would also consider the fact that the cow was not likely left out to wander thru the neighborhood. Once you have seen the same cat day after day stalking your animals, it is clear the neighbor is an irresponsible git who tosses the animal outside without considering the consequences.

Domestication does not equate to not being a danger to other animals. Ask anyone who has had a pack of friendly domestcated neighborhood dogs run their sheep to death.

Why can't people just take responsible care of their cats and not let them wander thru other people's property?

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Ultra Lord is not afraid of chickens!

Cats are "normally" looking for small game (mice, birds, etc). However, if you have chicks in the coop, they are game for a cat. I would have shot the cat if I had not seen it before. Had I known the cat, give the owner 10 minutes to come get it or tell him/her it will be shot.

Don't be saddened by carrying out the removal of a cat from the gene pool. You did yourself a service and probably saved another 20 cats from being born and becoming a nuisance. Think of it as saving ammunition.

BTW, I hope you disposed of it responsibly. Like underneath a fruit tree.

I never dreamed this would go this far. I shot a (stray, domestic) cat and now we have goats, horses and cattle involved/ not to mention some say I am a bad neighbor.

I would never ever shoot a horse,cow,goat,dog rabbit or CAT or any animal I did not feel as a threat!
My girls all free range our place all day. We have hawks that I could shoot almost anytime I wish as well. One day a hawk took 'Fried' ( a bantam Polish crested) off screaming while I was working in the yard.

I feed all of our domestic and wildlife, make suete for the wild birds put out corn for the deer also buy salt licks and sunflower seeds for the squirrels as well and keep a heated water bowl out for them.

Today we had a nice looking bird dog (collar on it and he belongs to MR.MACK) running thru our front pasture. The girls where out and I kept an eye on him, he is a good boy and he went home after 10 mins or so. What I am saying is that I would not shoot a randon trespasser ( dog, cat, COW or HORSE Ect.)

This cat had no collar and ran when I came out and it easesd back into the chicken area after I returned with the rifle.

I have Never had a loss in my coop ( it is over built ) but I have had a few losses with the girls free ranging. Could have been the hawk, could have been the cat or the bird dog. But the cat was too close to my girls and my house and that is tresspassing!

Right or wrong, If you are glad you are not my neighbor So am I!

I have not got any calls about Fluffy and no dirty looks as well.
I will set the hava heart trap if I see any (local) cats around in the future though~

Thanks for the support, also God bless all that are against what I felt was right.
We all are Americans and get to choose what we do on our own land!
Columbia,SC.

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I agree 100 percent with Don. Perhaps I Should leave it at that as I'd prefer to be "liked" since I haven't posted much since joining and lurking But...everyone else is feeling free to throw in their 2 cents so I will too <G>.

I'm a cat lover and general pet lover However I grew up on a farm and now after 20+ years am starting one of my own.

Here's my take...Confine your animals. I lost several cats, as a child, to neighboring farmers because my cats spent their nights digging up gardens and causing needless destruction. I was heartbroken to lose them But due to family arrangement the cats had to be out. NOW I have 5 spoiled Inside only cats and if I expect them to live, they will be kept indoors only.

Animal lovers have a responsibility to keep their animals on their own property by whatever means necessary. Of Course I wouldn't shoot a cow, horse or goat who wandered onto my property...they're not going to kill my livestock. I'll capture and try to find out who they belong to. That's how it was done when growing up. Now, if the neighbors are dumb enough to let their dog/s or cats run about (we don't have close neighbors)...My animals come first.

If one of my Anatolians leave my property I will understand (sure, Not going to be Happy) if they're shot. It's My job, as their owner, to make sure this doesn't happen.

Ive shot stray cats at times just because there were too many cats that werent mine under my house in my roof and fighting with my cats.

now i know who owns what cat in the immediate area... the big tiger cat lives next door, there is a big tabby that lives behind me...

now there is a giant black cat around here with no collar, he seems harmeless enough. if he starts fighting with my nice calm freindly cats, I dont know who he belongs to but since he is HERE all the time i am going to guess, someone isnt missng him... and wont. if he behaves.... he's ok.
I had to kill a big black and white cat a while ago, he would show up and just beat the heck out of the year old cats.
I have no idea who he beloned to nor do I care, he had no collar and was here enough to not be a house cat.

now my cats all run loose outside. they all stay within the yard and fencerows, and rarely wander off.
when they do, they might, and have, been killed. some have been adopted.
thats kinda part of being a free cat, you go outside of your area.... you might buy the farm.
the tiger cat next door VERY rarely leaves his yard, he does come around here hunting but when he sees me he runs back to his yard... where oddly he will let me pet and hold him.
but not when he is out of the yard, he acts like a scared cat.

My reasoning on strays is... if its here every day, no collar and its freindly.... it can stay. add agressive and "unclaimed" and he dies. I dont want agressive genes bred into my barncats.

In general, unless the cat is doing something undesireable.... I let it go.

unless we have a population boom, then you have to get rid of them.

a pet cat does not generally stray far from home.

As I said before, I do own Nine Cats. No they aren't inside Cats, they are outside Cats. They would be indoor Cats if I had my own way but my parents aren't too willing to the idea of indoor kitties. Plus my younger brother has a horrible allergy to Cats. Two out of those Nine Cats are allowed to stay in the basement because not only did they go through some rough spots but I also spent a lot of money on them during their road to recovery. I spent well over $500.00 total on both Cats within a years time.

Only the two indoor/outdoor Cats are Neutered currently. The other seven will all be fixed within this year. The Females will probably be fixed by the end of January. The Males later this spring.

Both indoor/outdoor Cats are Vaccinated for Distemper/Rabies. The other seven Cats will also be Vaccinated when they go in to be fixed.

The outdoor Cats have access to the garage where they have Cat beds, a cat feeder filled with cat food 24/7, a cat waterer filled with clean fresh water, and several different Cat toys, including Kitty condo houses.

All of my Cats are loved and spoiled. They get ear mite medicine, worm medicine, flea and tick medicine, and are just Generally healthy in all ways.

Now don't tell me that I am not Responsible because my Cats aren't 'currently' fixed or vaccinated. I 'am' responsible because I 'am' getting them fixed and vaccinated.

All of my Cats were Collers and ID tags.

My Cats are my best friends and I theirs. I love them all so much. One female I have had for almost Six years now. Some are so friendly and loving that they will jump up onto my shoulders and sit there like a trained Parrot. They have just become a part of my life.

I have Chickens as well. A small flock of seven. My Cats will not harm them in anyways. I allow my birds to free range and you can find one to two Cats sitting in the middle of the flock not paying any mind to them. And just so you know I have three smaller Hens that my Cats could easily kill or harm. My Cats grew up around Chickens and they see them as my pets and not something to be killed and eaten. Even the Cats that I had before getting Chickens act like the ones that grew up around them.

NOW if someone were to shoot one of them because they happened to be on their land I would not only be heart broken for my fallen friend but I would also be Furious at the shooter. Animals don't understand property lines, but as long as they aren't doing any harm don't kill someones pet. If someone were to bring my Cat to my door step and tell me about the Cats unwanted visits to their house, I would make sure that the Cat did not bother them again. Either by keeping it indoors or maybe even perhaps a outdoor pen.

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Rachel

http://theworldofgoats.proboards77.com
The Message Board for Goats.

Sorry Rachel but your cats would not be tolerated by me. honestly if you can't provide for them immediately when you acquire them then you shouldn't have them. also if you can't properly & responsibly control them you shouldn't have them. it's a hard lesson i learned a long time ago regarding dogs. you can't take short cuts. everything must be done now. it's not fair to the animals, other animals or your neighbors. you are 100 % correct animals don't understand property lines so if you cats get killed for trespassing or worse it is your fault for not ensuring they couldn't leave your property. basically you are selfishly putting your affection before your neighbor's rights to not be harassed by the little vermin on their own property. cat owners generally get a free pass on this from society at large, but dog owners catch hell (and rightly so) because dogs are more dangerous to people & large stock. it is this attitude from most cat "owners" that i despise.

DH is currently in the process of building our first chicken coop for our first chickens this spring. I will show him this thread to make sure he builds it so secure that NOTHING will get to the chickens. I certainly would not want to get into a predicament where I would worry about other critters getting in.......

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Rachel and (and presumably queensblessing since you're excusing this level of irresponsibility), you are EXACLTY the kind of irresponsible, self-centered cat owners that cause these type of problems. You leave your UVACCINATE and UN-NEUTERED cats outside to free-roam, to go onto your neighbors property at will, and YOU WOULD be all ----y if your neighbor killed them?!?! YOU are the irresponsible one. YOU are the only one to blame if your cats get killed. What if went out in the road and got hit? I'm guessing you'd be furious with the driver, because, hey, cats don't understand that roads are dangerous. It's not the poor kitty's fault. Sorry, that's BS.

How about this scenario? Your cat, after killing a few hundred wild birds, runs into the road. A nice family in their car swerve to miss it, lose control, hit a tree. Oh wait, that's not your fault either, right?

Sorry, total crap. Keep your cats on your own property or don't have them as pets. End of story.

And sorry Rachel, but PLANNING to vaccinate and spay and neuter DOES NOT make you responsible. It makes you careless. Get those cats taken care of NOW, or give them to someone who can. You're not doing them any favors by letting unprotected cats out all the time to either get pregnant and bring more unhealthy cats into the world, or to catch one of the numerous feline diseases out there and die a painful death. I'm sure you love your animals, but you're being stupid and irresponsible. Fix it or get rid of them.

Why do people let their cats roam free anyway? The average life span of an outdoor cat is approximately 3 years..while the average life span of a full-time house cat is over 12 years.

Why have a cat if it is just a part-time pet anyway? I suppose if it is a true farm with barns and livestock and grains and such..but a lot of folk don't have those things but still have outside cats.

Plus..what about the nice neighbors who try to attract the birds with their birdfeeders..only to be 'treated' to the scene of someone's cat killing one of the birds at their feeder.

Or even worse..how many of you with outside cats also have birdfeeders of your own? Because to me..this is like baiting the birds so the cats can kill them..much the same way that some so-called hunters bait the deer so they can kill them.

If I see a dog passing thru here, I let it go. If I see it again....it comes down with a case of lead poisoning. My dear husband had hard time develpoing this attitude and would drag out that stupid beebee gun instead of the 22. Then we came home one day and found one of our mama rabbits with her feet chewed off and her belly torn open. She laid in that cage in shock till we got home and put her out of her misery. Some stray had tormented all the rabbits for what looked like hours, judging by the path it had worn into the ground in front of the fenced in area the cages were in. Then he finally dug under the fence did the damage to the rabbit. I had had this rabbit for yrs. The hair on the fence told me which dog it was. No dog comes here and leaves after that....as far as my husband is concerned. I know a lot of folks think this is cruel...but you have to deiced which animal you are going to be compassion to...the ones you have penned up and put into a position of becoming a victim or the ones who are galavanting around the country tormenting and killling anything they can get their teeth on.

The cat thing is a big hair ball. They do kill 100's of birds. If it was starlings they were killing I'd stand and applaud, but they hit the song birds hard. Cats kill for FUN.....no matter how cute and fluffy they are. So it doesn't matter if you are feeding them at home or not.


Sharon

Man I shouldn't even have picked up this thread again you people are all nuts. I'm glad you don't live anywhere near me. This is almost as bad as the "kill all the dogs threads" that get started. If a cat or even a dog for that matter killed one of my chickens, I would take it in stride. A chick is about a buck and a half a full grown chicken is about five bucks, my chickens have paid for themselves in eggs long ago. If I lost the whole flock I don't think I'd be out more than fifty bucks, that still wouldn't cover the cost of a persons pet. You never know when you are going to need your neighbor. Just plain nuts,shelled,toasted and lightly salted.