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12/19/05, 07:13 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 19,350
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Our cows were always provided shade and shelter from the wind and rain. Did we make them use the shelter? No, but it was available. I saw a pitiful sight as we were crossing Kansas a few years back, about 20 to 25 cows standing as tight as could be in the shade of a billboard because there was no other shade available. Yes, I consider not having shelter to be neglect. A farmer here has been brought up on cruelty charges for not having his cows penned in a barn during a very wet spring month. The cows ended up sinking in a muddy field and then starving to death. The courts ruling was that shelter was not readily available and therefore the cows were neglected. In the wild animals will travel long distances to find shelter. Even a tree or rocky overhang qualify as shelter. Livestock will be healthier if given some sort of protection from wind, sun, cold, and rain.
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12/19/05, 08:31 PM
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Master Of My Domain
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,220
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i think most big animals here are required to have at least a good stand of timber for shelter. most everything else requires a three sided structure with roof. dogs need a house that is raised off of the ground like on a skid.
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12/19/05, 09:13 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 31
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"We call them dumb animals, and so they are, for they cannot tell us how they feel, but they do not suffer less because they have no words."
Anna Sewell, Black Beauty
"The question is not can they reason nor can they talk, but can they suffer?"
Jeremy Bentham
"Man is the cruelest animal"
F. Nietzche
Obviously animals are not children, but they are living beings and deserve respect. When we domesticated them, we took on the responsibility to provide for their basic needs: food and shelter. I've often found the way to judge someone's character is not how they treat equals, but how they treat inferiors, whether that be a dog or a janitor. When you examine that behavior, you see the true person, and unfortunately too often, I'd rather stick to animals!
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12/19/05, 10:23 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 488
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Brandy. Do you feel a janitor is inferior to you?
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12/20/05, 12:58 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Richmond, BC, Canada
Posts: 815
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
Brandy. Do you feel a janitor is inferior to you?
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She probably is just speaking from the standpoint of someone hiring a janitor- and yes, employees are inferior to employers, and employers can make employees very miserable if they want.
I think that you should contact the humane society. If they do nothing about it, just take the dog.
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12/20/05, 04:29 AM
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stranger than fiction
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,049
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brandy
I've often found the way to judge someone's character is not how they treat equals, but how they treat inferiors, whether that be a dog or a janitor. When you examine that behavior, you see the true person
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Yep, exactly!  Anyone that I know that is abusive/border abusive or allows abuse to go on with animals definitely drops to the bottom of my list of likable people. There is just something mentally not right about people like that, IMO.
DD
PS> I figured you'd get a flame from that janitor comment,  but I think most of us here took it in the right context. You're right, people who work in so-called 'menial' jobs ARE also looked down upon by many in high society. How these high-classers (or high class wannabes) think they could manage without the little people is beyond me.....but just for the record, in some big factories here, janitors make almost $20 an hour.
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12/20/05, 05:49 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: tennessee
Posts: 139
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the police dept here in sevierville tn had a K9 training with outher police dept. while training one of the handers got mad at his dog and kicked it in the chest killing the dog .And to think with his temper his job is to carry a gun
__________________
why did I leave the plow in the field and look for a job in the town
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12/20/05, 06:16 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Anderson, Alabama
Posts: 420
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Danaus29
Yes, I consider not having shelter to be neglect.
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Maybe you are, it depends on the circumstances.
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Bachlorb - goats and horses should at least have a leanto to get out of bad weather.
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Based on where you live...not at all in my opinion.
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This was my point about the poodle. Four different people with four different ideas of animal neglect. In some cases its hard to determine what is abuse and what is not.
__________________
Brad Bachelor
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"Loving an old bachelor is always a no-win situation, and you come to terms with that early on, or you go away.”
-- Jean Harris
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12/20/05, 07:10 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 19,350
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True, a lot of it depends on the situation. I know some people have mentioned, as I have, that trees can be a livestock shelter. Well, if lightning hits the tree and kills the animals beneath it (happened to someone my grandpa was neighbor to years ago) is it neglect or just an unfortunate accident? Are animals dropping dead from lack of food and/or water? That is a clear-cut case of neglect but was it intentional or did the family experience a major tragedy and truly forget the animals? Like the people evacuated from NO, not one of them will be procecuted for neglect due to the circumstances but the animals were neglected just the same. Too many variables for my poor little head to wrap around.
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12/20/05, 07:25 AM
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Master Of My Domain
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,220
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bottom line...dogs are a den animal and need at least a hole to crawl in.
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12/20/05, 07:58 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 31
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For the record, no I do not think janitors are inferior, but I work for a large corporation, and it just burns me up everytime I walk in the bathroom and the janitor is in there and everyone ignores her! Or they are rude. The same goes with how I see folks treat our cafeteria workers. It's disgusting.
I make it a point to smile and be nice to everyone. Who knows, my smile might be the only one they get that day....at least where I work!
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12/20/05, 11:44 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,706
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It is interesting to see that some of you would rather ignore cruelty or pass it off as situation that dumb animals can readily put up with. For those that share my compassion for all of gods creation, plant animal or people, thank you for lifting my spirits.
I called animal control. They checked the situation out. I spoke with the animal control officer that went out there and was told that
1. yes the old dog house was definaitely too small for the dog
2. state law is that outdoor dogs must have shelter with 3 sides and a roof
3. The people who own the dog got a barrel for him to sleep in ( better than the ground but without straw or blankets, barely)
4. the animal had not been vacinated for rabies. (rabies is running strong in our area, so this is just plain idiotic) the people have until today to get the dog a $10 vaccination or animal control will sieze him.
I intend to follow the situation and if the dog is seized hope to put him up at least temporarly until I can find him a home.
I had to leave my name with animal control as the complaintent in order to file the complaint, so now Im watching my back.
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12/20/05, 12:27 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 31
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Randy,
I'm thanking God for people like you!
Sincerely,
Brandy
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12/20/05, 05:13 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,278
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Today, the world is a better place.
Keep that up and you will probably solve world hunger.
Pete
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12/20/05, 05:29 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,325
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Sometimes God goes on vacation and leaves others in charge
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12/20/05, 05:33 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: So Cal Mtns
Posts: 11,301
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Randy Rooster
It is interesting to see that some of you would rather ignore cruelty or pass it off as situation that dumb animals can readily put up with. For those that share my compassion for all of gods creation, plant animal or people, thank you for lifting my spirits.
I called animal control. They checked the situation out. I spoke with the animal control officer that went out there and was told that
1. yes the old dog house was definaitely too small for the dog
2. state law is that outdoor dogs must have shelter with 3 sides and a roof
3. The people who own the dog got a barrel for him to sleep in ( better than the ground but without straw or blankets, barely)
4. the animal had not been vacinated for rabies. (rabies is running strong in our area, so this is just plain idiotic) the people have until today to get the dog a $10 vaccination or animal control will sieze him.
I intend to follow the situation and if the dog is seized hope to put him up at least temporarly until I can find him a home.
I had to leave my name with animal control as the complaintent in order to file the complaint, so now Im watching my back.
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Good job.Would be nice if they could put something for him to sleep on.What Maroons.
BooBoo
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12/20/05, 05:55 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: MS
Posts: 24,572
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Good for you Randy!
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12/20/05, 06:22 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MN
Posts: 444
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Thanks Randy
For making the "holidays" a little better (and potentially a LOT better) for a dog....and for not "minding your own business"--the world needs more people like you!!!!!!
__________________
And how am I to face the odds
Of man's bedevilment and God's?
I, a stranger and afraid
In a world I never made.
--A. E. Housman
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12/20/05, 09:57 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York State
Posts: 124
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Thanks Randy for doing what you did.  Too many people look the other way because they don't want to get involved.
Here in our county we have a very proactive humane society. In the winter they deliver for free to anyone who calls straw for a dogs house and if needed, provide a shelter/house as well.
As I write this I have my little old Simone lying at my feet sleeping soundly. About 6 years ago her owners home burned down. She was the only dog not allowed in the house and left to fend outside for herself. The luckier ones all perished in the fire. ( the owners were not home at the time.)
When I took her to the vets back than, they discovered that she was full of pellets all across her shoulders and neck. No wonder she was so afraid of guns and thunder! Someone had used her for target practice. At her advanced age, we opted to not surgically remove them. So she is 16 now, the best dog we have had.
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12/21/05, 04:20 AM
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stranger than fiction
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,049
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Randy, that was a major act of kindness....good job!  I'm sure the dog will rest a little easier. Maybe it will get really lucky and the shelter will take him away and find him a good home where he is taken better care of.
But you know, at least now the shelter knows about these people. In many cases, the staff will make a return visit later on to make sure the orders are being kept up with. Maybe the owners ARE just ignorant and not really uncaring; some people just need some guidance about animal care.
I'm not sure about your area, but here, if you leave your name they are not allowed to let anyone publicly view the records, so finding out who you are is not an issue. If you are concerned, you could always call them and ask.
Have a great Christmas, you definitely deserve it!
DD
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