Property prices

I read about folks looking for land all the time, unfortunately the folks want "everything" but the price for such land. Our land, 40 acres, was purchased in 1991 for 27,500. the land sits on top of a mountain surrounded by national forests. the roads close due to snow each winter for a few months, the view is outstanding, it is not great veggie growing country yada yada. We looked at land in Arizona (we from tucson) for years,up by springerville etc with forest. Never could find any we could afford. So now we live in montana, have had to change our dreams considerably to fit our finances and could not be happier (unless spring comes early LOL). People need to be realistic when looking for land. Do you really need a zillion acres on paved road frontage, with utilities to the building cite and a good well or spring already in, with flat land for farming and grazing etc etc.

__________________
www.MontanaSticksAndStones.com at Goshen Farm

"The last point is baby boomers will all be trying to liquidate their assets at the same time." No. All my property is income producing. People need a place to live, and I have property to rent. What I hope to do is pass it down to my children.

Rose- if you need any more kids I am available for adoption. Ok, I'm 44yo, but I'm a kid at heart!!!!

btw- we own several properties, all paid for,no mortgages.

Unless we hit a major depression (which might happen) land prices are only going to go up, because there are more of us chasing the same amount of acres. I'd pick a spot I liked and make the plunge to buy the property. If nothing else, it could be a good investment. Everytime I've put money in the stock market or bonds, I've been disappointed. Everytime I've bought property, it has either increased in price or, maybe more importantly, it gives you peace of mind that you've got a place to go if you need to if things to get tough. Good luck to you.

ET,where I live,they put in a water treatment plant,up went my taxes.
My house next door is empty.I pay 50 dollars a month for sewage,of which there is none.I pay 25/month for 'standby' water,of which I use zero.I pay 20/month for garbage collection,which there is none.

I also pay for every bond issue on this property,though it is empty and there is ZERO cost incurred by the government,because no services are used.

As for home improvements,there are building permits and inspections done by the county,paid for by my taxes.


BooBoo <---- Not smoking crack,paying my taxes/fees/bonds WITHOUT this magical 'opt out' of which you speak

Right you are Ramblin',but it does go down too.IF you have to move then you do take a loss,had that happen.IF we had held it 10 years,the price had nicely increased,add mortgage payments and such,still a tough row to hoe.
For an owner occupied home,paid off,you are sitting pretty,I agree.Doesnt matter what the percieved price,its your home.

BooBoo

we live in extreme S.W. Neb. (work and go to school in N.W. Kan.) we bought our place 2 years ago.80 acres,2 story older farm house,barn,2 other outbuildings and garage for 56,000. this place had not had livestock on it for 2 years so the grass was really good. we looked for 3 years and were about ready to give up but finally found something that we could afford.

I didn't say every one of those items raised property taxes, I said that most residential property is not 'free and clear' because of these restrictions.

Every structure I build does NOT automatically raise property taxes.
**If you get a building permit, they assess a value based on square footage or structure. PVA will also get a line on your new permit, so you will probably get a new evaluation.

Easements do NOT automatically raise property taxes.
Didn't say they did- but you pay property tax on a portion of land you normally can't do squat on. ie utility or power line easements. Try growing a garden next to an easement the power co sprays.


If your income is not raising then maybe you need to look at your income methods.
**My personal income is fine. Thank you for asking. I was refering to Rose's post of 'rental properties' vs property taxes. Property values have been moving at a national average of 8-10% per year over the last few years. (flamers, I know your area is different- we are taking averages here). Rental income averages are exceptionally low now, and with 0% for homes. More rental properties are sitting vacant as marginal renters are homeowners for now. (Again your story may be different, we are talking national trends here)

What??!!??

My new property is NOT subject to any "electrical and mechanical inspections" and I dont see how they would raise taxes.

**I don't know where you live but new construction and renovations are required to pull permits for plumbing, electrical, and HVAC. There is something called a national building code and inspectors enforce that code. They are paid for by guess what....taxes

What??!!??

pollution laws raise your taxes?
**I don't know what you drink, but water and waste treatment infrastructure are on the govt dime, paid by your taxes. Heard of a septic permit? County health inspector.. paid by your taxes. Permit costs... are taxes.

city sewer hook-up, does NOT raise taxes, your smoking crack dude.
**If you are in a county and the city annexes your property to provide you with sewer and water, it will raise your taxes. In my area City dwellers pay city and county, where county residents only have 1 tax. When your town decides to give wal-mart free water and sewer hookup for 5 years... where do you think they make up the tax base ?

IF your city hooks you up, then they usually begin metering that water flow and bill you for how much water you use. It is also common to use the water-flow metering to determine a seperate billing for sewer usage.
** correct

But many who are on city-water and sewer, still have their previously existing wells and leech-fields. So your only using the city's water and sewer IF you 'WANT' to. And even then your still not taxed on it.
** It seems a majority of developing areas are moving away from the environmental impacts of septic systems. In our area, if the city offers it, you must connect, and condemn your septic. Your area may be different.



No, no, God no.

do you really want to go there?
** Sure, why not.. HYpothetically .. if property values are increasing at 10% a year, how long do you think that 150k ceiling is going to last ? I don't know your age or situation. But 150k will barely be college tuition in another 10 years.(room, books, meals, classes) Again dependent on your area.


Codes and deductions only come into play, when your filing your personal income taxes. they only become important within the coneext of your personal tax-planning strategy.
**The average worker works thru the end of May just to pay their share. Break even day. I don't have enough time to list all the taxes, hidden ones, like inflation.. They are built into everything we earn, buy or sell. I don't know about you, but taxes aren't just a 1 time a year 'thing'.

Look IF you pay income taxes, it is your 'fault'. Your lack of proper tax-planning. Period.
**Please let us all know how you do not pay income taxes. I would love to hear this one. Everybody by law should pay income taxes. If you earn income, then you are taxed. (flamers- bite your lip on that consumption tax thing...-). If you are earning income and not paying tax, then it is you who may have the problem. You probably either pay self- employment tax, get income taxes deducted from your paycheck, pay tax on a distribution from a corporation,or pay capital gains on your investments. They may over tax you a bit and send you back a little at the end of the year, but you still pay them. (Unless you do not claim the income you receive). Deductions are offsets for your income taxes. These are based on current tax code and subject to change.
Or unless you are below the poverty level, or on welfare.

Dont go blaming anyone else.
**I never did.

I hope this helps.
I also do not smoke crack.. thank you..
sheesh...
Best.
[/QUOTE]

Magdabauer hit the nail on the head. We are north of Seattle too. This property was bought in 1979 when no one knew where this place was. Now, we are seeing development moving closer. This place has been paid for for years but the property taxes are higher now than the payments were. We have to move when we retire, there's no way can we afford to stay here.

I like this gem.They put in new houses or businesses,and they need sidewalks and gutters.When a certain point is reached,YOU now have to put in sidewalks and gutters,whether you want them or not,and the price is very high.Refuse? No problem,they put them in for you,at whatever cost they like,and add it to your property tax bill.

Gotta love it.

BooBoo

Thank God for Prop. 13 here,it limits how much they can raise our property taxes.Until it came along,we also had retirees priced right out of their homes by tax madness.

Calif. has lots of problems,but we got that one right,thats for sure.

BooBoo

I have a friend in Ct, where they did that, and he still uses his 'old system'.



Just shows how much you 'know'.

I currently have a building permit.

I am currently in the process of building our new house. My building permit included a document for me to sign, it is a 'self-certification of compliance'. The state does not require any 'building inspector' to ever see a building.

The state does require a septic system inspection if your township has a 'plumbing inspector. Our township does not have a plumbing inspector, so that 'requirement' is waived.

__________________
http://www.mofga.org/

http://www.mofga.org/Programs/FarmAp...2/Default.aspx

To seperate land from houses, I agree.

land is only going up.



makes sense.


[quote]... Everytime I've put money in the stock market or bonds, I've been disappointed. Everytime I've bought property, it has either increased in price or, maybe more importantly,[/quote

You and everyone else too.


Good luck

Fine.

Our place in Washington uses a water meter. they meter water going into the building and bill us on that amount. We get billed twice from that one number. Once for the water, and once again for the sewage.

Our place in California, does not have city water.

Our place in Connecticut does have city water. but again it is not taxed, it is metered and our monthly bills are dependant on the meter reading.

As far as I know, both of our current propertys that do have city water, they dont 'tax' for the sewer plant, they meter the water flow and bill us for how much water we use.

>>>I am currently in the process of building our new house. My building permit included a document for me to sign, it is a 'self-certification of compliance'. The state does not require any 'building inspector' to ever see a building.<<<

Like I said, every state has electrical inspectors. Maybe the inspection can be waived under certain conditions. That doesn't mean the "state" doesn't have them.

We also have people using their old systems. They will continue until they pay a substantial fine and water & sewer arrears back to the day it was available. I am not in maine, and I know states vary, but one fact remains. If your property becomes more valuable, and the tax man finds out, you will pay higher taxes. Doesn't matter what makes it worth more.

If you think your property taxes aren't going up when your house is finished, you are a genius. The kind of genius arkansas landowners love to sell seashore property to.

[QUOTE=ET1 SS]To seperate land from houses, I agree.

land is only going up.





makes sense.


Sweeping generalization,I made 400% on a stock,and lost 25% on a house.All depends which area is moving at the time,it will be real estate,interest,or stocks,just a matter of the timing.

BooBoo

A list of things was presented saying that they raise taxes, they don’t always.


I don’t know what a PVA is. But not until the property is re-assessed will the valuation be changed, and then it is up to the opinion of the assessor.



I did get a single permit for here in Maine. But like I said, I 'self-certify' it, as we don’t have any inspectors. Thus they are not paid. Thus my property taxes don’t go to their salaries.

On that one single permit, you can list as many buildings as you want to. Using additional paper if necessary. All for $75 and they are good for 5 years. That same permit 'assumes' electrical and plumbing stuff will be 'hooked-up as needed'.

Only the septic field needed a inspection, and he filed his form as an addendum onto my building permit application. His inspection did not say that the leech field was done, or good, but rather that such location was a 'good' location.


Yes I got one, rather it is a part of my building permit, but again no health inspector / no taxes to pay him a salary.


Okay fine.

I do own property in other states where we do have city water. In those areas, the water and sewer is metered and you pay according to the meter readings. Not taxes.



First I have an issue with saying that anyone has a 'share' to pay. We don’t.

A wage-slave may well pay income taxes, but that is due largely to his ignorance of tax-planning strategies.

Or he may study proper tax-planning and stop paying income taxes. I don’t pay income taxes. I don’t pay them once a year. I don’t pay them twice a year, Sam I am. ...



Everyone must 'file' for income taxation. That does not mean they 'pay' taxes.

With proper tax-planning and investments strategy, you can easily maintain your tax-sheltering to cover all of your earned incomes. i do.



No, again you file with your employer a tax-with-holding status. On that W-4 form, at the bottom, on line 7

"I claim exemption from withholding for 2005, and I certify that I meet both of the following conditions for exemption.
● Last year I had a right to a refund of all federal income tax withheld because I had no tax liability and
● This year I expect a refund of all federal income tax withheld because I expect to have no tax liability.
If you meet both conditions, write “Exempt” here"

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw4.pdf


No to all the above.

I earn incomes, I also run various businesses. I maintain tax-shelters which over-shadow my earned incomes. leaving me with zero AGI, or a negative AGI, or a very low AGI (so low that I do not owe any taxes).

I do not get in any income that I do not report, that would be illegal and possibly immoral.



My Net Worth is fairly significant. I am not on welfare.

I see, so every state has electrical inspectors and requires them, except those states that dont have any electrical inspectors and thus dont require them.

Okay.



Oh it will go up, but you cant expect to continue to pay $42/year forever. LOL

Talking to my nieghbors, I expect my new property taxes to be around $130/year.

It would be much more, if the town had a town manager or town hall, or anything.

Well, having been a part of the real estate profession, I can tell you that a lot of the problem has to do with real estate agents! Someone would call me about listing their property for sale. They have no clue what its value is on the market, why should they? They've been living in a house for 15 years and haven't been looking at real estate prices. They figure their land is worth about $500 an acre because that's about what they bought it for, way back when.

Well, of course, it's the real estate agents job to EDUCATE them about what the value of their property is. Oh, my no! Don't list it for $500 an acre! First of all, you have to pony up my commission so you have to tack that on right off the bat. Now maybe $$2,500 an acre might seem a little high to you - but you never know, some guy from California might be looking to move here and think it's a real good bargain. In fact, list it at $3,500 an acre so you have some room to negotiate.

There is the problem.

And then you have the real estate agents who "protect your equity". Which means that they are going to encourage you to list your house at 20 percent more than you bought it for to make sure you get your equity (and their commission) out of it.

Right now, in this country (thanks to a lot of complicated laws), the real estate industry CONTROLLS most of the land/home purchases and sales. They dictate what the market price is going to be thanks to what they call a CMA (Comparitive Market Analysis). Of course, that holy commission of theirs is always built right in to the purchase price.

Needless to say, I got out of that career once I saw what it was really about. It was all about making as much money as you possibly could at the expense of buyers and sellers. Blech. I'd rather raise chickens.

Smart folks work hard to find a For Sale By Owner (FSBO) property, and they can hire a real estate attorney to do the paperwork for a fraction of what they would pay a real estate agent in commission. And yeah, you're right. It's depressing as hell.

donsgal
tellin' it like it is.

Land would have been cheaper in the future, by simply having fewer people going after it. Our population would have stabilized in the near future except for those 1+ million and their children who jump across the border each year. Politicians aren't doing a dang thing about it either. Either they are for the cheap labor or they like the socialist voting patterns of the migrants.

www.numbersusa.com is the only way I know how to try and stop it.

I wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it with my own eyes.

Quote""
The Maine Land Use Regulation Commission (LURC or the Commission) was created by the Maine Legislature in 1971 to serve as the planning and zoning authority for the state’s townships, plantations and unorganized areas. The Commission has land use regulatory jurisdiction over these areas because they have no form of local government to administer land use controls, or they have chosen not to administer land use controls at the local level.

The Commission was established primarily in response to a recreational building and land development boom in these areas during the late 1960’s. Its purpose is to extend the principles of planning and zoning; to preserve public health, safety, and welfare; to encourage the well-planned, multiple use of natural resources; to promote orderly development; and to protect natural and ecological values.


The responsibility of guiding land use in these areas represents a unique challenge. The jurisdiction stretches over half the state, encompassing more than 10.4 million acres and the largest contiguous undeveloped area in the Northeast. This is a diverse area that includes several coastal islands and stretches from the downeast area across the western mountains and up to the Canadian border. While the area has an extensive private land management road network, it has few public roads and is sparsely populated. Most development is concentrated along the fringe of the jurisdiction, adjacent to more populous areas where services are more accessible.

from their self compliance form...

Once all construction activities authorized by your permit have been completed, fill out this form and mail the form along with any required attachments to the LURC regional office that serves your area (see below for appropriate address). The Commission may request additional information from you, demonstrating that you have complied with all the terms and conditions of your permit, and may arrange and conduct a compliance inspection.

End Quotes""

You may still get that building inspection, but I'd guess their inspections are the exception and not the rule.

You learn something every day. I stand corrected.