I thought I was going to Jail!

why on earth did you leave your chickens exposed?

they are inside a 6' fence. I built them several structures to hide under if needed, & a very secure hen house. I wouldnt call that totally exposed. I did what I could. how would you go about covering an acre?? any Ideas?

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Dana

The Homesteading Housewife Website
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Oh..I thought you said you saw them all.


Why would you need a full acre for your chickens? That is a lot of land for a few chickens. Or did you also have goats with them?

Anyway..I'm not against you. Just think it was something you should have kept silent. Highly unlikely you'll say anything if you ever shoot another. Methinks you've learned a very valuable lesson.

Hope you never lose another chicken.

Well, she may or may not but I say now and will say again, any animal that attacks the animals I raise for sustenance will be trapped/shot/beat to death with a broom/chopped with an axe/whatever. And I do not care who knows and I do not care what anyone thinks about my choice to do so. Also I do not need anyone warning me that I "might get in trouble" Dang! Luckily I live in a place where folks still believe that human beings and their well being comes first and mind their business about what folks do on their property. In fact even are proud of you for destroying a predator that may have atacked their animals next. Sorry for the rant but I can't fathom the thinking of some folks and I wonder how they would feel if they ever were forced to be Really self sufficient without any help from any person or government. Bet those hawks and bobcats and such wouldn't be quite so darling to them if it meant going hungry!

I have 46 chickens and 2 pygmy goats on that acre. yep. And 2 Mini LaManchas comming to join them in 2 weeks.

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Dana

The Homesteading Housewife Website
Craving Comfort (recipes)
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We put a t post in the middle of an acre square. Then we wired a 12 foot 2x4 to it, upright. We got a spool of cheap 12 pound test fishing line and tied it to the top of the 2x4, ran it to one corner of the fence around the field, over to the next post, then back to the top of the 2x4. Repeat until you are tied to every fence post and your field looks like a circus tent without canvas. The hawks, owls, and eagles can all see the line and are scared to try a dive bomb. Once in a while we find a broken line, usually happens at night.

After a few years, the line rotted and broke, but the birds still seem to avoid the place so far. We'll replace it by spring, though.

http://www.albc-usa.org/about.htm

Its amazing really the number of farm breds that are rare or no longer exist because they were no longer useful to the farms.

TheFinnish chicken is very rare and there are only a few sustainable flocks in that country for example.

Any way review the information and have fun

well.. low n behold!
I WAS protecting some chickens that are on the "CRITICAL" list! = less than 500 breeding birds left! I knew I had some rare breeds... but seems there are even less of some than there are most hawks. nuff said.
I have...
CRITICAL = breeding pairs of Andalusias & Blue Andolusians.
THREATENED = Dorkings & Sussex
RECOVERING = Orphingtons & RIR's
STUDY = Aracanas & Turkens
I agree that SSS is the way to go. But this does make me feel much better.

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Dana

The Homesteading Housewife Website
Craving Comfort (recipes)
Stuff Grandma Made
The Shrinking Housewife

What's with the Critical, Threatened, and Watch breeds on the poultry list, which breeds are being mass produced by commercial hatcheries?

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Zeal, I'm a bit confused here. On the one hand you castigate Monsanto as being 'evil' because they are 'destroying' the environment, but on the other you defend someone that kills an invaluable, endangered, raptor that attacks a CHICKEN! Geez, the fried chicken franchises kill millions of chickens a year! Does that make them potential targets for 'individual rights'? Sheesh.... LOL...

At the same time, I see others on this forum getting cranked up by windpower facilities that supposedly kill thousands (no real evidence that documents actual CARCASSES of raptors, just 'estimates'). Yet if you balance out the number of free ranging chickens against the threat of raptors, then ALL our raptors would disappear within a very few years! Rachel Carson must be spinning in her grave hearing such callous words from you!

I can surely see how disposing of unnatural predators, such as feral cats, falls within sensible environmental management techniques. But I'm quite curious about how you can rationalize the death of an upper food chain raptor against that of a freaking chicken! I think I'll just assume that you invested no actual thought into your response.

As for those who seemed to think that any and all raptors can be shot on sight because their fowl are somehow more 'valuable', what a crock! This is some sort of crazy yuppie self-centered rape of the local ecology! Hawks hunt over areas comprising thousands of acres. If every 'homesteader' shot a hawk due to the loss or potential loss of a freaking chicken, then we'd not have any hawks left within a very short period of time!

Dang city folks! You helped Dana rationalize killing off multiple hawks, as she herself reinforced in a subsequent post! You folks seem to be far worse (because of your far greater numbers) than any 'evil' entity such as Monsanto!!!!! Geez...I STILL can't believe these rationalizations!

Are you really that dense or did you just not read my posts on the Monsanto thread? Perhaps you should take a little time and go back and reread it.

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Endangered? There sure are an abundance of them around here!

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ZYG..What's with you? Killing an endangered hawk can be prosecutable..although I do understand why it was done.

I think Aborethic made some very good points..surely nothing that would warrant being referred to as "dense". I'd like to know specifics about the alleged contradiction between an individual killing a hawk and your supposed Monsanto stance..and not some flippant diversionary comment.

How does your stance on Monsanto not contradict your comments here? What say you?

Did you read my posts on the Monsanto thread? Please feel free to repost them all, in complete context. Did you see a post where I said they were evil and destroying the environment? My contention in that thread has always and consistently been that limiting biodiversity is bad for all of us. By asking a question and soliciting responses I think we had a good discussion... that is what a forum is about isn't it? It taught me some things.

And what EXACTLY did my post here to Dana say? It said, be prepared to be called a murderer and for people to want the number of the game warden. Seems I was right. I didn't say whether I agree with her on shooting it or not. I told her to hang tough because I happen to like her and if she did the right thing and the game warden told her that it was ok, who are YOU or ME who sit at computers thousands of miles away to condemn her. I wasn't there. I didn't see, nor have I experienced what she has.

I honestly don't see the connection between the two other than a personal bone of contention being thrown out. Perhaps you could enlighten me. That is probably why I used the word "dense" because words being placed in my "mouth" (so to speak) and then being used in an argument are poor form.

Let me ask you Qwispea, since this is obviously an afront to you that this hawk has been killed, what are you going to do about it?

Have you ever sped in your car and been let go by a cop? Not had your seat belt on and the officer let you go? Yeah, not federal crimes surely, but the principle is the same is it not?

It would seem that we probably are both on the same page when you say...

"...but I can see why it was done."

If you truly can see why it was done, then I would guess that you would truly see why I responded as I did.

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MississippiSlim
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 101

Well,
If we are talking about enviromentalism and ecological thinking.....really we better all stop raisin domestic animals because we are endagering these predators by providing them easy prey therefore weakening there species by them losing there skills as predators. I think we better just tuen over our chickens, calves, goats, rabbits, etc.

I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED your response (above) that was just dripping with sarcasm! I tend to call the ecologists "tree-huggers", or environmental whackos, like a certain radio personality I've heard. You bet your bottom dollar if something was attacking MY chickens, they'd get 'lead poisoning' too, just like that hawk did!
- Kathy

No, I did not read your posts in the Monsanto thread. Not sure it was a prerequisite toward understanding why another person was referred to as "dense".

So..are you implying that people have no right to "calls em as they sees em"? Many people have responded that chickens are not endangered whereas hawks are. Suppose it was the last hawk on earth? Not quite the scenario..but it could very well have been. The fact of the matter is this: Some people say let the endangered species be protected at the expense of the prolific animal. To me..its a no-brainer.

So..you are basically saying that in your eyes somebody done you wrong..which then..in your eyes..gives you the honor doing them wrong by calling them 'dense'. But remember..two wrongs do not make a right.

Where did I ever say it was an affront to me? Where? I feel bad whenever any animals is killed..and would have felt empathy also had the hawk successfully killed the chicken.

No..never. And could you please explain how the principal is the same?

Perhaps we are on the same page when we say "but I can see why it was done". I don't know that anybody has argued that we are apart in this. However..where we differ is that I do not understand why someone was referred to as "dense" for merely disagreeing with you.

I may "truly see"..but don't approve.


Conclusion...many people feel it was wrong to kill the hawk..same as many people feel it was right. Why do so many people expect 100 % agreement and support when they post a controversial subject? I have a very significant question for you ZYG..and also for TCG..and please bear in mind that my question is posed in light of your above comment about speeding in that you said "...the principle is the same is it not?"

My question is: "What would you have done had it been a bald eagle attacking the chicken?"

i kept an emu with the outside poultry for several years seemed to keep hawks from landing . a pair of very large hawks have nested close by for the last few years and dont have the chicken craving and obviously they keep other hawks to a distance since i dont loose any untill they head south then the wandering migratorys seem to use the area as a kfc for about a wek in the fall when they are on the move owls can be bad at night if you dont have a secure pen , i remember once listening to a screech owl night after night and enjoying hearing him on night i head a great horned owl moving closer that was the last night i heard the screach owl i guess he tasted like chicken i really dont know how salatin manages with his pastured poultry without losing most of them

if we are talking about environmentalism we must balance everything. extreme behavior in any direction is always counter productive. if we do not eat domestic animals we will over-hunt the wild ones if we over produce domestic animals we reduce wild habitat and also create the scenario for diseases like mad cow and avian flu, diseases that can effect wild animals as well as domestic.

if we bust everyone who makes a mistake, no one will respect the system and will not abide by it. if we bust no one, no one will pay head to regulations that protect wild life and habitat.

Well if it was a Bald Eagle , I would have KNOWN that it was an endangered bird and NOT shot it. period. remember.... I didn't know bout the hawks.

And.... I knew for a fact this was not "The last hawk on earth" because I have seen and scared many MANY away by shooting into the air.... (Not at the hawk) This was not the first hawk I have seen.. I love to watch them.. but this was a different situation period.

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Dana

The Homesteading Housewife Website
Craving Comfort (recipes)
Stuff Grandma Made
The Shrinking Housewife

'nuff said ..

I work for the Federal gov't in Washington state and we had problems with a hawk swooping at people. It got so bad that I brought it up as a safety issue, the hawk had drawn blood on a few people. It took 2 month and finally APHIS came in and shot them. They are protected under Federal Law.

I would do the same by practice the 3 S's.

Bobg