Poaching for Food(ROUND TWO)

I wonder if the Holocaust actually happened.. Stan, whatcha say on that subject?

Oh my, don't encourage him....

(donning the Stan the Man hat)

At age 14 I was asked to teach a college class on quantum physics, I .. (SLAP)

...nevermind...

brett, don't even go there..you will entice Stan into telling you a tall tale about how he wrestled some HUGE dangerous snake, with his bare hands, into submission..then he saved someone's life by sucking the venom out of the injection point by cutting X's across the puncture site with his K-Bar combat knife...all at age 4 mind you.

My thoughts on Poaching..it has to be proven to ME..that a law was violated against the intent of the law. If someone is feeding their family, not overharvesting, not wanton killing for the sake of killing..then it is up to me to determine if I need to take action either as a Game Warden, Police Officer, concerned citizen, Jurist, member of a jury.

This may be 2005..but one should believe that somewhere in the U.S., someone is feeding their family on game animals taken "out of season".

No need to twist that, color that something different..it is happening. And, I am sure that Game Wardens, Police Officers, Judges are well aware of that..and nothing is being done against the "wrongdoer" due to the circumstances. AND, I am sure that there ARE convictions due to the circumstances as well. It works both ways.

The LAW is NOT black and white as Stan thinks it is, in his world of make believe, bravado spewing, bullsheet and tall tale telling. If there were laws for wanton BS, Stan would be in jail for the rest of his life.

Fishing requires a license EXCEPT on your own land, or somebody else's with their permission.... but you can do THAT year round.

And most water supports something like 300-500lbs of fish per surface acre.... it's MORE productive (of game) than dry land..... and supposed to be brain food to boot.

For that matter, ANYBODY can live off a half acre garden or less.... why is everybody talking about poaching to live rather than looking at gardening? You could probably even do it on shares if you don't own land yourself, particularly with landowners unable (due to age, infirmity, absenteeism, or work schedule) to put in a garden themselves.

Who needs hunting.......?

you cant garden in the winter.
you cant live on a veggie garden, you need meat.
(I know.. veggietarians do it, Ive tried living on veggies and I was sick as a pig most of the time... I need flesh, so sue me)

an a side note... I went to get kerosene today, a 17 mile ride.
I passed 5 dead deer on the road.
now... NORMALLY all yr... you hardly ever pass even one now and then.
5 all in one day? on the same road?
along the road are hunters parked.. archery season I think it is here. (I dont know but I did see 2 hunters suiting up along the road and a few parked trucks elsewhere) so, for every one deer a hunter actually harvests how many do they drive out onto the road where they get whacked?

I cant find a study for that one, they probably dont want you to know that it could psooibly double the "official" hunting season harvest?

I travem that road alot, and normally, I see only a few deer dead all year...

today hunting season? 5 dead on the road?

mmm mm mm

anyone got stats on how many deer hunters drive out onto trafic every yr?

from a PA site...;

Pennsylvania ranks first among the top ten worst states for vehicle-deer collisions, according to an insurance survey published Thursday.
Citing claim statistics, auto insurer State Farm said that drivers in Pennsylvania experienced more deer collisions than any other state between July 1, 2004 and June 30, 2005.

Apparently, most hunters are not drivers.

In order to avoid such collisions, State Farm says drivers should use their high-beam headlights as much as possible to illuminate deer hiding on the side of the road and to not rely on car-mounted ‘deer whistles,’ which studies show not to affect the animal.

Or, drivers are encouraged to buy expensive hunting clothes and rifles, then drive around in orange. This seems to be the best way to avoid seeing deer in the Keystone State.

Depends on where you live & how smart you are. Where I'm now (40 miles from the Mexican border) you can. Where I'm moving to (SE OK), some things will overwinter, other things can be left in the field (corn, some root crops, etc), AND you can garden during the winter with a cold frame or jury rigged hoophouse.

Heck, National Geographic once featured a ------- who (after the USSR started falling apart) built a greenhouse using old plastic bags.... he ironed layers of them together, stuck it all on a scrapwood frame, & was commercially raising veggies in midwinter IN MOSCOW. If he can do that there with those materials, SURELY any one of us can do as good or better with what is available here?

Besides, the whole part of farming/gardening IS TO HAVE A SURPLUS. You dry or can stuff in spare moments all through the summer and fall. Grain & winter squash & taters keep all winter with minimal storage effort. So even though you CAN garden during the winter (if an emergency comes up), you don't normally need to.

As you note, more than a billion vegetarians do it worldwide. And yeah, most of the vegetarian cuisine I've seen has tasted pretty bad. But that was mostly because it's a case of hippies & inexperianced college students trying to cook foreign food with exotic ingrediants RATHER than relying on local stuff.

Doesn't cornbread & beans sound good? With pumpkin pie on the side? And hashbrowns? And homegrown tomatoes? Bean burritos? Hushpuppies? Fresh bread warm from the oven, dripping with margarine? Watermelon or strawberries for desert? Tomato or vegetable soup to dip it in? Neh, you CAN EASILY live just off a garden (although I admit it tastes better if you trade some extra produce for CHEESE! And then you can make pizza).

But who says go vegetarian? Raise a large garden & trade the excess (you WILL have excess, believe me!) for the meat you want. Use your spoiled produce to raise chickens or ducks (they'll also eat bugs out of the garden, and weeds you give them) or turkey. A quarter acre of corn will provide enough to raise a hog & give you bacon/porkchops/sausage every day of the year if you've a freezer (or salted bacon/smoked ham/sausage if you don't).

How fresh were they? Unless you're driving out along the road every day, any genuine roadkill isn't likely worth salvaging unless you're looking for dog food.

Wonder if it's a case of hunters spooking deer onto the road? Or deer moving around more due to the hunting, and getting hit by the increased rural traffic?

true, I used to dehydraye a lot of stuff.. beets potatoes beand carrots cabbage... apples peaches pears apricots tomatoes...

I used to be a real good gardener/preserver.... I'm getting old and lazy. lol

I used to eat like that, I was overweight and tired all the time.. carb overload.
I lost weight and fell 100% better not using starch as a staple... might be the genes, everyone here is a diabetic of one kind or another.... so far i aint but since I stopped the starch based diet I sure feel better.
so bread potatoes and anyting but wholegrains is a limited serving... I used to make a meal out of potatoes corn bread and beans... not anymore.
too bad, it was easy to fee me. I used to bake bread all the time... mmmmmm a half a loaf for lunch...
[homer voice] mmmmmmm bread...

bad genes suck.
but if you can handle the food... yeap, I guess you can live on it.
I did.... I didnt eat meat for yrs.
I tell ya getting old is really a pain... I USED tio have turkeys and geese, and ate eggs all the time. I recently got 9 duucks they lay eggs all over the place... hello? I discover I am allergic to duck eggs.
anyone way 4 really really good egg layin ducks??
lol
yeah eggs... good point. I'll stick to chicken eggs... the local farms raise happy chicken eggs, 1 buck a doz. saves me work. turkeys make really good pets...I couldnt eat them they are so... friendly.

I can whack wild ones.... got lots of those.
oh now you want me to hand raise a piggy and the eat it... I aint got the heart for it. I knew a girl who raised pigglets, she trained them to catch frisbees and .... then she ate them.
Brrrrrrr.... I cant name it play with it then eat it.
I'd rather whack a wild pig... unfreindly mean critters, they beg to be shot.
I checked 2 the rest were to torn up. one still would bleed out thru the nose when stepped on and the blood was fresh, but I didnt have nmy truck.
I coulda made ground meat... oh well there will be more and fresher come along.

tis the season... I better dig out the grinder.

One item that is getting whacked to death is the matter of using a rifle to hunt turkeys. In Texas, as it has been posted, it is illegal to do so. In Missouri it is too. However, I think in South Dakota it is LEGAL to hunt wild turkeys with either a shotgun or rifle, which I read in my turkey hunting magazine in an article about that topic. Your state hunting laws may vary and likely what is legal to do in one state is not legal in another.

Another item is the perception that everyone has/should have a freezer/refrigerator. Some people do, some don't. Some have them but perhaps they lost their job and couldn't pay the electric bill and now have no power to run it/them. In any case, if you have a power outage of more than just a few hours you may end up losing food as it heats up or thaws. There goes your stored up food.

In some states or parts of states, it is very difficult to get food assistance. Even if you can get it easily, you may not receive enough to survive more than a week, if that. From what I have seen in my county, what you are able to receive from the food pantries/state agencies might net you enough to live one to two weeks at the most, and that is if you eat little at each meal. You would still need money to buy food.

In some areas the work is seasonal and you work from dawn until dusk (in some industries) during the summer and then you are laid off all winter. Unless you have a family, if you have a job like that, you might not be able to grow a garden large enough to take you through the winter. Or you may have just started a new job after being laid off due to downsizing, just starting to get your savings built back up...then you get downsized again. You cover the utility bills, the rent/mortgage and perhaps your insurance/vehicle payments so you can look for work. Some, even when they scrimp and cut and pinch pennies still won't have much left to buy food on.

Additionally, you can harvest wild foodstuffs on your land and on some conservation lands, but even then you can't harvest all that you want unless you desire to destroy the source of the food. That is, you can only harvest so much from an area before you wipe it out. That wouldn't be a good thing if you figure you might need that food source for next year. Also, you might not get enough to survive on if you are balancing food finding with job seeking.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me what the difference between hunting the day before opening season or the day after the season and during the season if you have unfilled tags. Or if you use an unfilled archery tag during firearms season or vice versa. In Missouri if you are a landowner with at least 5 acres, you receive a certain number of free landowner tags, which can be received by all who reside (lease/rent/own) on the property. Say for example you have 80 acres and a family of 10 that can all hunt deer. Each hunter would receive: 2 resident landowner firearms antlerless deer tags, 2 resident landowner archery antlerless deer tags, 2 resident landowner archery turkey (either sex) hunting tags, 2 resident landowner archery deer (either sex) tags, 2 resident landower fall firearms turkey (either sex) tags, and 1 resident landowner any deer tag.

This means each person living on that land can harvest a total of 7 deer and 4 turkey. For the hypothetical 10 member hunting family on 80 acres, hunting in season, they could harvest a total of 70 deer and 40 turkeys. Legally they could wipe out all of the deer and turkey moving across their land and that of their neighbors in one season. Then it would take a few years for deer and turkey from other areas to fill the vacancy. Now, if you have one person, hunting out of season, harvesting one deer a month to survive on, NOT for antlers, is that as harmful to nature as the family who can legally wipe out two game species in the local area for a few years during the regular hunting seasons?

The only laws that have force when needing to survive are the natural laws, that is, you do what it takes to not perish. Laws made by humans are artificial laws made for the sake of some kind of social order. However, those artificial laws have no force or standing against natural laws. Saying that it is illegal to grow a personal garden, for example, might be lawful and legal, but it is in violation with the right to provide food for oneself. Banning the ownership of firearms might be legal and lawful with a law, but it contradicts the natural right to defend oneself.

I knew a family when I was growing up that had lean times. The father would harvest a deer or two each year to suppliment what the wife could store up during the summer. Both worked at what jobs were available at the time and it still wasn't enough. They refused food stamps and other charity. They believed in taking responsibility for their own support and did it independent of any government organization. It was never asked if it was in season when he hunted. He provided and harvested from the land what was needed.

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I would challenge anyone here to think of a question upon which we once had a scientific answer, however inadequate, but for which now the best answer is a religious one. – Sam Harris

No. That is just political speak to try to control the masses and make it seem okay. Not everyone takes handouts from the government. I am not making a judgement on those who do but don't lie by saying everyone takes handouts. That is incorrect.

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Calling me a liar doesn't make me one. All Americans are on the dole in one way or another. This doesn't mean that all Americans get a check in the mail every month, but rather that there are so many governmentally funded projects that help all Americans that one or another of these projects provides something for each of us. This is why we are many trillions of dollars in debt as a nation.

If you drive on public highways, drink clean water, attended a public or private school, visit hospitals, or clinics, are protected by city, state, or county police, the FBI, CIA, the military, fly in airplanes, ride on cruise ships, or just depend on the city bus, and the list of goverment programs we all benefit from goes on nearly for ever. Even if we pay our fair share of taxes no one of us pays for everything we receive, this why our government is so far in debt.

The $6 billion dollars a month the American goverment is spending on the war in Iraq is to protect you from harm. We are borrowing the money to pay for the war in order to give all Americans freedom, and some say cheaper oil.

Our government does more than just hand out money to the poor, the government has its hand and money in nearly every part of our lives; everyone's lives, and if you are an American, yours too.

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