Wind or Solar?

Not really true. We live in Vermont. We get almost constant winds on our land. So much so that a big wind farm company wants to put up 30 MegaWatts (yes, mega!) of wind towers on our ridge. This is not all that uncommon in our area and we are nowhere near the coast. In fact, our dominant winds come from the west, across the entire continental USA.

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids

Yeah, ain't that the end all. Our "coop" does the same - at the end of they year they "donate" any excess credits to themselves. Then in January they want to make us pay for power if we haven't earned enough new credits. It's wrong.

Look into computers that use less power. Seriously.

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SugarMtnFarm.com -- Pastured Pigs, Poultry, Sheep, Dogs and Kids

I'm wondering if your missing the point here southwest..
The turbine is just one part of the Whole system.
Put all the componets together and then subtract for a rebate.

Shure I can sell you a turbine for $ 500........But then wait till you see the rest of my bill for a tower etc.......

Yup,....... you'll poop your pants.

It seems to me from what you guys said, that solar is a whole lot better than wind. Not more expensive, and a whole lot more predictable, and it doesn't come on a 100 ft tower, with a whole lotta building codes.

Didn't mean to pick on you. Just, I do not, still do not, understand your accounting practices. Does not seem to add up. I can buy a new car engine for $50, if I buy the rest of the car for $23,450 too I guess. Means nothing, if I want a car, I need to pay $23,500 and I get the whole thing.

Solar can be started small, added on to. If you are on a budget can work out better that way.

Wind, big & expensive are far more efficient, better to jump in whole-hog with a $50,000 or more setup. Such things depend upon you living in a high wind area. A tiny windmill can produce power, but does not offer a whole lot of bang for the buck. (Unless, your accounting practices can make it different! )

So, for the home hobbiest, solar panels might be the few buck at a time way to go.

Still, you have some major power draw there. You won't make a big dent in what you use with solar panels for quite some time. You should be able to pare your use down by 50% realisticly. I run a whole farm with 40 head of cattle on the power you are consuming.....

--->Paul

To me you need the best of both. I much prefer a "hybrid" system.........meaning both wind and PV. The PV has a limited window of daylight hours. And so very very often when the sun ain't shinning the wind is a blowing.
The smile on my face as I glance at the system meters in the power room, just before going to bed, seeing all the wind energy being put into my batteries...........nope ya can't do that with just PV.

""Look into computers that use less power. Seriously.""
Amen to that. If I can run a laptop and a printer plus stuff like fans and answering machines on four panels and a one hundred buck inverter from Dick Smiths or Tandy chain-store electrical outlets, it can't be all that hard to use laptops as servers, can it?
Plus two 12 volt irrigation pumps and a house pressure pump, lights, CD and radio, guitar amps and electronic keyboards, etc, etc..
It sounds like a massive overkill or, with respect, an attempt to live a suburban lifestyle in a non-suburban setting.
On the subject of wind, the factor that has not been mentioned is the fact that wind-power works at night, all night if the wind blows. But as power for your buck, down here at least, solar is far more viable costwise.
Edit:..and in the time it took to type this, Jim has mentioned just that very fact

In my area, most of the wind blows in the daytime (called valley breeze). But then, during storms, the wind blows day and night, and there isn't much sunshine... It seems that initially, solar panels are the best option. Then, once half the utility bill is off my back, I can get wind. Sound right? Also what do you guys think about solar track-mounts?http://store.yahoo.com/affordablesolar/zomut1.html
Edit: This webpage has more info on 'em http://shop.altenergystore.com/itemd...SWBP2150S%2D08

Again, you can pay big bucks, or as a friend did, build your own with a welder and bicycle parts. I am high in enough up in lat not to really need one, and being in the driest continent on earth (with a 52 inch rainfall) helps.

For the tracker mount?

Driest continent on earth, having *52* inches of rain/year? Over here, last year, 32 inches of rain just about set a record.

Something interesting and a little OT,but not much.Lots of Australia is hot,so they use unisolar brand panels which gain efficiency in the heat,not lose it.Also interesting,is while they cost more per watt,in the real world they produce more watts per panel,evening out that cost difference.
http://www.prometheusenergy.com/html/unisolar.html

West,I think your first foray should be into a couple panels and see how they really work.Then add slowly.Want a ton,get a grid system installed and get your rebate.Real world thats about a 50% savings.If you are a business,there are still other credits that can get you up to 75% rebated.Also,thanks to world demand,panel prices have gone up,bummer.

Sounds like you are a business.

Finally,rule of thumb is,every dollar spent on conservation saves 3 dollars in generation costs.So lifestyle change has a big payoff.

But as said,it all costs money.Pay upfront for alt. sources now,or pay grid forever.Thats how it works.

I consider a workable home system with all I need as a new car.Which do I want to invest in? If we go offgrid,I will skip the new car and get a system.

Finally,depends on lifestyle.How much do you need vrs. afford.Lots of folks get by very small and do just fine.

Lots of motorhomes with 500 watt systems that run lights/sat tv and internet/computer and lights.They use very little generator backup,but they do use it and need it.If you are mid to socal,you are in a good solar area,thats for sure.

BooBoo

Oh,you mention trackers,I think its 20% or so increase in panel output with a tracker.So buy a tracker,or 20% more panels,works out the same.I would like trackers,may or may not get them.Might be better not to include a mechanical system and just add some more pretty reliable panels.

Random thoughts Im tossing out,YMMV.

BooBoo

I'll look into that. I definitely live in a hot climate!

75% of the time the UV index is above 8 (usually 10-12).

The consenses fo a good size group of designers-installers that I'm involved with is Not to use trackers. Even the hi $$
trackers fail now and again and means the installer has to go sort out the problem and repair what ever.
Not so with a fixed array...........set em and walk away.
But if the owner doesn't mind tinkering now and again and replacing a smoked control card....

bottom line; get more panels and forget the tracker.

I don't mind tinkering a bit, replacing parts every so often. I would not be mounting it on my roof, because my neighbor (the housing contractor) says it causes roofs too leak, and it is a lot of hassle to get off the roof later, if the roof needs repair. If it would cause major problems either for the panels or overall, I would like to know.

:30AM
Below is a pic of George right after returning from a helicopter
ride. Wow! Have you ever flown in a helicopter? It is sooooo exciting!

2:30PM
The Team is heading out from Backwoods Solar and moving
North, maybe as far as the Town of Bonners Ferry!

http://vagabonders-supreme.net/blog/...e_archive.html

Scroll about halfway down the page to the picture of the helicopter taken at the owners house of Backwoods Solar.Pretty pic of 'some' of his modules in trackers.Who says solar doesnt pay,quite a spread eh?Somewhere there is another pic of modules,but I cant find it at this time.

Sorry,i couldnt get the pic to link so you will have to go to site to see it.

BooBoo

I didn't read all the posts and someone may have mentioned this, I noticed you lived in California. I believe they have a Grid tie/reverse metering program where you can generate and run the meter backwards getting a credit for what you generate and then pull off the grid at night or when not generating. This eliminates batteries and used the grid as a storage source. I believe it is the most efficient and you can add more cells or mills as you want. check out siemens and bp solar for info. I wish Alabama had a reverse metering law. Good luck

Regarding trackers. I know of at least 3 or 4 people, probably more, with the 2 xis trackers that have trouble with one or both of the motors. One family has a couple of them with 8 to 12 panels on each tracker, and since the motors or controls quit working, they face different odd directions and of course do worse than a fixed rack facing south.

When we added 12 panels to our system last summer (1.5ks total), I considered a tracker--I have a small Zomeworks tracker that I got used, and it works fine--but I decided that the INSTALLED cost of the tracker would be about $1500 more than the installed cost of my home-build adjustable rack. My rack is close to the ground and is supported on 2 steel posts set in concrete, and cost $500 for all materials for the rack and footings. The tracker would have required 15 to 20 feet of 6 inch steel tubing, costing around $500 for just the tubing, plus $1500 for the tracker, plus a couple of yards of concrete and digging a hole 3 to 4 feet in diameter and 5 to 6 feet or more deep, and the work of setting up the 6 inch pipe and then installing the tracking rack and panels 10 feet or more in the air--lots of money and hard work. So I went with the home-built rack (had a local steel shop weld up some of the parts), spent some of the difference in cost of tracker versus fixed rack on an Outback MX60 MPPT charge controller, and am very pleased.

And so you have it folks. The good words of WisJim.
His reasoning makes so much sense.
This way he can leave his home and not at all worry about a tracker failing in the wrong direction.
anybody care to ask WisJim to talk about his wind equipment..??

Guess I should say that I've known Jim and his wife for several years now, all because of the MREA and its huge energy fair every June. Ya gotta listen to guys like him who have been living with this equipment for a long while.

If possible I'd go for both that way you are covered if one fails. The more options you have the better off you are. However I do understand about the prices......

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DON'T TREAD ON ME
working-mom
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I'm a redneck woman and I ain't no high class broad!!!