Wind or Solar?

Are you anywhere near Cajon Pass? A fellow up there,and many others have windplants.They could really help you out.I know you have to jump through a lot of hoops,starting with the county building and codes departments,then the utility has to clear it too.Then on the local level there may be problems with permitting.
I believe anyone can install it here,but its very difficult for a homeowner.You really would be better with a solar/wind pro,but its possible to do it with others.

Let me know your general area,if up around Victorville,
www.partsonsale.com
folks can give you a lot of info,if you stop at the shop they will talk your ears off and are extremely knowledgeable.

BooBoo

Thanks for your quick reply! I'll look into building codes.

Booboo the -mi is short for Michigan

The rebate for this big system would only be 2k........and that is if I don't commision it untill Jan 06.
We have been going round and round with the zoning- planning- permit- IDIOTS since late March. Final "aproval" was mid Sept. I don't think the man will want to wait till Jan to see his bird flying.

Yes southwest, good towers do cost a bunch. For my job the 120' mono pole tower lists for $25,100. Theres 36 cubic yards of concrete in the base .........not cheap.

So again $600 for a wind turbine system is a totally unrealistic missleading figure.

i know you are interested in a MUCH bigger system...but we put up two air x 403's at our place and doing all of the labor ourselves the cost including poles and parts came to just about $1000.00 each.

__________________
www.MontanaSticksAndStones.com at Goshen Farm

Jim,

As I said, the turbines themselves would be $374 (after rebates). The 30' poles would be $230. The big, but more "hidden" costs would be batteries, inverters, etc.

Battries need not be a huge investment. I use a bank of four 12 volt marine battries, and get six years from them before they need replacing. This works out way cheaper than deep-cycle. Certainly, as a previous poster said, some lifestyle changes are necessary, like a laptop rather than a desktop, no vac cleaners, microwaves, blenders, etc, but we have lived quite comfortaby for the last 22 years on four panels, just what wattage they are I can't remember, but they have never needed to be changed.
The biggest problem IO have had was using a 12 volt fridge, which drew too much power.
I use lpg gas for cooking and hot water, and for the few times when it gets cold enough to need a heater, and frankly I think there is a great deal of overkill and hype, and in some cases just plain old bull involved in Solar suppliers estinates of what is necessary for a comfortable lifestyle.
And who needs a noisy, smelly generator roaring away half the day..? Thats the sort of thing you want to get away from, I guess.
Passive solar design is far more inportant than extra panals.

I get headaches from diesel, and I don't particularly like my backyard smelling like a fats-food restaurant (typo deliberate).

You want to be warm or what? Sheesh.

__________________
Rudeness is a small man's imitation of power.

But they dont give rebates on parts of the system,it has to be COMPLETE installed system to qualify.To get the 1.70/watt rebate its on the ENTIRE 6kw system,which includes turbines,poles,inverters,wiring,fuses,grounding,me ters,bases,permits,everything.Also,you cant use cheaper parts,towers have to be approved architecturally(BIG BUCKS!),inverters have to be state of the art.All adds up.So your system would cost many many thousands more,say 20-25,000 total(or more) to qualify for your 11,000 rebate on the SYSTEMS rated output,which is actually figured for rebate at the 1.70/watt rate.All the rest isnt rebated so to speak,just the total system size in watts is.
So you dont get every item rebated at 1.70,just total system wattage is what the rebate is based on.In your case you would get 11 Grand,regardless what the complete installed system costs you,and only get the rebate AFTER it is all on grid and functioning and final approval/inspection from the electric company.

So true costs would be closer to 20000-10,580 rebate=9420 total cost,or 25,000-10580=14,420.If not a lot more even,Jim-mi could tell you the true cost most likely very accurately.
Also,adding pole costs,wiring and such,a larger turbine would probably be a better choice than 2 smaller 3 kw turbines.There is an economy of scale,at least in the very large systems I know thats a fact.

I think thats closer to what you would be facing,folks correct me if Im wrong.I havent done this,just read accts. for many years from those who have.

Hope that helps Southwesteader.

PS,start reading the bimonthly www.homepower.com
you will be up to speed real fast on how it works out.

BooBoo

I guess it's more a matter of which company you would prefer to empty your pockets for.

Also any competent "inspector" would not allow any rebates when he saw a turbine on a 30' stick. There are VERY few areas in the USA where you would even think about using anything that short.
Rule of thumb is to put a turbine mim of 30' above any surounding trees- homes- barns, etc, How tall is your
"home" ??............ok so maybe you live underground.

Booboo is correct in that any rebates--anywhere-- are for total systems. Thats why I ask you not to mislead folks into thinking that they can get a wind (or PV ) system for next to nothing.

sisterpine, ah yes my very first unit was a Air 303 on a home made 45' tower. That thing was a screamer. Sounded like a Piper Cub trying to take off. I don't miss that toy.

Pete, "When it gets cold enough to need a heater"......wow around here a heater is needed darn near 6 months of the year. We definately live in different zones...............lol

............jim-mi , which wingin around 1 kw would you recommend ? I can build a self raising tower for a 1k bucks that would be 70 to 80 feet tall out of Rohn 25g tower . The tower prices I've seen quoted on some of these mfger websites are way TOO high in my opinion . fordy...

Fordy,

You haven't priced much steel lately, have you? Standard steel forms from the factory have doubled in the past four years. Rohn, which went belly up and was "pieced out" is gone. Rohn 25G sections (new) are going for about 200.00 per 10 foot section these days. (I was a long time Rohn distributor.)

As far as "wind power" goes, watch out. I live in southern New Mexico and have all my life and nearly any resident would tell you that the wind blows most of the time here. It doesn't really, on an annualized basis. You need to do a survey at your particular site. There is an instrument used, that looks like an anemometer, but isn't. It measures "cumulative" wind. Danged if I can remember what they call it. Surveys around here have shown that the wind really doesn't blow as much as we thought over the course of an average year.

On the "wind vs. solar" issue, I'd be a lot better off spending my money on solar panels, as would most people.

The best "generation" is in economization, as has been pointed out. There's ---- few one household situations that need 7 kw at one time, given the proper economy measures.

Bob

It helps to be a cynic, and expect that most people are out to line their pockets at your expense (I am not talking about anyone on this Board), which is a sad reality, and the alternative energy industry is no exception.
Rather than have someone tell you what you want, and empty your pockets in the process, work out what you need to start with. You can allways expand the system later. Incorporating energy saving features in the construction reduces all your energy needs.
Jim, Hi, the heater gets used in the mornings in winter, which gets cold enough for a light frost one or twice each season, but the advantage of using passive solar design is that, as long as the sun shines, a house will heat up like a glasshouse in the afternoons and no extra heating is necessary.

This makes no sense at all. You have to build an entire system, produce the power, and _then_ you first get the rebate. You are doing some real screwy math, like an Enron deal, to come up with a $600 set of turbines. That's real bad accounting.

You likely need to spend $28-45,000 before you get any rebate at all. Misleading people to thinking they only spend $600 is just real poor.

--->Paul

I sure didn't mean to decieve anybody. It was my own calculations... I probably didn't read the fine print about full system installations.

Actually, 5.3 is my average, 6.5kw is probably my peak. Also, remember I run a few server comps...

Come on guys,be nice.Southwesteaders didnt mean to mislead folks,he was asking for advice.

I had a friend in the desert tell me he could run a 3000 sg foot house,with a pool and refer air conditioning on a 20,000 dollar solar system.Some yahoo told him this to sell him a system that would have done zilch for him.Plus he would get half back in a rebate,so only 10,000 bucks.

I agree,you can do it cheaper.But not engineered up to code thats safe in a neighborhood.This stuff costs money,just the way it is.

As for wind,up in the pass here its viable.That is,until the McMansions moved in and dont want to live in a "POWER STATION",and started their squawking about it.Looks like they will soon be legislated out in this part of the county.
There certainly arent any bootleg systems of any size there.

BooBoo

Bob------The good news is that Rohn has been bought up. They are in the throws of getting back on their feet and have rehired many of the key people that they had. The 120' mono pole I'm using for my big job is being built by them (all be it slowly).

BooBoo ----My "thing" on this whole thread is seeing incorrect information posted about a subject that is near and dear to me.. Ok call me windy if you want (chuckle) but I really believe that Wind power is *one* of the answers to energy problems in not only this country but around the world....not even an issue.
So I just want to see accurate real world facts and figures posted.

Please help me down off my soap box........and then I'll shut up<<<<<

Agreed,accurate info is of prime importance while we spread the message that alternate energy DOES work.We need to fight the propaganda with the truth.

BooBoo

Could you post your figures? 'Cause I do still want to know the costs. You probably know them better than I do, but I came up with 3,500 after rebate for the whole system. The $600 figure was the turbines themselves.