Srbenda's Pole Barn Conversion
 

Hello HT...

I recently purchased a house in SE Penn, that came with a nice 4 acre parcel of land. It also came with this 4 stall pole barn.

http://breadman.smugmug.com/photos/i...-BSprDGZ-L.jpg

So, having a 4-stall barn is great, but it's not really what I need. I would like to do the following:

Convert 3 of the 4 stalls into a rustic cabin/ art studio, and leave the end stall for my livestock, which I plan to be a few sheep, the offspring of which will be butchered each fall.

The rustic cabin will have a simple wood floor, maybe a layer of insulated foam panels on the walls, and a small stove for winter heat.

So, my questions:

1) Can I have livestock next to "living space" without terrible odors? And what do I need to do to make sure the odors stay out.

2) The barn has a dirt floor, what would be the best way to install flooring, attached to the barn poles, or as a separate structure in the barn?

These are probably terrible questions, but I need to figure out if this is an awful idea before I get into it.

for your fist question yes you just need to seal off the wall between the cabin/ art studio to air flow. no windows or doors on that wall. I would but the barn stall entrance on one end wall and the cabin door on the opposite end wall. if you have windows in the cabin some odor may come in that way. I have two sheep and they do not have terrible odors. in the winter time I bring them up to the house where my house makes up part of the fence. they are right outside my back door and windows and I get no odor.

for the second question the building in question does not appear to be very tall. installing a wood floor does not appear to be an option. the wood would be to close to the ground and would not last. I would level the dirt and pour concrete for a floor.
if you are bent on building a wooden floor system I would level the dirt. depending on the width of the building ( I would guess 12 feet or so just looking at the picture) and the available height (guessing about 8 feet at the walls). i would dig and pour concrete pier footings down the center Evey 8 feet or so and place a small peer ( one block based on my previous guesses. place the heaviest plastic that you can get down and seal it up best you can. build a double 2x6 beam (again using my guesses. if the building is taller I would use 2x8 or 2x10's) to go the length of the building down the center and between the poles on both side walls. side wall beams would be attached to the poles. run floor joists between side wall beam to center beam using joist hangers and from center beam to other side wall beam. then plywood and finish as you choose.

Yes, I do want to stick with a wood floor, for both cheapness, and authenticity. That, and I can probably supply all the wood from my land.

Go to somebody's barn that has animals then form your opinion on the odors..I wouls go with a concrete floor then later put down a wood floor with sleeper joists.......

Smells will seep up through a wood floor.

If you wish to use wood with joists first you need to dig down past any dirt that would contain any animal waste or urine. Then you can build your floor above that creating a crawl space under it. You will also ventilate that space to the exterior.

WWW

The barn has not been used in over 25 years, so any soil on the barn floor now should be pretty straight. I have some locust trees on the property that I plan to use for flooring, which is a pretty moisture resistant wood, which will also work for the floor joists.

I am more worried about using the end stall for a few sheep, and odors that might drift over from one side to the other.

If you're willing to work at keeping a lot of carbon in the stall, it will soak up most of the smell. Still, a solid (insulated) wall is something I'd recommend.

As to the floor, it looks like the land slopes off at the far end. If I'm seeing that right, you could dig out the existing floor to keep the wood off of the dirt and put in a french drain to get rid of the water seepage.

Excellent idea. The land does slope exactly as you see it. A french drain on the high end of the building would certain eliminate alot of future water/ moisture issues.

Invest in some gutters while your at it, theres lots of damage there.

Yep, that too. Any suggestions how to put something up there that won't stand out as a glaring eyesore? Or should I just buy brown gutters?

I have brown guttering on all of my buildings, it doesn't stand out like the white.

I would pour a footer between the sheep area and the rest. Make sure dirt floor in sheep shed slopes away from finished building. Build a stud wall between using a treated 2"x4" on top of concrete. Dig down and set deck blocks and build floor like a deck only use flooring....James

I've seen done what you're talking about and it works provided the dividing wall between the critters and you goes from earth to sky and has a vapor barrier installed on both sides of the stud wall underwall sheating. I'd dig a footing under the proposed wall and keep all air space underneath and above the rooms separate from one another.

It's kind of like a dairy barn. They will not allow you to build a new facility that doesn't have the milk parlor and milk room totally segregated from earth to sky to keep milk contamination down from odors and flies.

The first thing I would want to know is this; is the barn structurally sound? I know photos can be deceiving, but it appears that the bottom of the long wall in the picture is Not plumb, and somewhat "kicked out" away from vertical. If this is the case, that will cause huge moisture issues if you seal the wall from the inside.

Can you provide dimensions of the building? Including wall height. A few more pictures from opposite sides, and inside pics would help us help you.

Either way, good luck with your project.

The frame of the building is sounds, but the wall you see, is covered in doors. Those will all be removed and replaced with an actual wall.

Hopefully, I can actually start doing work on this thing sometime in mid-November.

Quick update:

I removed the timbers that were separating stalls 2&3. I got part of the timbers down between stalls 1&2. These are big timbers, at least 8' long, and 5" thick. Nice stuff.

Here's a terrible picture of the interior today.

http://breadman.smugmug.com/photos/i...-nsZHzcS-L.jpg

Hope you are saving that wood. You'll have some nice square foot garden plots. I can see many wonderful uses for your barns. Your place will be beautiful with all the animals.

They will most likely become floor joists. They are made exactly for the width of the building, so they should work well.

Got some black locust trees on my land milled into boards for the flooring. I had some cut 1" thick, and some cut 2" thick. It's especially good looking wood, considering it's locust. Very nice swirls and grain.

http://breadman.smugmug.com/photos/i...-3jp4MRx-L.jpg

Not to be nosey, but what does someone charge to have a tree milled? I am thinking of having some done in the future.

There's a sweet spot between what an individual (with a mill) can charge and what someone can go and get wood from the store for... For almost a decade, a local guy charged 22c/bf, then went up to 25c/bf. He went out of business (he was 78) and then, "after" I got my own, he got better (he's now kissing 80) and bought another mill, and gets 30c/bf. He'll come out to your place and do it all. Several other folks around, they're all getting around 30c/bf also.

Some millers will do wood on the halfsies, if you have good wood. They cut a tree for you, then a tree for them. Works great if you have lots of wood available.

Not really economical to get 2x lumber cut... almost the same price as store bought wood, without any of the work. You come out good with 1x lumber, and any kind of beams (as you can't buy beams readily anywhere).

Also, there's a blade charge... provide trees with nail or wire, and break a blade, you pay for it... my blades are around $30 each.

If you go on the forestryforum.com and ask, sure there's some folks up there that'd cut for you.

I paid $60/hour

Which included setup time, but not breakdown time.
I have no idea what that worked out to per board foot, but I am pretty sure it was a bit more than $.30 per bf.

Of course, I am in a pretty urbanized area, where prices are higher on everything...

it might just pay for me to invest in a small mill. I saw a chainsaw mill for $500.

Tex, if you don'y mind me asking, what kind of mill do you have?

I've got a woodmizer lt-15, with an upgrade to an 18hp diesel engine... I've acquired three extensions, which allow me to cut out to right at 31'. Resale value of mills rode hard and put up wet can be 75% of new (and I've seen some 20 year old mills going for what the owner paid for them).

Pay by the hour or by the board foot, depends on the job and the wood. I cut one curved log that came out of my grandparents ancient oak that blew down last month... got three large mantles out of it, in about ten minutes work.

If your paying someone, and you want large beams, by the hour is the way to go, as it doesn't take long to do a 'beam', and it may have over a hundred board feet of lumber in it... and they could cut a lot of these in an hour.

I figure I have 10K in it all together. I've cut lumber that'd cost me at least 2K if bought in the stores, for the regular dimensional lumber... more than that for the beams. A 12"x12"x17' beam is pricey... basically unobtainable at Lowes/HD or any retail outlet.