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Guard Animals Guarding the homestead


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  #21  
Old 01/04/17, 09:50 PM
nobody
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnbilder View Post
I picked up on the growling thing. I've had "hard" dogs before. That is one of my pet peeves. I'm not going to tolerate being growled at, certainly not when it is my own dog, on my own place. I feel like this guy misread a lot of clear warning signs leading up to this event. I see people treat these things like they are just livestock or something. Get one or two, dump them in a pen with a few goats, if they have puppies, great, cash jackpot. Working parents. One perfect storm away from a really bad situation.
I can see that too.
Not knowing everything, I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Having said he immediately recognized his mistakes, leads me to believe he would know the difference between right and wrong.
I've also known a few incidents where a moment of distraction and unexpected instigation resulted in a bad outcome.

That's why the firearm analogy.
Guns aren't for everybody and anybody that has one (or a guard dog) needs to be attentive even IF "nothing ever happens".
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  #22  
Old 01/05/17, 12:43 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: California
Posts: 411
I have Australian Shepherds, and when two or more are together, they are empowered. My male and female together about killed a coyote, one working each end. My male is an a-hole with strange male dogs and I've seen my female jump in to back him up when he picked a fight in the past. Not something I'm happy about and control for when friends come over with their dogs. I see the Border Collie joining in to back up her partner.

Also, the "submissive" behavior with tail wagging was likely not that but active guarding of the piglet. Dogs will low wag and crouch when stimulated/conflicted/aroused. The growling along with that points towards the dog not behaving submissively but aroused and on the threshold of aggression. Why did these dogs perceive this "owner" that way? Very strange. The relationship seems not to have been there. I don't have LGDs, but my herding dogs are my partners and never challenge me, want to work for me. Something was very broken in the relationship between this man and his dogs.
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  #23  
Old 01/05/17, 11:20 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Michigan's thumb
Posts: 15,836
The consensus seems to be that this man did not know how to read his own dog. Many of us cannot read dog language. As Wistco mentioned, we are brought up to believe that a tail wag means a dog is happy, but it could mean several things. I know I was taught that a dog with his ears laid back will bite. In actuality, most dogs bite out of fear and a dog with his ears laid back is showing submission and/or fear. So, if you show aggression the dog may run from you, but it may bite in self defense. A dog with his ears proudly forward is showing confidence, and he may bite, too.

As for protecting the piglet, I didn’t think the dog was protecting the piglet from the hostility of the man. However, he may have been resource guarding. Still, he did not kill the piglet so the man misread the dog from the word "go".
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  #24  
Old 01/05/17, 08:10 PM
nobody
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
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There were definitely a few mistakes made and unfortunately the price paid by all was pretty high.
I read this 3 or 4 times now and pick up new details each time.
This time, I got the impression that the Anatolian was protecting the piglet more than looking at it as food, but we'll never know for sure.
If he WAS just doing his job and the owner scolded him with a "No", along with an accusatory and dissatisfied attitude, the resulting confusion by the dog is understandable.
Misreading body language and whatever history they may have had resulted in an accumulation of errors.
Attacking him was however, inexcusable.
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  #25  
Old 01/05/17, 09:43 PM
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Ooooops!
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  #26  
Old 01/09/17, 11:55 AM
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: NW OK
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I think the guy was clueless about his dogs. Tail wagging and growling is a sign of aggressiveness not submission.

If he was in control of the dog he wouldn't felt the need to call it away from the piglet, he would have simply went and got the pig.


PS

After thinking about it, I believe the tail wagging and growling is a challenging behavior.

I'm afraid some people used to dealing with smaller dogs aren't fully prepared for dealing with a larger, more independent minded dog.
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Last edited by Allen W; 01/09/17 at 01:48 PM.
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  #27  
Old 01/09/17, 01:05 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Michigan's thumb
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Dogs do growl as part of their language. They growl when they play fight. Some dogs bark as an invitation to play. Irish setters are noted for vast vocal expressions, as well as smiling (showing teeth). However, when taken into consideration the breed of dog, I agree that growling should be taken seriously. You don’t continue to provoke a growling dog.
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  #28  
Old 01/09/17, 11:26 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bel Aire, KS
Posts: 3,651
I've seen GP pups be truly aggressive with each other and with people they didn't know at 6 weeks of age! I refused to even consider getting those. I have one friend who had the best GP female he ever had. He didn't have to fence his property even though it was fenced. They just didn't fence the front acreage off so she stayed on the property and lived there for 9 years before dying of old age. They, then got, a male who grew into this truly gigantic GP male that would roam and he was aggressive with strangers be it dog/coyote/human. He was the only dog I've ever met that truly scared me. He was that big. My friend's uncle was taking care of the property while his sister (my friend's mom) was in France looking for antique jewelry/watches to buy cheap (apparently they're cheap in Europe because everyone has them so she buys them cheap then turns around and sells them for more money in America). One day, the uncle had to tell the dog to get back in the property and the dog reacted badly. Went crazy and bit the uncle so badly that he had to literally crawl back in the house and get a rifle and shoot the dog dead. The dog was maybe a year old. After that, I decided I didn't want to get a GP if at all!
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  #29  
Old 01/11/17, 01:37 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Wisconsin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen W View Post
I think the guy was clueless about his dogs. Tail wagging and growling is a sign of aggressiveness not submission.

If he was in control of the dog he wouldn't felt the need to call it away from the piglet, he would have simply went and got the pig.


PS

After thinking about it, I believe the tail wagging and growling is a challenging behavior.

I'm afraid some people used to dealing with smaller dogs aren't fully prepared for dealing with a larger, more independent minded dog.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TedH71 View Post
I've seen GP pups be truly aggressive with each other and with people they didn't know at 6 weeks of age! I refused to even consider getting those. I have one friend who had the best GP female he ever had. He didn't have to fence his property even though it was fenced. They just didn't fence the front acreage off so she stayed on the property and lived there for 9 years before dying of old age. They, then got, a male who grew into this truly gigantic GP male that would roam and he was aggressive with strangers be it dog/coyote/human. He was the only dog I've ever met that truly scared me. He was that big. My friend's uncle was taking care of the property while his sister (my friend's mom) was in France looking for antique jewelry/watches to buy cheap (apparently they're cheap in Europe because everyone has them so she buys them cheap then turns around and sells them for more money in America). One day, the uncle had to tell the dog to get back in the property and the dog reacted badly. Went crazy and bit the uncle so badly that he had to literally crawl back in the house and get a rifle and shoot the dog dead. The dog was maybe a year old. After that, I decided I didn't want to get a GP if at all!
Hmmm. I'm sure that dog was hard headed, but mistakes were made. The uncle had not bonded with that dog and established himself. He had no business giving commands. The young dog felt threatened and lashed out. Be honest if you can, if you know all the details. I'm betting he approached the dog and ordered it back on the property, maybe even tried to grab his collar. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN with my dog. Even my family, who have bonded with my dog and established themselves, know that they are to bribe my dog with hardboiled eggs and treats if she gets out, and if she shows no interest in that they are to follow and continue the bribery. And they're all willing to do that, or I wouldn't even leave my dog. And she's a big sweetheart, wouldn't bite unless she felt like my wife, myself, or herself were in imminent danger.

Just consider this. What you're saying about Great Pyrenees is a complete 180 from what the vast majority of people who own and/or work with Great Pyrenees say.
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  #30  
Old 01/13/17, 12:06 AM
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 144
The three100% GPs that I had were total people dogs. Always wanted attention. My Anatolian and my 5/8 Anatolian and 3/8 GP want nothing to do with people. They bark at them, but if people are in the feild, they move to the tree line. The GP of my friend is also a people dog.
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  #31  
Old Yesterday, 08:42 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,348
I have a large male GP, absolutely sweetest dog ever. He is a big love. Never one time have I had an issue with him in the 8 years I've had him. He is completely obedient, loves my grand kids, is good with my ranch dogs and my small house dog as well as my cats. He protects his chicken flock and my mini horses with no aggression toward either.
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