Mine doesn't put a show on. If someone approaches he does not like, he will wait till they are close then lunge....he does this only with men. He puts a show on for everyone else.

__________________
It's not that I don't like mankind, I just like nature a whole lot more.

Actually, Sam has taken down dogs that outweigh him by 50#s and had them by the throat (he had to be called off). Are you telling me he would back down to a human after taking down much larger dogs like this? I saw him get snapped on the nose by my DH's mean nephew, and Sam quickly had that kids arm in his jaws, didn't bite through the skin, but gave him a warning. He was about to leap at my DS's friend, when my DS told his friend to back off, and he called Sam "down." Also, does it sound like my dog is gutless to come sailing out of the back of a pickup, flat knock a 120# dog away from me. This was right next to the dog's owner, by two other men, and my husband included. Not only did I have to call him down, but I had to grab him by the collar to pull him away from the other dog. He has also faced off with coyotes, and we found the evidence of what he did to a few of them. Sam is an alpha, deceptively one. Here, I will put it in BOLD:

I do not, never have, and never will expect my dog to protect me. The fact he is a great watchdog is ALL I want from him. When danger presents itself, we are armed, and fully capable of defending him (assuming he wasn't shot already, so heading that off at the pass).

On our grandparents ranch, we had a number of dogs, all protective brave dogs who had to be very tough (some tangled with wolves...). All were taken hunting, too. They were relied upon to protect the sheep, goats, and cattle from predators. Grandpa was an ex LEO, who was very accurate with a firearm, so the dogs really only needed to alert him to danger. He had to occasionally deal with illegal hunting on his property and other trespassers.

Since there are dogs out there, who can be dangerous, folks would do well not to assume they will back down. I don't think that is good advice to give people (stating most will back down). Unless you know for sure, it is wise to assume a dog of any real size can do great harm. That all said, I believe you don't push your luck with any dog, but if push comes to shove, you fight with all your worth. I was taught as a child to cover my throat with one arm, kick with my dominant leg as hard and fast as I could, use my remaining fist, and anything else I could as a weapon (if I had a weapon to use). That saved me from a lunging vicious dog. Am I afraid of dogs? Of course not. If a dog was coming at me, I would either shoot it or use another weapon on it. I am never without something on my person...

__________________

Christie Acres

what is it about dogs being able to tell if somone is on drugs. I had a great aussie. loved everyone. nearly bit one guy putting up a carport because he tried to pet her, and she lets everyone pet her. he looked like he was a drugie.

our male pyr has only had issues with two people and one was a known druggie.

can they smell it? why don't they like the people do it?

Because any dog worth its salt can detect anything unusual about a person.

I always watch my dogs' reaction to people, from vet office to property visitors to nursing home. Their reactions range from downright friendly to 'hmm, you're interesting', to "get away from my mom".

Always trust your dog.

In His Love
Mich

There is a lot of difference in a dog attacking another animal and attacking a person.
Look at the number of dogs that washout from police dog training. These dogs, many selective bred for that purpose, are chosen specially for that type of work. Not a high % ever make the grade.

One piece of advice. Covering your throat with one hand while trying to stop a dog attack is asking for trouble. It will put you off balance and prevent you from manuvering like you will need to.
The majority of dog attacks do not go for the throat.

This reminded me of a funny story.

I am mutual friends with breeder A and B. Breeder A and I have both obtained working dogs from breeder B. Breeder B has passed on a few police and narcotics dogs to my friend when they dropped out of training for whatever reason.

When I was at my friends house, I commented on the pretty Shepherd that greeted me in her drive. She laughed and told me it was a failed narcotics dog and she has a great time watching it greet people in the drive...it always searches each car and immediately signaled to her if the visitor had illegal narcotics. She owns a vet clinic, huge kennel and horse farm, so she gets lots of visitors and the people have no idea the dog greeting them at their car is drug testing them

__________________
~Winter~Antonio Vivaldi - Concerto No.4 in F minor, Op.8, RV 297~

Our dog is a sweetie, most of the time. he will get between us and someone else even if he's just sitting there. He looks intimidating which is usually enough to put people off from approaching him, unless they ask specifically if they can. He also barks at anything walking past the back yard if he's outside. If someone walks up to the fence and puts their hands on it on top and pretends they are going to come over, he goes nuts (yes, we've tested him). He also doesn't like it when someone comes home later than expected and everyone else is home. He growled/approached my husband when he got home late and was wearing a different hat than normal. Hard to say if he'd actually attack a person if we were threatened but I'm not ruling it out completely. He will attack another dog if it is threatening us or him.

Dogs mostly go for throats in movies, more dramatic.

I will take my chances the dog is bluffing and take a more aggressive stance then the dog. Nearly every dog has been struck by something at least one is its life. Put your arm up like your going to hit it, yell as loud as you can and charge it. The dog will run 99% of the time. Most dogs are bullies that have learned somewhere that aggressive behavior can control some humans but fall apart when they are actually challenged.

Quote:

Does a family dog protect you from an attack or threat?

There are multiple posts on here supporting the fact many folks have great watchdogs! Those who bark are the best due to alerting their Owners to danger simply because that gives us the time to protect our dogs, critters, or ourselves. I don't believe in relying on only a dog as the alert system, however (dogs can be shot as some have also posted). On them attacking humans, some will. The biggest mistake some people make is assuming they know which ones will. Owners know their dogs better than strangers do.

__________________

Christie Acres

Can't really agree with the owner knowing the dog better than a stranger. The owner might have had the dog all of it's life but really know little about what the dog will and won't do under different circumstances or even about dogs in general.
Usually a person well experienced with dogs can tell quite a bit about the dog in just a couple of minutes.

There are breeds of dogs for a reason. Some are good at one thing but terrible at other things. A mixed breed is a toss up.
There are not many breeds that will attack a person, some that couldn't do any damage if they did, and a few that will attack and do damage.

Small dogs might want to attack but a grown person shouldn't have any trouble with any small dog. Some larger dogs are just not physically able to attack anything at all.

Any person with experience with attack dogs should be able to tell very quickly if a dog is likely to attack. They do not need to know the dog or even need to see it before hand. Most of the time just knowing the breed will tell you all you need to know.

Mostly I just consider my dogs as alarms, they do run off the coyotes and have had unknown people afraid to leave their vehicles. Now there was the incident when by 11 year old son got in a harmless fistfight with a friend and Ramsey when after that boy bad, be careful what you wish for.
Sometimes me and the wife have lighthearted wrestling match and the dogs get upset, they love their momma.

Attack dogs aggressively go after the threat, right? There are dogs who aren't trained attack dogs, who will defend their owners, and themselves. How does one know until that situation occurs? I can respectfully disagree that many Owners know their dog better than you will in just a few minutes. You may discern some thing those Owner's may not have experienced with their dogs, based on your experiences. They know a lot more about their dog's behaviors in the situations they have experienced. However, mixed breeds are challenging for anyone to predict, including their owners. It is mostly based on experience.

Since you think you know what my dog would do when he feels he is under attack by a human, I will share this experience with you. Sam is a Lab mix, with Chesapeake & ?. We clocked him running 35mph, which flat shocked us, have seen him do other things we didn't think he was capable of. When we first got him, I knew he had been abused. DH pointed out some of his reactions, especially flinching when DH pet him. As sweet as he was, obviously protective, I was flat shocked when this happened after we had him just a few months (neither of us saw this coming):

I had gone out into our backyard, to find Sam had gotten into our recycle bin, and spread the debris around. Since I was going out to water, and Sam wasn't in the backyard, I went out and watered my plants in the greenhouse. I saw DH's level left on the porch of my garden cabin, so I picked it up, and started walking across the backyard (on my way to return it to DH to put back in his shop...). I see Sam run around the corner and up to the debris, so with the level still in my hand, I walked over to him. I verbally disciplined him & told him NO about the recycle, without laying a hand on him (hadn't raised that level just had it at my side). Sam looked at me, first cowering, then his eyes rested on the level, and he SNAPPED! Sam leaped for me, jaw open to bite, and I quickly blocked him with the level. He went for me again, so I called out to DH, and hit him once with the level, to try to get him to back down. HE DIDN'T BACK DOWN! I was yelling NO, but Sam was out of control! The 3rd time he leaped for me, I hit him with the level again, grabbed his collar with my other hand, twisting it tight, as I then began pulling him towards the shop, yelling for DH to help me with him. DH comes out to physically TACKLE Sam, as he wrestled away from me, and lunged again (this time he scratched my arm with his teeth; close call). DH straddled Sam, restrained him, verbally told him NO, commanded him to STOP, and held him until he calmed down. That took at least 5 minutes! Here, I will interject I am only 5'5" tall, weigh 120#s, and I could not physically restrain Sam. Since I had a level, made of aluminum, in my hand, I was able to defend myself. Otherwise, I would have had to kick him. Also, using an arm to block with doesn't put me off balance, nor would delivering a hard kick with one leg. DH is 6' tall, large boned, and a very strong man (Machinist/Welder, lifts steel regularly, and can pick me up with one arm). He told me it took all of his strength to hold down Sam (!). Now after that incident?

Most who read that would tell me I should have put our Sam down, others would say we were foolish to keep him, and others would say he should be considered a danger to others. Well, we had a serious discussion the night of that incident, committed to keep him, work with him, and train him. I spoke with a local dog trainer and also with other dog owners. That was a singular experience, however, I believe Sam would still not hesitate to defend himself if he felt he was being attacked by a human. But I really don't know if he would attack a human to defend me, but has shown he won't hesitate to attack another dog. The only other experience? I entered the shop shortly after DH had made a mistake on a project, and he was angry about it. Sam was walking along side me... DH was fuming, verbally venting, but a bit loud, not at me, but Sam seemed to think it was directed at me. He began snarling and baring his teeth at DH! I bent down and told Sam calmly that it was okay, and his demeanor changed instantly. That was just a few months ago.

The aggressive behavior towards me was (3) years ago, and there has never been a repeat performance like that. He has never been abused by us, and has learned to trust us. As a safety precaution, we do not allow Sam to be alone with children. He is on a leash in public, but has never acted aggressively towards any children or adults (just that one time he grabbed DH's nephew's forearm in his jaws after the kid snapped him in the nose with a rubber band, a full 2 years ago). I believe if he ever considers himself in danger, he will defend himself. I have no idea how far he would go in defending DH or myself. That only experience I had was seeing that dog fly out of a truck and knock another dog away from me. Knowing he will bark when any animal or person enters our property is all we need him to do.

On discerning typical behavior from certain breeds, I'd also agree that is mostly true, however I've seen a number of exceptions. Take Black Labs for example. Are all the purebreds fast? Do they all love to swim? Do they all retrieve? Are they all protective? Are they all even tempered? Are they calm? Are they hyper? All the purebred Labs I've seen locally have their own unique personalities, some hyper, some not, some mellow, some protective, some not, some love swimming, some don't swim, some retrieve, and some don't, some bark a lot, some don't bark much, and Remington is one of the coolest local purebred Black Labs. This dog is over 100#s, very affectionate, is a great watchdog, loves to swim, mellow personality (deceptive Alpha), will retrieve, but I don't think he would defend himself against a human. I believe he would back down. However, I would never count on it.

__________________

Christie Acres

SOME dogs will, most dogs won't and many people have unrealistic expectations which are colored by their affection &/or misinterpretations. I don't believe that breed alone will tell you if a dog will or won't protect you, because there are sports in every breed.
but like any job, the only way to truly KNOW (not just think, believe or hope) is for the dog to have actually done it before.
and yes there are dogs that will take it right to a 200# wildboar or a 300# bear, get cut up or broken bones and NEVER back off, then they'll turn tail and leave the owner hanging in a confrontation w/ people.
OTH i know some very gutsy guys that will walk right into a gunfight that won't get within ten yards of even small dogs.

Good points, Pops2, funny comment about the gutsy guys. When I was in College, I was incredibly embarrassed when the Professor went through our test results, then held up mine, asking, "WHO is Lori?" Very embarrassed, I raised my hand. He went on to tell me that he had never seen those results before, that I was a "wild card", and that no one really ever knew me well, no one could tell what I would/could do, and wouldn't be able to figure me out. The Professor was correct and all my their ongoing testing proved that. Now, if we humans can be like that, why not dogs?!

See any big strong guys freak out over a bee? How about little gals jumping in to save people who are drowning while bigger more physically capable people stand there without acting?! I don't panic during emergencies, but DH hesitates a bit in deciding what do to. You have us both there during an emergency? I tell him what to do! Then that man acts fast... No rhyme nor reason to figure it out, just the way it can go.

__________________

Christie Acres

Interesting thread.
We've always owned guardian breeds and I do think our dogs would protect us,
but unless one has tested their dogs or they got attacked somehow and their dogs saved them, I don't think you can ever be absolutely certain of it.

A good 14-15 years ago, one of my relatives had a very dominant and confident Kuvasz puppy. All in all very difficult to handle pup.
When that puppy was 6 months, one of their friends came over unannounced and entered their yard.
The Kuvasz puppy immediately charged the grown man (probably 6 ft tall) and completely ripped apart his jacket sleeve. I was there that day and I saw it.
I've never seen a puppy act that way before or after that incident.


If someone is looking for a protection dog and has the experience to handle one, but not the money to buy a fully trained personal protection dog; then I would say the safest bet would be to buy a dog of a breed that was bred for guarding, from stable parents with good nerves who are actively guarding their family and property. And of course from a good breeder who knows his/hers dogs and can help you pick out the right puppy.

the bee thing reminded me, i used to have to threaten my Marines w/ a butt whipping if they didn't stop swatting at the bees & wasps.
younger daughter handles emergencies better than my wife. so yeah, never know until the SHTF and then you find out.

Romy probably won't mind...

You are blessed, Pops2! That was also funny about the Marines, just goes to show... Yes, one never knows until SHTF!

DS? He has big blue eyes, is very polite, has a deep voice, is big boned, and is a little over 6'2" tall. Animals just love him and most folks just see a polite, kind, well spoken, and interesting young man (with a great sense of humor). If I could pick one guy to have with me in an emergency, it would be DS! It has nothing to do with how strong he is, but has everything to do with how fast he thinks, acts, and responds in an emergency. He is also a "wild card," Our dog, Sam, absolutely adores DS, too.

__________________

Christie Acres

We had several dogs. Some were good at protecting some were useless. But my most favorite protective dog is one my dad had a couple of years before he met my mom. When I came along he was already about 6 years old. Half rat terrier half old english bulldog. Named Bulldog of course.
I mom didn't much care for him but I remember when I was growing up anybody acted like they were gonna hurt me or my dad he would come unglued, anybody made a move towards my mom he would turn his back and walk off. Lol, oh, those 2 didn't care for each other at all. They tolerated each other. He passed when I was 9 so he was about 15 years old. Of all the dogs i've had I miss him the most. Even after all this time.

I just learned something here...Pancho, you're OLD!!! (kidding, kidding just had to mess with ya!)

__________________
I dream of a better world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.

I began taking pets protective quality more seriously while laughing til I teared up. I was just a young bride expecting my first baby, my pet was a toy pomeranian, Sabre . A friend of my hubbys from work dropped by. The dog had not met the guy. He came towards me to offer congrads and a hug. In a flash my tiny dog grabbed his ankle and held on for dear life swinging his body around. The guy himself laughed so hard. I have seen over the years amazing loyalty and yes a protective quality in every dog we have had. It is the Mom that was in charge of each of their training...I cant explain it other than they just loved their little Mom like my kids do. Lol I would not expect a dog to protect me from harm but hey, they would make me happy just to alert us which they do and more.

My Sons Aussie mix that attacks on on command only weighs about 60 lbs and can take a grown man right off his feet. My son had a friend who wanted a demonstration because he did not believe my son. Axial is so sweet and gentle. We just put a heavy jacket on his friend, my son counted 1, 2, 3, attack Axil. The guy was knocked down with his mid air leap and attached his jaw to his well padded arm. One yell of Stop and he did. We have no reason not to think he would be protective as he has shown us. We would never want a pet to sacrifice their life for us but barking, growling etc can prevent a lot of things from happening. Most intruders will not intentionally take on multiple dogs. They can't see through the door or control the chaos of a multiple dog threat. I figure most are swayed by one dog. It depends on the threat and the location I imagine.

__________________
Thank you kindly,

Romy "Island Girl"
[URL="http://www.romysrealm.blogspot.com"]

I am beginning to feel it also.
Sometimes I get to thinking everyone I know looks so old. Then I look in the mirror.

A leap in the air when attacking is a very bad habit for a dog to get into. That is the easiest to protect yourself from. A good attack dog will remain on the ground, at least with their back feet. Any time you see a dog that leaps into the air while attacking you can be sure they do not know what they are doing.
If the dog is expected to be an atttack dog it would be better to teach it how to survive the first real attack.

I have a GSD, he can be down right mean to either animal or human. He has gone after the mailman, who maced him. Donnie yelped, backed off and went right back after him. Yikes, that was my first experince with how mean he can be. Then, I had a neighbor try to walk up the driveway. He made it halfway before Donnie had him stopped in his tracks screaming for me to call the dog off. This is the second GSD I have had and he is by far the most protective. The first GSD was an american breed dog that was more bark than bite. Donnie's parents and their parents were all from Germany, shutzhund trained and you can tell the difference both in size and demeanor. If you are around me it's in your best interest to not raise your voice and be nice otherwise Donnie is going to start coming unglued. I pity the poor fool that tries to come in the house uninvited, first he'll be attacked by the dog then he'll be shot. The bad guy will have a bad last day. The neighbors are all scared of him but love the fact that the neighborhood thugs don't hang around causing trouble anymore.

Axil leaps up from where he is at the time he is told or at the location of where he is told. Let him get close and he rears up and goes for the face or neck while standing on his rear legs. If the person is sitting down he goes for an arm not the face. We did not want him to do that to the friend so we let our son do it while Axil was a little distance away and not close to his friend. My other two dogs went for the legs while Axil went to knock the friend down which caused them to laugh as they are just 20 lbs each. So they stick together as most packs do. I have no intention of training attack dogs but my sons dog will pretty much do whatever he is told...a smarter dog we have not had. My son trained his own dog this time not me. You point and he goes there, he follows all hand signals. He gets attention wherever he goes and is absolutely obedient on a leash, you do not even know you have a dog on there. With my grandson being only 3, I want a very smart dog who is not aggressive. Axil is not an aggressive dog at all. He is a lap dog for my son...super cuddly. No one meeting that gentle guy would expect him to be any different. He is very deceptive and that is how we like it, kind of like my younger son.....gentle and so well mannered, tender to all women but do not cross.

__________________
Thank you kindly,

Romy "Island Girl"
[URL="http://www.romysrealm.blogspot.com"]

Romysbaskets, this post really brings out a point I want to make. It is just my opinion. Pancho, I have utmost respect for your experience with dogs. It seems to me that there is a big difference between a trained attack or guard dog, and a dog that is a constant companion and trusted friend. The dogs I have known were all mutts. They were mine and our constant companions. They were never so much trained as grew to learn how to act and respond to our/my commands or, sometimes, mere wants. In the few times I saw them respond violently to a human, they did so with a whole hearted desire to take that person out. At all other times they were just a normal, silly, run of the mill dog. I'll give an example: As kids we had a dog named Louie. He had some sheep dog in him, but was just a hairy mutt. Louie went everywhere us kids went, and usually even slept by my bed. He followed us to the bus stop, and when the time came went and waited on the bus to come back. Louie was a friend to all. One day my sister and I rode out bikes to the store. As we were coming up to the store, a man came out of the door right in my sister's path. To avoid a collision, and to keep my sister from falling over, he spun around, straddling the front tire of her bike, and grabbed her handle bars. By the time i could get him under control, just a matter of seconds, Louie dang near ate him alive. That was one of the times we paid a doctor's bill. I have no doubt that that dog would have fought that man to the death. The man was actually very understanding, and realized what had happened and why. These dogs were my friends and companions and I just think there is a difference. We also raised and trained bird dogs. Two different things.

__________________
Vicker
If you're born to hang, you'll never drown.

Vicker, excellent points made! Makes more sense to me, looking at your perspective. I absolutely agree, too. We had a vehicle come down our driveway while my DH was gone today. Our sweet harmless looking Sam, turned into the vicious looking guard dog, become far more aggressive than he usually is when vehicles come down our driveway. I observed, but didn't leave our home, just watched. The vehicle slowed, Sam went berserk, and they drove away without stopping. I figure they were lost, but they may have been casing our place. I do not approach a strange car on our property. Even if I was armed, I don't do it. Who knows if they are armed, too? Sam stood at the top of our driveway, barking and baring his teeth until they were gone. Then, he came back to our front door, wagging his tail, and I praised him like I always do when he does his job. Here is yet another great example of a "mutt" who isn't formally trained, who is an excellent watchdog. He is also highly intelligent! He is NOT a bird dog, LOL, here's one for you...

It was late at night, there was a whimpering sound, and also a baby bird chirping. I got up to investigate, but was unprepared what would meet my gaze through that window. There, sitting on his haunches, was Sam, and he was whimpering. I went out the front door to see if he was okay. As I approached, Sam looked up at me, and there I see a tiny baby Chickadee on the ground, in between Sam's paws. Neither paw was touching this tiny bird, but he was guarding it (!!!). The whimpering was to summon me. When I bent down, Sam began wagging his tail, and looked very happy when I picked up the baby bird. When I examined the bird, I could see there was no sign of physical damage, probably fell out of the nest. It was close to flying, but not quite. I took the bird inside, placed it in a box w/water, then went to bed. After taking care of the bird for a few days, I could see he was now ready to be released. With Sam standing right there, I let the bird go. He flew a bit, then scampered under our front deck. He lived there for a few more days before he flew away. His steady companion and guard? Sam!

Our chickens have no fear of Sam, will drink out of his water bowl, and some have tried to eat his food (he doesn't hurt them, but pushes them away). I have never seen him bark or growl at the chickens. I missed my Kodak moment...DH came in to tell me he saw a chicken standing on Sam.

__________________

Christie Acres

Please know what I meant about the bird dogs. they were all pure bred and wonderful, working dogs. They did what we "trained" them to do with little real training. It was bred into them. Some were excellent, and some not worth a dime. But, they were not companions, and we did not have the same relationship with them as what we had with the mutts.

__________________
Vicker
If you're born to hang, you'll never drown.

Balaam's donkey-- Numbers 23
Animals can see things hanging on or around people that we cannot see. They can't speak about it like the donkey in the story did, but they can all see into the spiritual world.

__________________
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

What is it about the LGDs when they stand in front of you, stick out their chest and widen their stance and snarl or growl at any perceived threat? I have one that is determined to protect us, but she worries about more things than she needs to. It's a lot worse when we are at home than it is when we take her somewhere. If we take her into public, she is docile, will walk with us, and act friendly to strange animals or people 90% of the time, unless she feels another dog or human is a threat. But at home, she will block your way, puff herself out and growl at anything she thinks might get near you.
Is that a protective action or just territoriality?

__________________
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Some dogs have a resource guarding instinct. I have a Doberman that has quite a bit of this instinct. She will focus on an item and try to protect it if she knows I allow it or approve of it. She had to be taught as a puppy, that guarding me in bed and snapping at the other dogs was not allowed, she would bark at them and then plop her body on top of me. Now she is fine in bed, but will still try to lay on me and give the evil eye to the other dogs once in a while.

If a stranger or animal tries to walk to the house, she will continually throw herself in between the person and the house. Currently she is having a lot of fun guarding her daily egg treats from the chickens who try to sneak in and eat them while she is munching on them. She will lay the egg on the grass and circle it while staring them down. She also likes to circle my small dog when the rooster is near in order to protect the small dog from any possible rooster attacks.

I think this is something that needs to be properly controlled from puppyhood, otherwise I would imagine it can probably turn into food aggression and toy aggression with other dogs and people.

__________________
~Winter~Antonio Vivaldi - Concerto No.4 in F minor, Op.8, RV 297~