Help with finding a shot deer???
 

As suggested by another HT member, I am posting my experience for others and myself to learn from. We all know mistakes are made, so lets keep this helpful for all.

Had a deer present itself at about 75 yards broadside. The brush was high on the deer's body but I thought a high shoulder shot... should be a kill shot. ( maybe first mistake?) Would not have taken it if I felt it wasn't.

Deer jumped up like a bronco with all legs in the air and the body drawn up. Ran for 20 yards and disappeared.

Waited for 20 mins and went looking where I saw him last.(by 5:15 it was after sunset) 25 mins after the shot I found where I saw him last and found a good blood trail. Followed it til I came to this:

Followed the trail more and thought about stopping and waiting til morning. A doe came over the hill then and it was pretty dark. Saw it was a doe and eventually it moved on with several other deer, but too dark to tell what. Walked to the top of the rise where I saw the doe and stopped. Blood trail had thinned out a lot.

Next morning went back and about 10 yards or less found what looked like where the deer laid down (smeared blood). Did circles around this spot to find more blood and found one pencil eraser sized drop about 4 feet away. ( I have helped a friend, once, track a deer with this size blood drops for more than an hour... but that's my tracking experience) DH tried to help but is color blind(not much help)

We searched in every direction for the next 3 hours, circling and walking creek bottoms and 100's of yards in different directions through heavy wooded ground.

So let's start the discussion on what to do next time... I was heartsick that I couldn't find this one (my first ever not found in my seven years hunting)

Dark rich blood indicates arterial blood so there's a good chance you didn't connect to the lungs. A shoulder shot is almost always fatal unless he was quartered to or away to some degree and you only got one shoulder.The reaction of the deer when you shot said "dead deer' I've never failed to recover after seeing that jump and kick thing that they do.
I always give a deer 1/2 to 1 hour before tracking but with the indicators you had I think you should have been OK.What I do is "stalk" the blood trail. Many times you can come upon the bedded deer and finish the job or while you are on the blood trail get the chance at another deer. This happens to me a lot. This year opening day as a matter of fact. I understand it was dark but staying silent could have allowed you to get to see him bedded and in the dark if he was not head down I would have backed out and give him time to bleed out or at least stiffen up.
Two things to keep in mind. An injured animal will almost always try to go back to where they came from because it was "safe" at that time. If you know which way he came from you may be able to at least find him and see just what went on between him and the projectile. Next deer spooked or injured will most likely use an established trail as an escape route. It's the path of least resistance and they are familiar with it.

Punching through brush is sometimes a risky shot but you rarely get a perfect shot so it's just a judgement call.Only you know how you feel about taking that shot. I would have likely done the same thing.Same thing with the distance. You know your capabilities. That's not a long shot for someone that is experienced with firearms but did "buck fever' creep in? I've had it happen to me on a doe that was so bad it took me three times trying to stand up I was shaking so bad. Everyone experiences it sometime.And of course the weapon you were using plays a role in determining how far out you should be shooting.

I don't see much i would have done different. The biggest thing I see is giving them enough time to lay there and bleed out.I stuck a doe once and new I had hit her high so waited an hour to start tracking. The blood trail was a foot wide.I ended up kicking her out of the bed and backed off till morning and trailed her out to a dead end. Never did recover her. The bed must have had a gallon of blood in it. It was a five foot circle of nothing but blood. Sometimes stuff just happens.

I wish I could tell you how to find this but there is a documented case of a deer being shot on a military base in VA. The guy didn't give it enough time to bleed out and ended up kicking it up. With help from the military they tracked the deer and recovered in on a different military base. The blood trail was 8.7 MILES !

Wade

Okay.. I will try to respond in colors. [/COLOR]Dark rich blood indicates arterial blood so there's a good chance you didn't connect to the lungs. A shoulder shot is almost always fatal unless he was quartered to or away to some degree and you only got one shoulder.The reaction of the deer when you shot said "dead deer' I've never failed to recover after seeing that jump and kick thing that they do.
The deer was definitely broadside. One son thought it was a liver shot and I guess it could have been. I was shaking pretty bad.


I always give a deer 1/2 to 1 hour before tracking but with the indicators you had I think you should have been OK.What I do is "stalk" the blood trail. Many times you can come upon the bedded deer and finish the job or while you are on the blood trail get the chance at another deer. This happens to me a lot. This year opening day as a matter of fact. I understand it was dark but staying silent could have allowed you to get to see him bedded and in the dark if he was not head down I would have backed out and give him time to bleed out or at least stiffen up.

I was trying NOT to come on it bedded. I stopped and almost left several times, then the doe came over the ridge and I thought it was this buck (yes it was a nice one) She stayed forever and then flagged and went on, along with several others. I then figured if the injured deer was near it went off with them. Walked to where the doe was and stopped all tracking til morning.


Two things to keep in mind. An injured animal will almost always try to go back to where they came from because it was "safe" at that time. If you know which way he came from you may be able to at least find him and see just what went on between him and the projectile. Next deer spooked or injured will most likely use an established trail as an escape route. It's the path of least resistance and they are familiar with it.

Punching through brush is sometimes a risky shot but you rarely get a perfect shot so it's just a judgement call.Only you know how you feel about taking that shot. I would have likely done the same thing.Same thing with the distance. You know your capabilities. That's not a long shot for someone that is experienced with firearms but did "buck fever' creep in? I've had it happen to me on a doe that was so bad it took me three times trying to stand up I was shaking so bad. Everyone experiences it sometime.And of course the weapon you were using plays a role in determining how far out you should be shooting.

I was shooting a Remington model 700 .243 my Dad gave me when I first started hunting. And yes, "buck fever" probably played a role, as it was the biggest deer I ever shot at, although probably not the biggest I have seen (passed on a quartering away shot my first tow or three on a big buck I didn't think would be a clean kill). Still thought it would be a good kill shot though, not a pot luck one.

I don't see much i would have done different. The biggest thing I see is giving them enough time to lay there and bleed out.I stuck a doe once and new I had hit her high so waited an hour to start tracking. The blood trail was a foot wide.I ended up kicking her out of the bed and backed off till morning and trailed her out to a dead end. Never did recover her. The bed must have had a gallon of blood in it. It was a five foot circle of nothing but blood. Sometimes stuff just happens.

Quartering away is by far my prefered presentation.There are so much of the vitals exposed.A broadside shot it the best for a nice double lunger but other than that it can be risky. I lost a nice buck 6 years ago because i only took out one lung. Found him days later and understood why he escaped the freezer.
I think you " done good". Sometimes "stuff" just happens !
When you get some time walk back over where you think he might have gone. Seeing exactly what happened will help you out in the future.

Wade

Thanks for the positive encouragement. I really did think I had a good shot and would find him where I last saw him. Dang'd deer are really resilient!!! Here's what I shot a week and 1/2 later and my sons think it might have been him. I don't think that blood blowout I posted would have come from a grazing shot on a front leg, like this deer had. About the size of a quarter on the outside front leg... I'll get a picture of the skin tomorrow. Do you think that came from a front leg above the joint hit?

I've done quartering away and quartering to shots since that first Big Buck look I passed on several years ago and have taken them all with shots through the lungs/heart. I'm not saying I'm the best shot, but give me a quick presentation at close range (20 to 40 yards) and I haven't missed yet. (knock on wood) ... this one was just more of a challenge I guess, although I didn't think so at the time.

Maybe he's still walking around somewhere, but I don't think so... at least the coyotes, foxes, bears and others will get a meal out of my losses.

Was that blood from where he was when you shot him on in the bed or on the blood trail?Just a guess but I'd rather think than would be from the neck or high on the back.If you meant to post a pix it didn't show up.Also, over time you will realize that for some reason bucks are a lot harder to put down and keep down.

Wade

It happens , you do your best practice more , always make sure to sight in before season if groups are just as you want them your good to go hunt

like my grandpa says ," coyote got to eat to"

243 is a capable round on white tail , bullet selection can make some difference most prefer the 90, 95 or 100 gr for deer

a Colman propane lantern is the best thing for looking for blood int eh dark , they sell "blood tracking lights" my cousins bought a few different ones and I have talked to others who have bought them none like them and have all gone back to the Colman lantern



I mark the blood trail , and I keep marking the trail every little ways a role of the fluorescent tape can be helpful with this often if I can see the direction from the trail even if I loose the trail

It has been my experience that gun shot deer that go farther than 2-300 yards of blood trail are not shot well this happens , people flinch , they shake , twigs get in the way , shots are rushed

you practice in the off season and get better at the kind of shot you missed or made poorly so your better next time

75 yards is not a long shot especially with a 243

If I had to guess I would figure you hit it just a little to far back they bleed but they go a long ways , then just stop bleeding some times

Wade: That blood was from on the trail. He was bleeding really well then had the blowout of blood I pictured, then more good blood trail. The blood trail thinned and I stopped for the night. I probably went 100 yds(could be more or less, but you get the idea) on good blood. Went back the next morning and started again where I left my hat on the last blood and about 20/30 feet later found a smeared blood spot that looked like he laid down. Only one little drop of blood could be found after that. My Dad said he probably clotted and that was it.

Pete: My gun was sighted in before the season. Learned that lesson, before. I'm shooting 80 grain soft points. What Dad gave me along with the gun. Yes, I was shaking. Had a tree to lean against, but I think part of my problem, was that I had too much time to think about it. My first shot, I didn't have a shell chambered. (yeah BIG mistake. It's safe to get into the tree stand without one chambered for both me and the deer... hahahah) Had to load a shell with him standing there looking my direction.

Here is what he looked like. This is the one I got 10 days later. He had been injured on his front leg, but just a grazing shot. I don't think it was the same deer.

I know I need to practice more, and now that I have a .22 I expect to go squirrel hunting this winter and get more practice with sighting and shooting. Not exactly the same as deer, but I have heard it will help.

Pete's point about the Coleman lantern is a very good one, they can make a world of difference.

Another old Indian trick is to keep Hydrogen Peroxide in a spritzer bottle. Is that blood, or is that just a spot on that leaf? A shot of Peroxide will bring the blood, even dried blood, to a boil.

I also recommend a Coleman 2 mantel gas lantern. Better than any light that I have seen that is hand held.

:D Al

I think a .243 with 80 gr is about the bottom end for deer - my grandsons starting hunting and they used a .243 but they did hit a couple deer and never got them - me I'd use something a little heavier - like a .270 maybe - at least use a heavier bullet with the .243 -

If you hit a deer and it takes off - I would trail it for only a short distance - if it keeps going I would wait for any hour or more or come back in the morning - the deer will want to hide and lay down somewhere - my following it you will only it kick up and it will run further - I know how you feel -

The blood you posted wasn't a liver shot. Liver blood is almost black . The 243 is a great deer rifle for a seasoned hunter but I still prefer a 30 cal rifle with 150 gr or heavier bullets

I love my 243 with hand loaded 85gr.HPBT Sierra game king bullets. Shot placement in the vitals and the deer drop in their tracks.

I likes the 260 6.5 MM Remington also but I feel the ammo is to expensive to buy for them when a 7MM 08 is just dandy for recoil sensitive persons.

Even with a 105 MM cannon if you don't hit them in a vital area they are going to run off.

:D Al

I understand that a gun given by a loved-one is special...but I am with kycrawler on this.

You can certainly kill deer with the .243, but at the very least, use a 100gr Corelokt or similar.

Personally, I believe a 308 with a good 150 or 165gr bullet will serve the average deer hunter better, especially on large deer like in your picture!

The debate on the 243 for deer has raged for decades. I believe it is more suited for an expert, who can really pick their shots, not us regular folks.

haha...just because you can do it, doesn't mean the rest of us can! :D

In my area there are some seasoned hunters, and a group who train search dogs, who are happy to help someone who knows the deer is hit soundly but not found. The man who taught my safety course was one such; he gave out his number at the end of the course.

Thanks for the info on the Coleman lantern. Since I tend to hunt mostly evening, this may come in handy sometime in the future.

Thanks also for the thoughts on gun and bullet choice. Up until this deer, I have put them down in 50 yds or less. Shot placement does count. The deer pictured was taken with the same gun at 20ish yards and ran less than 50 yds. A heart shot does do that.

Things I have learned:

Make sure you have a good shot. (thought I did)

Wait to track no matter how big the deer is and stop EARLY in the tracking (no matter how little sleep you'll get that night)

Use a coleman lantern after dark.

Hydrogen peroxide can help in determining blood from other "stuff" when tracking.

Consider a bigger grain bullet or larger caliber rifle. (most of my deer have been taken with my .50 caliber muzzleloader during the muzzleloader season)

Thanks all!!! Keep the ideas coming. You're never too old or seasoned to learn something.

My guess is that the bullet hit a branch and deflected a bit. Then it passed through broadside below the spine and above the lungs. A deer hit like this will bleed somewhat, but then sometimes recover. Otherwise, if it was a lung shot, I would think for sure you would have found it unless it hid itself really well. But if the deer recovers, you won't ever find it.

A side note on the peroxide, but an important one, keep it in a dark bottle. Light degrades it. If you put it in a clear or opaque spritzer simply wrap it with black tape.

I think the biggest thing, and the hardest to do is to "wait" for the deer to die. Talking with bow hunting friends, they'll often sit still for up to 60 minutes after arrowing one. Unlike many folks on the internet, I've had exactly 4 deer out of about 50 drop in their tracks. I go fo heart lung shots, every one of mine hit correctly runs a bit, some further than others. The 4 I've had DRT, were botched shots that hit spine, and a back of the head on a bedded buck that offered no other target.

I have a heck of a time waiting.....

Last year I hit a buck properly watched him run and stand in the brush, lick his wound and walk a bit for finally falling over after about 25 minutes. His lungs were shot when I dressed him out. Four years ago I shot one, he jumped walked about 30 yards, and milled about. I could tell he was well hit. He laid down and put his head down, I climbed down from my stand and went over to him. Overconfident, I did not even bother to chamber another round. Imagine my surprise when I got within 10 yards, and he jumped up and ran off. After searching 3 hrs that night, I found him the next day 60 yards away in the brush.

Pictured is the buck I shot WED at a little over 300 yards (lasered) in western KS. At the strike he jumped and ran into some heavy CRP grass, I waited about 20 minutes and tracked him. When I got to him, he jumped up and ran, so I took a shot and hit him in the hind quarter bringing him down. By the time I got there, he bled out from the 1st shot. Had I waited longer I wouldn't have wasted some good meat. The buck was dead, just didn't know it yet.

In my experience deer generally, unless spoked, don't know they've been shot, so they tend not to go far unless you pursue. Unfortunately every time I've rushed things, it ended up being more of a PITA than if I'd exercised some "tactical patience" and let it play out.

Chuck

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a5/...ps14c2dbcd.jpg

Yeah that is a good point. With a bow, I will wait 30 minutes, no matter what. If you move in too fast, you can push the deer a long way off. For a gut shot, I allow at least 8 hours before pursuing. The OP gave the deer 20 minutes. Maybe that extra 10 minutes would have made a difference, maybe not. It is possible that the deer may have just died where it seemingly first laid down and left the large amount of blood. At any rate, waiting at least 30 minutes is a good idea.

On the other hand, from the ground level you may put a shot above the lungs and below the spine and the deer recovers. Happened to me (bow) and I waited over an hour. Searched and searched and then searched again the next day with a search party. No luck - I truly believe the deer recovered. And I have read of verified cases of this happening to others.

Add one more thing to this list - A roll of surveyors ribbon doesn't weigh much in your pack and goes a long way to keeping you on blood.

Just a couple of comments about tracking...

Try to look for more than just blood drops on the ground. Think about which side of the deer is the blood coming from? One side or both? The entry wound or exit wound? Is there spray pattern on grass on the side of the trail, not just drops on the ground? If it goes through thick brush, are there blood smears on the underside of vegetation that's not quickly seen?

Watch for hoof prints and antler prints. When it is a heavily used trail, that can be tough. But sometimes you can track just one deer for a ways and understand a bit more about it.

When deer reach the end and run out of blood and oomph, they will go downhill, toward water and seek seclusion. They will make j turns to watch their back trail. It isn't easy, sometimes its step by step.

Even though you've gone on, if it hasn't rained or snowed, I'd suggest going out and seeing if you can solve the puzzle. It will help you for next time. Watch for crows/raven or vultures. Listen for yotes( you might have a chance at a fur while you are at it).

I was talking to a guy who got a buck , when they butchered it they found the broadhead , but they shot it with a rifle , they were going to take the broad head to the neighbor and ask is it was theirs from the buck they shot during archery season and never found , haven't heard if it was his yet


I shot a doe with a bow once , hit what would have been a perfect gun shot , but a bad arrow shot right in the front shoulder , I watched it run off with that arrow sticking out , it went 300 yards with a decent blood trail and laid down I found my aluminum arrow there where it had laid down , with bite marks where she bit and pulled it out , that was the last blood I found

I once shot a doe broadside at 12 yards with my bow.She was looking at me at full draw.I released and watched the arrow hit her perfect,a double lunger. I thought "I don't havre to worry about recovering that one".Wrong! I found one drop of blood and that was it. After a long search I found her. She had crawled back into the middle of a blackberry patch and died. The only way I found her was seeing white.
When I dressed her the arrow went in the left lung perfectly but exited the middle of her belly! She had jumped string on me. The bow was perfectly quiet. Her reaction was to the arrow released. Afterward I shot my bow through the chrony. I don't remember the figures now but she had reacted to the shot in 1/12 second. Humans takes at least 3/4 reaction time. Animals are just amazing!

Wade

A tip I will add:

Trust yourself and what you saw in the sights when you pulled the trigger.

Last year, I shot an 8 point, saw the hit, watched him stumble forward, get up, and run off to my right. I sat in the blind 15 minutes or so and got out to go find him.

As I was just straightening myself up, I heard rustling coming from my right, and watched the deer I shot come right back out to the same spot and stand there looking at my blind. I didn't see blood where I'd hit him, so I leveled down and shot again. This time, I hit a small tree right in front of him (saw the bark explode, no bullet out the other side), and he ran down the hill straight away from me.

I spent that evening and the next morning looking down the hill for him. Even took the wife out with me for an extra set of eyes. I was really upset that I had wounded a buck and couldn't find him.

On the way back up to the house, about 30 yards north (RIGHT) of my blind, there lay the deer I shot with a solid hit in the boiler-room.

I had two essentially identical deer come out in front of my blind, the second within 15 minutes of a rifle shot, and I failed to trust myself and the hit I SAW on the first one I shot. When I saw the second deer, I assumed that I had missed the first one - which I knew just wasn't true.

I didn't bother to look for blood to the right, since I knew that I seen the "same" deer run a different direction. If I hadn't just happened to come back up the hill where I did, I never would have found that deer I killed.

Hi Froebeli -
Trailing a deer or other game animal isn't usually a lot of fun. If you follow a good hunter' code of ethics, as I'm sure you do, of making a clean kill whenever possible and especially at the last hour or less of the day. Dragging one out of the bush in the dark gets old fast.

I have to concur with one poster about the bullet weight you said you were using. For our little whitetails out here in West Texas, unless you're on a trophy ranch, the 80 grain slug has plenty of knock down power. It’s what I bagged my first one with. (My favorite rifle today is my .225 Winchester M70.) But, if you're hunting in Virginia y'all's deer are like horses compared to ours, especially coming out of droughty conditions as we are. A 175 to 185 pound buck is a large animal on unfertilized rangeland here and by the time you gut them you can almost throw them over your shoulder and walk out. The deer ticks coming off the carcass will be enough to make you decide against that, though.

As far as the buck fever goes the only thing I can recommend is practice, practice, practice your shooting. Make a trip to the range or a safe location on your place (backstop, good distance, away from houses, etc) at least once a month. Keep your rifles - or any firearm you shoot – clean and if you’re going through multiple boxes in a shooting session scrub the barrel out with a metal brush and some copper solvent and then swab it clean every other box or so. It may sound excessive but it will help keep your gun as accurate as it can be and you’ll be concentrating on your skills, not second-guessing your equipment.

Another thing to consider and something that can help your buck fever is evaluating your rifle’s trigger. Remington is a great brand and the rifle’s trigger may already have a good, crisp release but if it doesn’t, if there’s a long creep before the gun goes off consider investing in a good Timney or similar trigger. One of the most invaluable lessons my uncle taught me about shooting, besides your breathing and a good rest, is the gun blast ought to be a surprise both to you AND the deer! That’s where the practice comes in. Practice your squeeeeeze.

If your practice pays off and you can put the bullet in a silver dollar size area on the target reliably at 100 yards in prone, sitting or a bench rest I would strongly recommend doing a neck shot on your deer. It’s saved a lot of meat for me over the years and it’s also a virtual hit-or-miss proposition. Either you hit the deer and it’s dead before it hits the ground or you miss entirely. With our hypervelocity bullets today any good contact in that area with a good weighted hollow point is going to put them down and at the range you’re talking about it shouldn’t be a problem doing so.

I have not read all posts on this thread but has anyone mentioned trailing the deer with a decent hound dog? I have found one with a lab/bluetick cross. Never tried him before but on a long leash I took him to the last blood sign and he followed the scent trail to the deer.

I have all my rifles triggers set lighter than most. They are light enough that I won't let others take them out for hunting. I prefer them this way and has cured my flinching over the years.

During doe season or crop damage permits we always head shoot the deer to keep the most amount of meat possible. We hang them from the neck for skinning and over the years the neck shots have screwed up our skinning style way to often.

Light triggers
 

I wouldn't let anyone else use them either unless they're familiar with them but, yes, a light trigger has a definite impact on accuracy. I've worked with standard triggers all my life and they've definitely become worse in later years. I bought a Savage .223 that had the sloppiest trigger I've ever experienced which led me to Timney. The rifle belongs to my son now and, to be honest, we haven't installed it as yet but ANYTHING is better than that trigger. It's like drawing the length of a crossbow to cock it. It just keeps going, and going and going .... Savage really ought to be ashamed but the rest of the rifle is pretty darn good and the problem's easily fixed. When you've grown up with the triggers Winchester and other good gun makers produced in the 60s you know what quality really is.

I've always skinned my deer head down. It helps with the draining of blood when you make a knife thrust into the chest cavity at the base of the neck above the breast bone and sever the arteries in there. But I have popped an ankle tendon in the process of removing the skin once or twice, too.

Thanks for all of the information!!

I hope to put it to good use in the coming years.

We have also butchered a deer with an arrowhead found in the tenderloin. My son has tracked a deer for over a mile(in snow) to dispatch it, when a shot went badly. Until this year, most of my deer have been taken with my muzzleloader at close range. I am also, mostly, a meat hunter and would rather have doe in the freezer than a big buck. Ideally, one should not have to track very far, but we all know it happens.

In my gut, I believe that had those does not come along when they did, I would have stopped where I stood and come back in the morning and he would have been right there. I think the does seeing me and spooking sent the buck off with them. I'll never know for sure. There is so much deer sign in this 100 acres we hunt and it is dense with brush, cedars, pine and deadfalls, that tracking any one deer without blood would be very difficult. For someone that has never done it on my own...downright impossible. I am VERY observant, but there just wasn't anything else to go on. Especially 12 hours later.

I typically only hunt evenings since I hate getting up early and being out in the cold. Yes, I'm a fair weather hunter and never wanted to be anything else. I know I have to put them down at a short distance and that I will be gutting and dragging in the dark, but that's the choice I make. We own the land and close our shop at 4 and head out for 1 1/2 hours most days of the season. Doesn't amount to a lot of time but it's some of the best time of day in my opinion.

Thanks again everyone and keep suggestions coming for others to learn.

PS: we do have a hound, but she's only a couch potato.

Something to keep in mind, Fish & Game don't want an animal to go to waste any more than you do. Here in NH they have partnered with local dog trackers and if a hunter is unable to locate his animal after tracking on their own, they will track it for you for free. It may be worth contacting your local Fish & Game to see if they offer a similar service.