learned my lesson the hard way

If you run deer with dogs, some times the only shot you get is running. Having said that most use 12ga buckshot. A quick thought- most deer that are hit when running will drop the tail and quit flagging- they don't slow down just quit flagging.
A .223 will down a deer- a .22 will but the shot placement must be good. Depending on the area that you hunt a .30-30 would be a better choice. Not a bad kick, short guns are faster on target, and cheap ammo.

The factory load Remington .223 would be either 55gr or 60gr with a soft nose. Supposedly one can get it as heavy as 90gr but I've never seen any available. Almost all of my .222 rounds on hand are .223 60gr reloads as versus 50gr factory ammo. Since it's also a military round, there are indeed a lot of cheap low-powered junk around that's made for semi-automatics. The idea there seems to be that if you throw enough of them out there, they are bound to hit something!

At the very moment, I'm looking at what's left of a Remington .243 bullet recovered from last Saturday's buck. That's becoming a popular gun for those wanting accuracy and killing power without setting a smaller person on their behinds. But sometimes I marvel at how much damage that little bullet can inflict.

As for where Rowenna hunts, I know the area fairly well. There, you are either on top of a hill or in a valley. If one misses there, the only thing that you're apt to hit is another hill!

Martin

Yeah! Good old Grant County! All hills, valleys, and draws! I used to hunt around Platteville and Lancaster when I was but a lad. Great way to build lower body muscles. I like the Columbia Co hunting better. I've already got 2 does this year in my backyard and the season goes through Dec 10th!

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veni, vidi, volgavi

No worries about sounding harsh...I know it is a touchy subject and I just hope that other people reading this thread will be able to learn from it, lots of good advice in all of these posts!

I'm honestly not sure what an FMJ is...my .223 is from New England Arms, not a real expensive gun but everyone here seems to really like it. It sounds like a definite that I'll be getting a better gun before next season though, DH was thinking a 22/250 but nothing is for certain yet. Lots of people in this thread suggested a .243 and that is something we may consider as well.

You know that is ironic that you mention whistling at running deer...a couple of days before this all happened, I saw several running deer up close but never had a shot. My FIL told me exactly the same thing, to whistle or yell at the deer to try to get them to stop. I never even thought of it with the buck because it all happened too fast, but maybe I'll have a chance to give it a try.

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Niki

http://www.paparazziaccessories.com/17717

*LOL* That is sure the truth! It is a really beautiful area though, and the wildlife is just amazing.

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Niki

http://www.paparazziaccessories.com/17717

I am no fan of 22 cal rifles for deer. Yes they can be killed with a 22cal rifle, a 17 for that matter but. I would bet more deer shot with a 22 cal are lost than recovered. I also vote for the 243 win or the 6mm rem as the smallest I would use on deer.
Why spend the money to buy another 22 cal varmit rifle (22 250) when that 223 of yours is a proven round. There are small weight bullets for the 243 for varmits and larger ones for deer.
If you want just a rifle for deer hunting I would look at the Remington 260 or 7mm 08 also nice mild recoil rounds.
Shop for a used rifle rather than new for a better price. Shop for a pump (Remington model 760) it is amadextris as are levers like the Savage model 99, if you can find one a Winchester model 88. There is nothing wrong with the win. model 94 or Marlin 336 in 30 30 either. There are lefty rifles on the internet auction sites some times. Problem there is you need to know some one with a FFL or be able to drive to pick it up.

It's always a bummer to loose game you shoot at. I feel your pain as I have been there myself. I shot at a deer hit a tree. Figured I messed that shot up but still tracked the deer about 100 yards to a beaver dam with out seeing any blood so quit. Found the deer 10 days latter just on the other side of the beaver dam when we were rabbit hunting. Those spikes from that deer are on a leather thong I carry in my shirt pocket as a reminder every year during deer season.

Al

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Garden View Apiaries. Where the view is as sweet as the honey.
A member of SEMBA & MBA.

I'm not sure if you would have time to do this with a single shot but if you see a running deer next time shoot a tree aways in front of it.It might make it stop long enough to give you a shot. I've killed two bucks this year and both I had to grunt to get them to stop. I really wished I could whistle.

Tambo

FMJ refers to the bullet not the rifle it stands for full metal jacket .
when looking for a rifle look at the distance your shooting .
if its 100yards or less you can pick up a 30-30 fairly cheap .
I chose a 44 mag rifle becuase my shots are generally under 100 yars and in thick bush . My bullets not moving very fast 900-1100 fps (foot per second) but at 200 + grains small limbs and twigs dont phase its path. the other advantage is its in the dirt by 400 yards . Im also rather fond of lever actions .
personally a 243 is about as small as I would go for a deer rifle , a 270 a little better , if moneys no object a 257 roberts . Im no expert by any means Im just lazy and dont like to track a wounded deer .I use semi jacketed hollow points in the 44 though I recently started using hydroshoks , Ive yet to have a deer take more than two steps with either .
For your 223 look for a good core lock soft point bullet , something that will mushroom out nicely but retain as much weight as possible.

I was hunting deer in manitoba 23 yrs ago and we drove around a bend heading for our site and saw 3 deer satnding in a hayfeild about 200 yards away..we stopped and got out and the deer saw us but never ran..We both leaned on the truck and had all the time in the world to make ours shots.One deer went straite up in the air as they all ran.We drove around a bend to find away to where they were and there was another deer standing in another feild.We got outa agin and fired..The deer dropped rite there.My buddy was the only one shooting at this one and he figgered it ran ..I said"Nope It dropped".We searched for over 2 hrs looking for that deer after we went to the first one and gutted.We wee about to give up when we drove to within 3 yrds of it.It had fell rite where it stood.but we couldn,t see it for the grass.Really the grass wasn,t to long and quite sparce but still we couldn,t find it..Just goes to show..never give up.I,d have never figgered we couldn,t see a deer down in that thin grass but it was almost invisible.until we were rite on it.heck we nearly ran over it and we were looking hard.
my 2 cents
Gord

Bearfootfrarm is correct, you can order and have fitted a different cal barrel for a very reasonable price.
http://www.hr1871.com/Support/accessoryProgram.aspx

I use a .270 H & R, but it was .243 when I got it.
Now I have 10 barrels including a .50 cal muzzle loader for the same gun.

I my opinion also, the .223 is too small for deer, (have one of those H&R's in .223 also).
Full metal Jacket rounds are NOT a hunting round, the pref right thru.

As I am getting older now, I don't like to chase down animals.

So chose your gun carefully, sight in so you know where it will shoot, chose your target carefully, (and beyond), take your best shot, never give up and practice, practice, practice.

Been hunting in Crawford county lately

I'm left-handed too. I've never been able to understand why almost everyone chooses to handicap themselves by not learning to shoot from the other side of their body. In my opinion, the only legitimate reason to shoot 'only' right or left-handed is if you're functionally blind (or missing a hand) on the other side.

A couple of years ago, I had to take a quick shot at a moving buck. I picked up my handgun (off the bench in my tree stand), swung on him, and shot. After I got down to collect him, I realized that I had no recollection of whether I'd shot right or left handed. I had to get back up in the stand and reconstruct the scenario. Turns out that I'd shot right-handed, and I usually shot my single action revolvers with my left.

Mechanical things are built by and for right-handed people. I decided a long time ago that I'd be pretty dumb to waste my time trying to swim upstream.

Its far easier to shoot a handgun with the "wrong" hand than a rifle, because most people have a "dominant eye" also. If your left eye is dominant and you shot right handed with the rifle, youd find yourself leaning over the stock to see the sights. With a handgun it doesnt matter since you simply move it in front of the dominant eye

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

I own both a handgun and a rifle. I definitely agree, with a handgun shooting either right or left-handed doesn't matter too much, although I definitely have a dominant left eye. I've tried shooting rifles righthanded, and for me it is incredibly awkward. Shooting left-handed I'm a pretty good shot, right-handed I doubt I could hit the broad side of a barn *LOL*

Still, I wouldn't trade being a "lefty" for anything

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Niki

http://www.paparazziaccessories.com/17717

Hi there,

Just want to let you know that sometimes, even when you do follow up a shot you don't find the deer! I have used a 22-250 for hunting before and took a deer with what i thought was a perfect shot, but when i went to the spot i had marked in my mind before the shot, i could find absolutely NO blood! We searched for blood and walked to other areas thinking maybe I had mismarked where i had shot the deer and still nothing. It turns out, also after a few days, that I found that deer. It had not gone far either. I don't think i've ever in my life felt so disrespectful of a creature as i did the moment I saw that animal laying dead, and I was responsible. Two people looking on snow covered ground for blood and we didn't see any. Of course we assumed I had a clean miss. Well, I think we all know about the word "assume" I learned my lesson, and I will never make that mistake again. I just feel sick even thinking about it again.

To top off this story, among my family we've used that gun to take two other deer, The last one we saw drop, and could have sworn was dead, aside from the fact that even with the deer at our feet there was absolutely NO blood under, near, or coming out of this animals wounds. We couldn't even find the hole! It literally took two people 5 minutes to move the deer enough to cause a few drops to exit the carcass. Unbelievable! I just couldn't imagine that until I saw it myself.

Too bad I learned the lesson on that the hard way. I will forever follow all my shots, even without blood with that gun!

We can learn the most from a mistake, and in that sense the animal was not wasted, and neither was yours.

.223 is a freaky little round, depending on the bullet type.