pro or con for horns
 

Hi My Name Is Diane And We Are Getting 2 Baby Goats In 2 Wks. One Boer And A La Mancha Boer Mix, Both Females! How Do Most Feel About Keeping The Horns? Also They Will Be Just Weaned. What Do I Need To Do To Make The Move Easier, And What Problems Do I Need To Look For? I Have Read All The Books But They Dont Give Much Info On New Babies. Thank You Diane

My goats have horns (most of them do). I like them, makes it easier to catch... Mine are not pets, though a couple think they are :) . I am raising mostly for meat, Boers which are a little calmer breed. I have gotten caught a few times and the does do know how to use them on each other. But they use them to scratch themselves, protection and I believe they are important for cooling system in the hot weather. If you will be working with them a lot, like milking, hornless would be the way to go, plus my dairy girl (Olberhasli) is one of the more aggressive ones with her horns. Another thing to think about is if you are going to sell any or do 4-H, I believe you need hornless ones but don't quote me, as some buyers will only consider the hornless ones.

Now is the time to decide, because after this you will need to be consistent as the hornless ones are no match to ones with horns.

I have some of each, both naturally polled and horned. I never disbud. There are people who are going to tell you that's it's imperative to disbud, that you're morally obligated to do so, etc., etc., but that just hasn't held water for me. The biggest problem I've had with horned goats is 1) if they're penned in field wire and can get their heads through the holes, they make a mess of the fence getting it back out, and 2) if penned in panels and they can get their heads through, sometimes they get stuck. My 1/2 boer buck has such a set that he can't get his head through anything, and as big as he his if he were to decide to hurt someone he'd do it horns or not.

I prefer mine dehorned, Mainly due to them being able to get their heads stuck in some pretty stupid places... they are easy enough to catch without horns, and I dont much care for being smacked in the head when you are carrying one along and it tosses its head back .. main reason is the fencing though. I find its easier to sell goats that dont have horns because then other people dont have to worry about the horns tearing up their fences either..

I vote in on the side of horns, even though I had to run a low hotwire on the inside of the field fence , to keep the one silly wether from getting his head caught 3X times a day, but the wire worked and he quit doing it.

Horns do work to release heat and since you live in Florida, you ought to consider the pros and cons carfully about horns. I like them, I don't have any problems with anyone with horns however I only have 7 goats , they are all very tame and easily handlable and they are only for field maintenance and the pleasure I drive from their company.

My guys horns also all curve back, no straight up jobs , and I am sure that makes a difference

I Feel The Same Way About Horns. I Guess I Feel Sorry About Hurting Them When God Must Have Had A Reason For Them! We Will Just Have To Be Carful With Them With The Kids As We Do With All Animals. Also, I Think They Have Ticks. With Them Being So Young, How Do I Get Rid Of Them? We Have Had No Problems With Our Other Animals So Far And I Want To Keep It That Way! Thanks So Much

You do have a moral obligation.............:) Brother!

What are you going to do with your goats? Pets? Brush eaters? Because most folks don't deal with their horned goats daily, everyday, twice a day, for 10 months, milking them like dairy goat folks do. I wouldn't have a horned goat on my place, for good reason, I have grandchildren who play with my babies, their eyes are at horn level. You also can't show goats with horns. And don't take the getting their heads stuck in fences lightly. It's all the time, the same goat. Over and over. Read the old posts, they put twox4's duct taped to them, now that's attractive :) And in your heat you go away for the day and have a goat with it's head stuck in the fence, it's either going to scream and heat stress and die in your heat, or get killed by a neighbor dog. Goat on a fence is a dog favorite. Boer horns go back alright, but they also go OUT at the tip as they age. Which means they poke you in the thigh as they walk next to you. A tame goat doesn't have to be 'caught' and that is the biggest consideration you should have, that an health (read the CAE and CL threads) of the goats you are purchasing. Plus if you are going to even think about milking, make sure they only have 2 teats. So as you can see, it's way beyond just horns or not. Vicki

i have meat goats and love the horns. We hate our couple of hornless. They make it much easier to catch and handle. Just like handlebars on a bike, where the head goes the body will follow. The only time I have gotten caught has been on accident ( i bumped into them while it was acratching, and I only got a good bruise. No goat has tried to "gore" anyone of us. we have made our buck mad enough to pen my FIL. George could have and did do that w/o horns. he never tried to butt him, just leaned on him hard. We all got the message.

Electric fencing is the best for any fence system used. It keeps the goats from testing the fence. That saves on the tanglement issue.


When we work with the goats we use a head gate and have at least 2 if not 3 of us working, gabbing and laughing at us while working the goats. our catch pen is not as efficient as it could be :no: :haha: , but it is better than in the begining. the head gate is not very efficient w/ the hornless. We have to stradle them instead.

I also have two small children. i got into goats because they were smaller than say cattle.Our goats happily tolerate humans and some even enjoy our treats but most are not true pets. They are livestock. i would not put my kids in danger. They are taught though that any animal is wild and should be treated w/ respect. Disrespecting a animal is what will get you hurt.

Hornless only seems to be a strict standard practice in the dairy world. I can see how horns would not be a good thing. When I first started out w/ goats I bought dairy wethers. I am glad they don't have horns as I can only imagine 11 goats trying to be petted. the were true pets and raised as bottlebabies. Horns would have been very painful and dangerous w/ small kids around. As it was the goats would sometimes bump into one of the kids and knock him over on accident trying to be petted. There were only hurt feelings. In that case pet goats w/ horns are much more dangerous than nonpets w/ horns. My observations only. Katharine

I have a Heinz 57 variety doe(If you speak Pittsburgheze yunz know what what I mean!)She was the runt and at the bottom of the totum pole.So feeling sorry for her left her horns grow.She is now the terror of the flock(I have 28)
She destroys pens and barn doors by continually butting untill she goes thru.
She tried them on me only one time while milking.She survived :rolleyes:
I lost (aborted) some babies last year from her attacking does that crossed her path.I separated her but she splintered her pen and got in with the herd!
On the other hand my Boer buck (horned and only coming on two is no problem)
And she gets caught in every thing she can get her head into.When she gets exhausted I help her out (easier on my fingers)
I'll disbud every time because you never know what they will be like!
Chas

Count me with the folks who leave the goats' horns alone. Of course, I have pygmy goats, so it's not like they can do much with their horns except beat each other up. I haven't had them do any damage to the fences or get stuck. They can find other ways to escape!

Diane, about the ticks. I just had a doe who had a tough time kidding and needed a Caesarian, so she and both of her kids were struggling for awhile and wound up with a lice problem. My vet told me to buy a flea/tick shampoo that was approved for dogs and puppies and give everyone a bath. The kids are now seven weeks old, and she thought they could handle it. So we did that this weekend, and you must have heard the goat screams from where you live. But everyone is extra-clean, soft and fluffy now, and no one suffered any trauma except getting wet. So this is what I would recommend for you, but you'll need someone good to help you. And maybe some ear plugs!

Why worry about the ticks, God created them and they are just doing what He told them to do. He must have had a reason for doing so.

Im New To Computers So I Couldnt Find Out How To Reply To The One About 2 Teats! Thank You, Thank You, Thank You!!!! I Went To Check Today And The Boer Has Spring Teats ( Or So I Figure, Somethings Wrong Down There!) I Just Thought They Were So Cute And I ( Trusted) The Man Who Was Selling! Wont Happen Again! Thank You Again. Diane

under your message on the right side is a reply field. if you go with your curser (mouse ) and klick you can post an answer to this special person :)
susanne

No horns for me, thankyou. I can't stand pulling goats out of fences. It is horrible wondering how long they have baked in the sun before I have found them stuck like that. I have only two horned goats. One doe that someone gave me horned, I nearly lose an eye every feeding time from her, and one soon to be regestered fullblood Boer buck that is supposed to have horns for the breed standard so I'm told. Other than that, in my 25 years of owning goats, I definately prefer no horns. I disbud all does, Boer or Lamancha, and leave the horns on all wethers as they will meet their fate soon enough anyway and don't need the extra job of disbudding. By the way, within minutes of disbudding, kids are jumping and playing and don't even show signs of a headach. They are hardheaded little things....Diane

I have a doe with a hernia due to a run in with a pair of horns. I am hoping she wil be able to carry kids next year.
Percentage boers must retain their horns. You can remove horns from those who are not registered.
In NY and some other states here in the East we are now allowed to show registered boers with horns.
Diane in FL -- what are "spring teats?"

When I first got interested in packing, I ended up with two wethers with horns. Never again.

They're hard on the fence, hard on each other, horrible to the dehorned goats, and I've gotten quite a few interesting bruises from accidental whacks from the horns. Loading them in my pickup bed is an exercise in caution, as their horns are at my face level as they're hopping in. I've been whacked a few times. I don't physically have the muscle to wrestle around a 200 pound wether by the horns (they will always fight if you grab the horns) and the horns get in the way of buckling a collar on, leading to more bruises to my wrists if the goat decides throw his head around.

I also don't let the neighbor kids in the big-goat pen because the goat horns are at eye level. I'm wary of letting "city" type friends in there for the same reason. People who know livestock know instinctively to watch the horns; "city" people tend to trust the goat not to hit THEM, which is a bad idea, as the goat doesn't give a care where your face is ... "Ooh, cootchie-coo, what a cute goat!" *WHACK* the glasses ...

Polled is definitely the way to go if you're going to work with large goats in close proximity -- milking, working goats, etc.

As far as heat dispersal -- I'd like to see a study on this. My dehorned goats do just fine carrying packs on hot days.

Catching goats is easy. All mine come when called because I usually have treats when I call them. :) They get another treat after I get the collar on ... ginger snaps are popular with my herd, and easy to carry in the pockets.

Leva

Ticks are known to carry and spread livestock diseases. Why would you risk your animals when you have the option to get rid of the ticks? Livestock provide income and/or food for families, not the ticks. Cest la vie, ticks! (SP?)

I'm surprised so many vote for horns. My first two does were horned because the guy I bought them from didn't believe in disbudding, and it didn't even occur to me to ask until we had driven quite a distance to see them. :rolleyes:

They were beautiful, good goats, and I might still have them if it weren't for those horns. They are potentially quite dangerous to children in the barn as well as to the goats themselves. But my biggest issue turned out to be how mean they were to the polled and disbudded goats. When I had to move, it was not even a consideration to put those gals on a trailer with the others, so they had to go.

I would never again buy goats with horns, and have turned down the chance to buy little bucks that weren't already disbudded in what would seem to me to be a timely fashion. Disbudding is easy, and if done early, you can do a good job, put them down, and they'll be back to bouncing and playing in a matter of minutes.

mary

But the horns are just so gorgeous! (ok, ok, bad reason, I know)

I just want to say I have boers, with horns and they have been perfect angels. We also have had a few fainters with horns and only one has been very naughty and would use her horns on the other goaties. With that girl, I also had to remove her from the fence one once a week too. We got fed up and banded her horns this winter.

I've heard from a lot of breeders that horns on boers and fainters are okay, as they don't tend to use them, where dairy breeds can be quite destructive or defensive with horns. It's almost impossible to find a breeder in boers or fainters that will disbud kids, even if you reserve them. I finally had to give in and have horned ones. Oh, well.

I think he was being sarcastic...she was going on about how she would never remove horns because that is how God made them...contrary was just pointing out that God made the ticks too.

I guess I've just been lucky. Probably the main reason I don't dehorn is because the show goat people say I have to. (Relax, I'm not disrespecting show goat people, just pointing out my own rebellious streak.) I do handle my goats daily and milk probably 6 months out of the year. I actually have one old Saanan doe with probably a 20 inch spread who I tell "Lucy, turn your head" when she jumps up on the stanchion. She turns it pretty as you please and maneuvers that big ol' set of horns right in.

well, i'm a no horn person, myself. my son got stabbed by a 6 mo old wether once, that i had neglected to disbud, and it was a pure accident, but he almost lost his eye. to me, the horns are just not worth the potential hazards, and it takes very little to get them gone when the animal is just a few days old.

SORRY, SPELLING ERROR. IT IS SPRIG TEAT, OR DOUBLE TEAT.

Pro.

I'm pro-horn as well.

We have alot of stray dogs people have dumped off around here, along with coyotes and cougars. My pastures are fenced very well and the critters are put up in the barn at night, but I can't be here all day every day watching out for potential predators.

I came home one day to find my largest wether (160#) fending off a stray dog. The sheep (no horns) and the smallest goat (6 months old) were behind him. I really didn't have to do much - that dog was completely freaked out and ran off before I could get into the pasture. All of the nearby dogs (mine included) are afraid of that goat.

I will admit that 160# of lap goat with really impressive horns gets to be a bit much at times, but I really don't want to take away that natural defense. I've also had just as many disbudded goats stuck in fences as horned goats (why they weave themselves in like that, I'll never know).

Wow I want some of those! All my boers with horns do use them, sometimes only as a high five to each other and on each other, but sometimes more serious.


Double teats are ok on boers. Split teats or fish teats are not. I know I have a good webpage in my files somewhere that shows you the good and the bad. I'll look.

We have 4 pygoras which are smaller. We got our 2 does from a place that never handled their goats except for maintenance. It would be impossible to catch them without their horns. When I shear them my 16 year old son catches them and holds them for me. when he first grabs them they actually twist around until they come up against a wall and drop to the ground. Maybe because they've not been handled much they don't use the horns on us - they just run away.

The queen is an ornery, mean one and has some wicked horns that curve out. She gave birth to a little buck who we had dehorned (and castrated )at a week old because we didn't want another with those horns. The other doe had a baby girl, but since she has nice horns that curve back we didn't dehorn her. That wether is the hardest thing to catch when he doesn't want to be caught because there is nothing to hold onto. We have handled the babies continuously too. We can't really put collars on them because it would tangle in their long hair.

Not having horns doesn't seem to bother the wether though. He still butts heads with the little doe and I've even seen his mother teaching him how to butt heads. I will be budding all of her offspring - he's as ornery as she is! I've never had a problem with them getting stuck in the fence. They plough through when they find a weak spot though. Maybe it's because they are shorter and the field fence at their height has smaller holes.

The queen does tear up the bird netting over the bird pens with her horns (it's impossible to keep her out) and they really tore up the chicken house before I figured out a way to bar them from getting in there and eating the layer. There's nothing quite like a goat with long hair covered in broken egg from rolling on a floor nest - yuck!

Went With Mom And Baby
 

Update, I Checked The La Mancha Baby And She Looked Great So I Descided To Take Her And Her Mom! Who They Informed Me Had Been Running With Some Males For About 2 Wks. Could She Be Preg? Dont Know How Old Baby Is. Still Nursing A Little And Imb. Cord Is Not Fallen Off Yet. Seems Really Tiny But So Is Mom. Maybe A Mix With A Pigmy.

do they have horns now?
susanne

We disbud all of our kids. Period.
A couple years back we kept the horns on all the bucks and all the males were left intact. We now wether and disbud at the same time. Less stressful overall for them, I feel. They get that adrenaline going from the disbudding and the cutting isn't felt as much.
We have goats with horns though. Our first goat had horns, second goat had horns, third goat didn't. That first goat eventually helped to starve that third goat to death because she was viscious with her horns. Our first goat, Misty ended up at the sale barn...very few people ever sell their first goat. We did like Misty but she got out too much. The rest of the goats we took in in our first two years (including a stray) all but one were disbudded.

We have 38 goats on our farm currently. Our queen goat, Iris, has beautiful horns. She is also very protective and can be mean. When they are penned up for kidding in the cow barn, she has to have her own pen.
Sammie has straight up pygmy horns and does get her head hung in the fence and I have to free her on a fairly regular basis (I have disbudded goats who do the same thing though). I can't wait until her horns are mature enough thatt she won't be able to stick her head through the fence.
We also bought a doeling, sight unseen, who has small horns. I refuse to dehorn them ever again. I watched mature does have their horns removed and it was ugly. I've seen mature cows have their horns taken off and it was ugly (one reason I work hard to get our calves disbudded within a month of age). Those three will always have horns. Any animal we bring in in the future with horns, unless they are young enough to disbud, with keep their horns.
However, when looking for bucks, I look for disbudded bucks. One of our new Nubian bucks is naturally polled.

We have dealt with similar things with our milking herd of cattle. Three cows with horns, over a dozen without. Snowdrift ripped into Simone when she got loose from her stanchion. Simone was one of our highest producers. Her side swelled up huge and she refused to come into the barn for quite a few days and her production took a huge hit.
Not to mention how destructive they can be to the nether region. And when they start stabbing udders your herd is a goner.

If you are going to confine animals in a smaller area than they would natutrally have then you need to take responsibility in maintaining their safety. Horns in a small enclosed area is not a good idea, unless they are all on even footing (all have horns). Putting horned and disbudded or polled together is generally a big no-no. It has worked out okay for us, except for that one loss seven years ago. A lot of it has to do with your management and their personalities.
It really is an individual farm thing.
We take control over these animals and we are responsible for their well being.

YES. BABYS ARE JUST STARTING. I GUESS WE WILL BE HAVING HORNS SINCE WE WILL BE KEEPING THE MOTHER AND I DONT WANT SOME WITH AND SOME WITHOUT.