Boer Buck Ill- Help
 

I guess with so much rain it was inevitable. He is very lethargic. Lies still most of the time. Stands up but won't walk. Seems to almost want to urinate but can't??? Not sure. He spreads his hind legs a little and takes a step back, then another, then nothing. Stool looks normal though in much reduced quantity. Not eating much. He's 10 months old and just started to service the girls recently. He's vaccinated. This started yesterday. Any ideas?

Just guessing, but it sounds like it might be urinary calculi. I'd ask a vet without delay if you want to keep this goat.

Kathleen in Oregon

If he needs vet help we're up the creek without a paddle. There are no goat vets in my county. I looked at the Urinary Calculi symptoms and he's not showing them though. He's not restless- he's lethargic. And he's not looking at his abdomen at all.

oh no :( never mind. I just did a search and he does fit other symptoms and his diet was primarily grains :waa: is there anything at all I can do here? Is it 100% fatal? I would rather shoot him than have him endure pain only to die :(

I sure hope someone with experience in this comes on!! All I've read is that if the 'stones' are at the tip of the penis, then the tip is usually cut off, not only removing the blockage, but making the opening larger.. but that's just what I've read!!

Well, it's not a good deal ... basically, if you took him into the vet, they would likely take the end of his urethra process off to try and clear the blockage. Or you could actually attempt it yourself -- this page has some instructions:

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/ur...alculirw.shtml

Both that page and this one have some natural rememdies you could attempt --

http://www.fiascofarm.com/goats/stones.htm

If you can't get him urinating, he will die, and a ruptured bladder has to be very painful :(

Tracy

I've tried everything I've read and I've drenched him four times since this morning w/ different remedies I've found online. I've even given him two massages that I never imagined myself giving :o . He' s dribbled some urine and he's looking better but I can hear his full bladder. Tried to cut off the urethra process but I'm by myself today and can't manage it. I'm looking for a goat vet in one of the nearby counties but he's in God's hands tonight so I'm praying and burning candles :worship:
I really need to be kicked in the butt :( I read about this before I started keeping goats but at that time I was only interested in keeping does and it never registered. Thanks everyone for helping.

My prayers will be with you too, and your buck! I sure hope you find a 'goatie' vet in time!!

Thank you Stacy. God helped him through the night. He's walking this morning and sniffing one of my does :) but I know he's still in the woods. Now its up to me. I can't check in again until this afternoon after classes and I hope after a vet visit. Just wanted to peek in for a sec. and let you know how he was. BTW, his name is Cry Baby.

Tango, does he have a fever? When did you worm him last? Are his gums pale? It does sound like UC to me, but I just had a wether do the same thing and it wasn't. I wormed him good and drenched him with Pedilite several times a day for 3 days. He didn't seem to be in any pain. He's fine now.

HE'S PEEING!!!! :haha: :waa: :haha: :waa: I came home after school to search for a vet. One of my students told me about one in Stuart who treats livestock. I heard Cry Baby when I neared his pen and I couldn't believe it. I was so worried over what I might find. For the past three days he's been sounding very weak- his voice has been muffled. He came to the gate and I gave him hay and he took it and ate. He's walking around. He even peed in his hay :haha: :waa:
pinemead, they were all wormed at the beginning of summer in June. The mosquitoes are really, really bad here right now and I also though of worms but his sheath is covered in little particles and dirt. When I massaged him yesterday a few small particles went into my hand. They were like those water absorbing crystals for vases only very small- the size of fleas. He was distended and in pain and the water was sloshing around in his bladder. I don't know if the diluted vinegar drenches helped yesterday or the massages did or if it was my prayers last night.
His urine is not pouring out as strong as usual but it is pouring and not dribbling. I know he is still in trouble but I think I will continue with what I was doing yesterday. I haven't been able to find ammonium chloride around here but I read yesterday it isn't a great thing to give goats. Any opinions? Any tried and true buck diets? There should be a Buck Goat Health sticky here.

Great news! You can order ammonium chloride through Hoeggers www.hoeggergoatsupply.com -- it certainly isn't bad for them, and it might save your guy from going through this again!

If you got a couple of stones out of his urethra, there are zillions more still floating about in his bladder -- I just saw a video of a scoped bladder and it was pretty amazing -- looked like BB's rolling around in there.

The buck diet -- good grass hay and no grain. Pretty simple!

Tracy

Tango, We have been dealing with stones in our new buck too. It was so bad that he was actually screaming over and over. We got a pain shot for him at the vet and started him on ammonium chloride pills that we got from the vet. We have also started to put about 1/4 cup apple cider vinegar in his 5 gal bucket of water and we give him about 1/3 cup of lemon juice every day. I have since ordered the ammonium chloride for goat from hoeggars...it is not very expensive ...that we use. He is doing much better, not perfect, and we keep an eye on him. We posted out problem on www.goatweb.com and they helped us out, you could do a search in the vetclinic for the posts and hear what everyone had to say to us. I do know that without their advice, we would have probally lost our goat. Our goat started to pee and then when we quit giving him the amm. chlo. he started to have problems again so we just do it in his feed every day...we also switch him off of so much grain and are forcing him to eat more hay. We used to give him blueribbon sweetfeed but to much grain and molassas is bad for him too so we switched to a goat pellet food which also has ammonium chloride in it. I know this is horrible to see your goat go through, but from what i understand, this is pretty common in male goats (especially wethers, even though mine is full service). Good luck. We also gave some anitbotics so that he didn't get a bladder infection too. I hope it works out for you.

Belinda

Marcia, I'm so glad he made it through the night and that he's peeing!! :dance:
First we should say "thanks to the Big Guy :worship: and then get the guy on a good diet!.. what Tracy said, a good grass hay and no grain.. :cool:

Yep, apple cider vinegar in the water...Joan :)

Thanks everyone. I ordered the ammonium chloride but it will take a few days to get here so I'm going to call all the vets in town to see if they have any in pill form (thanks for the idea Belinda). Grass hay is pretty easy. I started him on that yesterday and that was all he got today. I know he likes the other stuff, but that ain't gonna happen again. I'll keep two eyes on him and keep the vinegar going. I wasn't expecting to see him alive this afternoon - if school hadn't been closed for a week and a half after Hurricane Frances I would have cancelled my classes. When our first kids were born this year and one looked like he had begnun to scour I cancelled classes and stayed with him medicating him. I really dislike leaving an animal in these times- never would leave my child so why my kid? :) God has been very good to us :worship: everything I read yesterday showed very little hope. I appreciate your good wishes, prayers, and advice.

What great news! I have 2 wethers and UC is what worries me the most.

Yes to cider vinegar in the water. Yes to ammonium chloride. You can add extra salt to Cry Baby's diet until the ammonium chloride gets here - the salt will keep him drinking lots of water. And yes, watch the grains. My guys get 1/4 cup of grain per day so I can slip in copper without poisoning my sheep - that's it, otherwise its grass hay and browse or alfalfa. My oldest wether is 4, so far so good.

Hi,

Don't beat yourself up too badly about not knowing about this before raising goats. Its hard for a, "Newbie" to know everything, let alone what questions to ask. I didn't, and I know many of us on here, didn't know anything or all problems when we began. Especially if you don't have a goat mentor ot the person you buy a goat from know a lot either. Thats why I like the internet to find out about those issues involving goatys. Out of curiosity, how much grain have you been feeding him? Too much results in urinary calculi. Sure sounds like urinary calculi to me too. Its amazing he is better since this can be and usually is fatal. The best method to help save him if it were urunary calculi is for surgery as mentioned. Feening bucks grain can, and usually does result in urinary calculi and, sweet feed especially can be the culprit. Thats why we are so very careful as to how much grain we feed our bucks. Usually, like many folks, we feed them very little. Some folks feed no grain to their bucks.

Some folks feed lamb starter pellets to prevent urinary calculi. A breeder who I got my first Alpine buck from fed lamb starter pellets, they had raised goats for 30 yrs almost and he was a salesman for Blue Seal feeds. You are very lucky you caught it in time. I know the feeling about the goaties being your, "4 legged kids!" I teach too and have had to on ocassion bring a kid to class. I also burn candles too whenever any of my goaties or anyone else gets sick. Seems to help, and if not, then it helps me stay centered.

Where are you located? Maybe one of us can point you to a good goat vet or mentor in your area. Is so hard to find a good vet, especially one whop does goats. Kinda like, "Finding a nedle in a haystack!"

Take care.

Bernice

Jen, this morning I am going to start the vinegar in the water. He's caught on to me and won't let me catch him (must be improving :)) so I can't drench him right now.
Bernice, Thanks. I've been relying heavily on goat feed. For the past two months we've had bad weather and my feeding routine which included cutting browse and bahia grass to give them has deteriorated due to the mosquitoes and the property being soaked or the (count them) four hurricane preparations we've done in the past 6 weeks (including Jeanne now) :no: I just blocked out the dangers to bucks. If anyone knows of a goat vet near Okeechobee county, Florida, I'd really appreciate hearing from you. My surrounding counties are St. Lucie and Highlands but I can go to Martin or Indian River (long way for an emergency). Thanks :)

I feed my guys a very small amount of Purina Showgoat in the AM. It contains ammonium chloride and a coccisidiostat.

Recipe for Drench of Bucks with U.C.
 

I sure hope your buck is doing a lot better. I have lost two bucklings to U.C. last year, and it is very hard to see them going through it. Our vet tried catheters, snipping the pizzle, etc. but to no avail. I was up with each of them, massaging and giving aspirin for pain. What usually happens is the urethra gets so irritated and swollen from the stones passing that for a few days, he will probably be uncomfortable.

I found this this recipe which has helped a lot of other bucks. It makes the urine acidic, much like the vinegar does, as will cranberry juice. The oil in the purple onion is better and has healing qualities along with the garlic.

3 lemons, squeeze the juice out....and save juice , dice 1/2 purple onion, 6 pieces of garlic glove diced up, 1/2 cup of distilled
water. Mix all of this together and simmer for 20 minutes. Place
into a blender when cooled and blend real good. Drench with one cup of this
every 12 hours for 3 days.

Here is a site, that you an order their Tri Acid Pack, you can use it to top dress a cracker or treat, put in their water, or use as a drench. It smells like cake batter, so the goats really don't mind it at all. I ordered a couple packs to save on shipping. They have very good information on U.C., what causes it - stress and diet and what they have done to prevent in their bucks.

Tri-Quest Boer Goat site:
http://www.triquestboergoats.com/

From their site:
To Order Four Way Acid Pack:
$9.40 per 8 oz packet
$6.50 s/h on one to three packets
We take Visa or MC and Paypal (order@triqeustboergoats.com) or send payment to:

Tri-Quest
3326 South First Road
Humansville, MO 65674

Good to hear he is doing better.

Besure to dress all feed with ammonium chloride for you bucks and wethers. Note Feed with ammonium chloride at 1% or less is useless. They need more.

You are so welcome Tango. I hope he will continue to get better. Elle-May, I use many of the Tri-Quest products too since they are closer than Spring Briar, the manf. is in NC. We used to live close to NC when we were first introduced to their products. Thanks for posting that recipie you did, thats really great info to know.

Bernice

Thank you all- this is just a quick post since we are expecting hurricane Jeanne this eve. I had to have my son help me catch Baby cause he's a feeling better and is stronger but his urine flow has reduced again. I drenched him this morning w./ a 50/50 cidar vinegar and cranberry juice solution. Won't be able to do more until Jeanne passes. Please keep him and my small herd (Goativa, Napster, and Kazaa) in your thoughts and prayers.

Glad to hear he is better and getting stronger. Hope he is on the mend. You are definately in our prayers and thoughts.

Bernice

Good luck with everything, Tango. I'm really glad your guy's out of the woods, but sorry you have yet another hurricane to deal with! Take good care.