Is it bizarre . . .

IKR, light rain. I feel even stronger, however; I think that when animals were created (including people, livestock, everything!), they were made with the intention of living and dying naturally. In the wild, I can completely understand that predators need to kill other animals to survive; however, we don't. If you have to eat meat, eat animals that have died of old age or premature babies or whatever. Don't kill them for your sake, not even thinking about the animals. This is not intended to cause argument; it is only the way I feel about it.

This is why I have goats. They are not pets. I love them and I care for them. If I did not make use of the animals as food those animals would over run my ability to around for them.

They need shelter, and food and water and time. The hides are salted and saved. The meat is put to use. The rest is composted.

Living off the land to the degree that we do might not be pretty but it is honest. I have grown a lot from only eating store wrapped meat limited to beef, pork, and chicken.

Each animal butchered is given a name and preyed for and death is quick and humane. Personally it would be easier on me to shoot from a distance and never see the blood but I know that more likely the animal would die in great pain.

Since the animal is to die for my sake I personal want it done right. I know I am.Personally responsible for the lives I have enjoyed on my plate.

I believe in a diet that meat is a part of. My teeth were made to consume meat. Having animals is not a fun hobby it is a way to live for many. Including me

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I'll keep my guns, ammo, and second admendment--You can keep the CHANGE.

Newborn chevon is definitely not the same as veal. It seems rather disingenuous to imply that the two are related in any way.

If someone chooses to butcher very young, even newborn, it is most certainly their choice. As long as the kill is humane, and the food is not wasted, there is no problem.

If you find that so morally abhorrent, perhaps you'd be more comfortable in a "no-kill" forum, where they raise pets instead of food.

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Je ne suis pas Alice

http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/

All of you have a right to your opinion as I. I eat meat but I think for too long a time people have justified their actions on previous cultural traditions and accepted knowledge of the day. Why would you want me to post elsewhere? I have a right to post where I want to.

Besides my posts might afford you comic relief OR make you think. Either way, have a good day!

You most certainly have the right to post where you want to. However, it is exceedingly presumptuous of you to assume that we need to be made to think.

Most of us have been doing this for awhile. Our practices in goat management come from our experiences, our needs, and our lifestyles.

If you choose to be anthropomorphic, that's fine. Most of us are - to a point. But our animals provide us with food, income, and by-products. Some of us pull kids at birth for disease prevention. They never ever suckle their dams. Is that cruel?

This is a livestock forum, where we help each other with our animals. It's taken a bit to get this place to where it is. Over the years, I've seen issues develop on other forums here because some people expressed their humanoid feelings quite vociferously, accusing people of being "callous, cold, offensive, and disgusting" (your words).

And that is why I suggested you may feel comfortable somewhere else. We talk about the nuts and bolts of animal husbandry. If you find that offensive, then you will be offended. We don't need you to "make us think," because we do think - quite a lot.

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Je ne suis pas Alice

http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/

I once used to raise goats for pets only. I CHOSE to start butchering them because I do STRONGLY believe that butchering is far from the worst option for them. If you've seen some of the 'beloved pets' with absolutely horrible management that I have, perhaps you'd think differently as well. I also think the 'save them all' mentality in non-butchering farms is the worst thing for the goats that should be culled, as WELL as future goats and the industry. Some seem to think the 'save them all' is reducing harm, but in fact I believe I could make a very strong argument for the complete opposite - it is causing more harm than good most of the time, and we're doing it 'for us', not 'for them'.

My goats are livestock, and I have spent years thinking about them. Please don't presume otherwise just because I butcher them as well.

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Dona Barski

"Breed the best, eat the rest"

Caprice Acres

French and American Alpines. CAE, Johnes neg herd. Abscess free. LA, DHIR.

I believe everyone, including myself, should be encouraged to think. It is how conditions improve. And as for presumptuous, I feel the height of that is when a poster that disagrees with an opinion, tries to encourage/directs the other poster to go to another site. I joined this site to learn and share. Sometimes I agree with what is said and other times not. I do hope I never get to the point of trying silence someone's conflicting opinion by suggesting they take their opinion elsewhere. Again, have a good day!

I wanted to add the kissy face icon, but reconsidered...

This has turned into quite an interesting discussion, as it usually does here.
Light rain, if you joined this forum to "learn and share" why ,regardless of your personal feelings would you call kasilofhome's use of her goat kids "disgusting"?
Further, you then state that what I have been involved in for most of my life may be "legal", but my operating my farm the way I choose to "takes all kinds".
Directly implying that what I and others choose to do is somehow very wrong.
You then seem to have taken offence when several of the good folks here, myself included , simply suggested that you may be better served elsewhere.
Personally, I just don't want to see you "disgusted" by any opinion that I may have again. Have a good day.
Best of luck.

Exactly.

I don't see why someone would come here, proclaim many of us to be essentially disgusting barbarians, and then try to turn it back on us when we call that person out.

Seems there is always someone looking to be offended... But of course, we must not be offended by their judgment of us.

This is a great forum, and we've been able to accept each others' husbandry methods and use of animals. While we don't always share each others' philosophies, we do share a concern for proper care of goats.

For a bunch of pretty opinionated folks (hey, we're goat people, after all!) we've pretty much managed without accusing those with whom we disagree of callous, offensive, and disgusting animal management.

I'm outta here, to go use that wonderful magical ignore feature. LOL

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Je ne suis pas Alice

http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/

As the OP of this thread, here's how I feel: I have my opinions and other people have theirs, and although I am in the minority for this particular topic, I feel that no more discussion is necessary. I didn't create this topic to start an argument. I think everyone has more or less said how they feel, so maybe this thread should just be ignored from here on out. Have a good day everyone!