Want to add Natural Wormer to feed
 

I read a lot of the old threads but didn't see exactly what I was looking for. What could I get my feed store to add to my feed that they would eat and that the feed store would carry or could get.

From what I've read the natural wormers HELP with worms. The worms don't acquire an immunity. It makes them healthier overall. I've been using the medicated noble goat grower and the babies are all super healthy. I'm having troubles with the milkers and dry yearlings.

Want to add Natural Wormer to feed
 

Pumpkin Seeds?
BOSS? (Already use)
Food grade DE?
Molly's?
Copper (already Bolus)


I want easy. It doesn't have to be a guarantee. Just a help.

Does any of those 1000's things mix straight into my bulk feed.

Maybe their isn't anything that's easy?

If you want a natural dewormer that has been studied, then you need lespedeza hay or frequent cuttings from pines. Or you could seed your pasture with lespedeza....even better. Sorry, these aren't things that can be added to feed. If I can find the study on condensed tannins again, I will post it.

While many good friends of mine use herbals and like them, I'm extremely skeptical of them, personally. Most science done shows that few herbs do what the claims say and many have bad side effects. Most herb use descriptions have very spectacular and, IMO, nonsensical descriptions of their actions. Herbs, in theory, work because they contain CHEMICALS, NUTRIENTS, or PROPERTIES (some are mechanical action, like DE) that have effects in/on the body. Though they are not regulated by the USDA, I am not convinced that they are safe, consistent, or effective in many cases. I'm not totally skeptical in all cases as some are great nutrient dense foods, and some do have proven positive actions. Herbal wormers have a bit of research done on them and while there ARE concerns with common ingredients with pregnancy etc, they do seem to work a bit for worms. Always do fecals, many people who do herbals think it's working because their animals aren't dead... Wether or not the extra work and cost is worth it to you, is up to you.

ANYWHO, I tried molly's herbals years and years ago. All goats but one hated it. I then had to switch to drenching them. I gave that up after about a week. The amount of work involved was simply not worth it, and they HATED it and would run away from me and I would get angry. I would rather responsibly, rarely use chemicals.


My good friend Kristie does herbals and is the nicest, most helpful person you'll ever meet. Land of Havilah Herbals - http://www.landofhavilahfarm.com/store.php

I think this was the study I read a few months back. Remarkable results!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19464120

I like DE but has to be done right, sprinkling on top of feed doesn't get the job done. Make a mud consistency mix with a little molasses mixed in for flavor and mix it right in with their feed on the milk stand. Otherwise if just sprinkled on it just falls to the bottom of the feed bucket. This way they will eat it happily!

Also black walnut is a good herbal wormer.

I've got 200 bales of hay that has a significant amount of lespedeza in it. For Sale.

And if I were any where near you, I would buy some of it :)

I planted lespidiza in my pastures and will reseed until it gets established.

Does it work. I'm getting Ulm alfalfa next weekend. I got Bermuda this weekend.

I'm not looking for a cure. I'm looking for a helping hand with the chemicals.

I think you are going to find yourself in a worm battle, at this point.. no matter what you try. be it chemical or natural/herbal based... You've brought in (kept and sold) so very many goats in just one year -from so many different farms.. from so many different areas of the country.. with so many different ways that each of those former owners wormed their herds.. you are just ripe for a breeding colony of hard to kill worms.. I don't see EASY as an option for you situation at this point.. sorry..

(as time passes and/if you slow down on bringing in new goats.. maybe things will level out for you) read that you lost a 2 year old milker the other day.. so sorry to hear that.. each herd has their own germs/worms/cocci.. mix them all together and that stew might be a mighty one..

susie

The reason I'm asking is that all the young ones are thriving. They are on "medicated feed" and none are ever sick. So why not medicated for the milkers? Then I thought that medicated feed for milkers might create a super worm so I thought what about a natural wormer to add to the feed to create a healthier more immune goat.

I read an article about papaya. But I wonder how readily available it is in north Arkansas.

http://news.ifas.ufl.edu/2013/06/ufi...plagued-goats/

The medicated feed has an additive that is for coccidia, not worms.

Want to add Natural Wormer to feed
 

Yes I realize that. Hence the question about natural wormers. The deccox won't do anything for the milkers. It's doing it's job for cocci on the younger ones. It's a really weird thing. Maybe it's the feed????

Want to add Natural Wormer to feed
 

I did lose a 2 year old. She went from healthy to a little scouring to looking good and no scouring and eating browse to dead in about an 8 hour period. I have been told it was more than likely entero. But I don't know enough about that to come to that conclusion.

She was in the field eating leaves at noon and dead in the same spot at 3 when I found her. Not sure time of death.

Want to add Natural Wormer to feed
 

Could it be the feed???? The only thing I'm having issues with are ones that get grain. The bucks are never sick. They don't get grain. None of the babies. None of the non milkers. Hmmmmmmm maybe I've hit on something there. Possibly not worms after all. None of the fecals show a heavy load.

also got to remember.. no one else's body is strained.. kids & bucks while not eating grain.. are also NOT producing milk.. worms LOVE stressed/straining bodies.. hence worming the day they kid.. this has been perfect weather for baberpole worms.. I'd almost bet money that's what killed your doe..

susie

Want to add Natural Wormer to feed
 

The fecal did show barberpole that day. Also showed Osteragia. I had wormed her with Cydectin 30 days prior. I guess I should of followed up 10 days later.

Want to add Natural Wormer to feed
 

I've got three more that have shown signs and been confirmed through fecals. I upped the dosages and followed up a week later on those 3.

The other 45 or so have never shown anything. One is a ff milker. One is the oldest one I have(just dried her off) and the other is a yearling that I've been trying to put weight on. Now that I think about them, they are the weakest in the herd. Time to cull???

It could be time to cull. Is there any family ties btw them? Farms they came from?

The reason medicated feed may help in some instances is that it allows the body work less to keep cocci down, allows them to gain weight, and eventually can help the immune system heal to fight off other problems.

Herbal wormers - The old gal I brought in last year, the gal that had her had done everything she could think of to pink her up and get her to gain weight. Wormed her a few times, including once with prohibit. Finally I put her on a weekly drench of Fir Meadows Dworm keeping that up till it got COLD out. She looked much better this spring after kidding and her former owner couldn't believe it.

All are from different places.

Doug here are some links for you...

http://store.firmeadowllc.com/

http://eap.mcgill.ca/agrobio/ab370-04e.htm

I'm sure I have others, but it's a start for you.

Going to mow the field that has been housing the milkers.

Remember to mow high. Worm larvae climbs 4 to 6 inches in the morning dew.

property management is going to be your best hope, you did bring way to many in a short time, folks do that with salt water tanks as well. I have already spoken my peace on how to get control of your BPW just because you see pink eyelids doesnt mean the goat isnt loaded WHEN YOU COPPER. I found no reduction in worm egg counts using Mollys herbal wormer, thankfully they where not bad to begin with. Medicated milk for milkers, I drink that stuff I will pass. But most importantly I did want to mention here in GA and AL several people have lost goats due to Southern States goat feeds, since I think they go out your way I wanted to throw that out there. Doing a fecal is quite easy and really for you at this point buy a scope, a few mcmaster slides, make some sugar or salt water solution, print the chart off and go practice.

Uh oh! I need you to elaborate on this a bit more.....we just switched to SS!

its on a facebook group called Georgia Only Goats for sale I don't know if you can read it without being a member but you can join of course. I kinda just bumped it up so you didnt have to search for it

Holy crap I'm suddenly glad I just switched away from SS. :shocked: That's really scary!

Don't cull until you've had the animals on your property for at least a year or more.

Doug, you cut your own hay, right? Consider growing the sericiea lespedeza and baling it. I will so buy your extra hay!!! I have it in my grazing area but not enough. The stuff grows in fields all around here, you might find someone you can cut it off of. For planting, I'd go with the AU grazer since it should hold up to being cut better than what you see on the side of the road and in people's fields.

Is there any way your goats can graze woods? The tree leaves with tannins and oils in them do seem to help.

Another thing that can help is fresh garlic. Most goats will eat it if you just throw cloves in their bowl. They may not the first time but usually will eventually. You could throw a few cloves on their ration morning and night for three days a week.

The trouble with herbal stuff, at least for treatment level dosing, is it takes multiple doses per day for several days. You can't just give it once a week or once a day for a few days and knock down a fecal count. It would be like taking a dose of pennicillin once a week or something. It's just no in the system long enough to do anything. I don't know if the once a week thing can work for prevention or not though. Many goats don't like the herbal wormers at first, but after a while they will. If your feed has molasses in it, then mixing a dose into their feed is very easy.

The best answer, I think, is a set up with a lot of antiparasite plants as forage. Lespedeza is one, but also, I think, pine and oak and there are other plants that are supposed to be good like birdsfoot trefoil, chicory, mustard etc. That's how "herbal wormers" are really designed to work. To be eaten all the time and coming in waves. None are available all year long.

Barring that a dry lot and cutting and delivering all your feed as they do in tropical areas (in fact, they will put goats up off the ground in those places, with slatted floors).

This is the feed I mixed today.
300 lbs oats
50 lbs boss
50 lbs chopped corn
50 lbs alfalfa pellets
50 lbs molasses
300 lbs Dairy Parlor.

What can I add to it next time?

I have access to 90 acres of overgrown fields that my neighbor wants to put my goats on. You wouldn't be able to even see them. It's very very thick. The fence is 5 strand barb wire. I'm concerned they will get out and 90 acres is a lot of area. It would be goat heaven as far as stuff to eat.

Oh man I will never stick a piece of grass in my mouth again!!!

Yes! I posted just one study. There's are several others out there. Just google lespedeza+goats or condensed tannins+goats, you will find even more.

I'd say they will get out.

If you lost one recently with entero symptoms I would suspect diet. No heavy worm loads, scours... Your milkers may not need all the grain. Unless you are on milk test and needing high production from them you may find they do better with alfalfa pellets and a little oats and BOSS on the stand. Its true lactating does need more energy. The inclination is toward sweet feeds to meet their demands but those feeds stimulate production, increasing the need for more energy, it can become an unsustainable vicious cycle. It might be worth a try returning to a more natural diet. Production might not be as high but health might improve.

I bet she died of pneumonia from anemia. It will take them so very fast. Sometimes the only symptom is fast breathing.