Small Homestead Goats?
 

We are currently renovating our small homestead and preparing to incorporate homestead critters to our little farm. Based upon our property layout, we currently only have a little over half an acre of pastured area for livestock.

Yeah, we're small! We plan to have some chickens and rabbits, since I am familiar with them and love raising them. I'd also like to incorporate a couple dairy goats into the mix for their milk. My son has a ton of food allergies and cows milk has never really settled well with him. We've had great success with purchased goat milk but I'd like to raise my own.

I'm really really looking into Nigerian Dwarves. I know they don't produce much, but he's the big milk drinker in the family and certainly doesn't go through 1/2 gal a day. I use milk mainly for cooking and baking, but don't really need to use it every day. The more I read, the more I like the idea of the compact but sturdy Nigerians from good milking lines.

Would 1/2 an acre of brushy pasture land be feasible for a couple little goats? I know they may not be able to 100% forage, and I'd be happy to supplement them any feed they need, but I want to make sure they're happy more than anything.

I do live pretty close (Southern Indiana) to a couple Nigerian breeders that breed for dairy lines and I plan to go visit them and look around. If I am able to sufficiently support them on such a small amount of land, I plan to look into getting a couple doelings in the spring. I'm still undecided on whether to house a buck or utilize stud services when the time comes. I plan to sell the babies down the line to offset some of their costs but I want to make sure we have enough room for them. I know that you can stagger Nigerian breeding because they stay in season year round, correct?

We'll be spending the rest of this year and winter preparing their living areas so I have plenty of time for research, but you guys seem like great sources of information! :)

I really can't help you much with the milking or breeding info but I can give a thumbs up to Nigerian Dwarfs. I have three weathers and love them. We are on three acres and have a fenced in area for the 3 of them that is probably about 1/2 acre and they do just fine. They do graze some, but they LOVE their hay also. They love to get on their hind legs to eat fresh leaves off the tree branches they can reach, and then in the fall, the brown crunchy leaves are favorites as well.
They are like 3 clunky affectionate dogs - all fighting for your attention at the same time. They really have their own personalities and are such fun.
Good luck and have fun! ( We are in north central Indiana and we drove up to Nappanee, IN to get ours from a breeder)

I can't answer your question about Nigerians, or small goats for that matter. You should also look into mini dairy goats as well. I believe they are a little bigger than Nigerians, but produce more. Also make sure those teats are going to be big enough for you to milk should you decide to hand milk.

You might also think about getting some bred does that have been trained to milk instead of getting doelings. You are learning and the goats would be learning. Plus the first fresheners produce less than an older doe. And yes, you can stagger breedings out so that you always have milk:)

Having owned both Kinders (smaller goats from Nubian dam and Pygmy sire) and full sized Nubians, I have to say that even a couple of small goats will eat your pasture down pretty quickly. Once the brush is gone you will need to really attend to the pasture to make sure it is "good" nutritionally for your girls. Obviously, you will need to supplement, too...even with good pasture...especially for milking girls. Kinders for sure in my experience will eat much less than full sized girls, give really great tasting milk (the best IMO) and are very hardy little things. Nubians are much better looking (again, my opinion). I have HEARD (cannot confirm with personal experience) that F1 mini Nubians are usually good milkers (they are a mix of Nubian dam and Nigerian sire) and have decent teats (but you need to look at the dam and the sire's dam, too!!). Later on they are not as reliably milky (again, just what I have heard from several sources and is a general statement that could be disproven by any particular doe). I would certainly consider Kinders if I were you over MOST Nigerians...for the milk production and teat size. However, if you are careful and picky about your selections (not based on eye color or beautiful coats) you will do ok (again IMO). Good Luck!!

For 1/2 acre and less than a half gallon milk ND will be your best bet. If you keep two registered does with good milk lines, you can reliably sell bottle babies. Which means you keep all the milk for yourself and save land for browse. Borrowing a buck will be most cost effective for two does. I raise standard dairy goats and have a large pasture but I have figured out a very productive system of gardening using chickens in portable hoop houses. I rotate garden areas and plant perennial and annual browse on fallow areas; buck plot blends work great. Woven wire is the perimeter fencing with cattle panels and t-post used to partition off areas. I've really built up the soil over the years, its far more productive than pasture land and has a very low percentage of grass, great for goats. My garden area, which measures about a quarter acre, supports 2-3 weanlings (or my buck, depending on who needs a separate space). I give each area a two week rest between, and try not to let it get browsed shorter than 5 inches. I keep them off the area in the winter to prevent accumulation of manure and parasite eggs. In a small area like 1/2 acre, you will have to plan carefully to prevent overgrazing and will probably need to keep them in a more confined pen through the winter. And depending on your location, access to feed and storage, I recommend alfalfa pellets(not cubes) with a little oats and BOSS(black oil sunflower seed). Less waste and storage space with pellets vs. hay.

My one advice is to watch out for teat size. I am milking my FF Saanen (full sized!), her teats are not bad for FF teats, but they are still small enough to cramp up my hands. I make my eight year old milk her, it's great. :D We decided against NDs and minis specifically because of the teat issue - they exist with good teats for hand milking, but are hard to find. Also, I have big hands.

Wow, such great advice!!

I truly appreciate it!! My fiance has been spending his afternoon with me researching mini breeds.

Truth be told, I grew up in the country but never knew much about goats and different goat breeds. I knew of the popular ones like nubians and pygmies but not really a whole lot about much more than that. I've spent the past few weeks researching and I learn new things every day. My aunt raised Nubians for years and they're adorable but very, very loud. They're also very very big, by goat standards. :)

Kinders sound really interesting too. There's a breeder for them about 150 miles away from us, but we won't ever mind traveling for good stock. We're looking for a breed or breed cross that would produce some nice butterfat for versatility too. I know NDs produce high amounts, and I read that La Manchas do as well. Would Mini Manchas be a good consideration? La Manchas are a breed I had never heard of until recently and despite their interesting appearance, I've really read some good things about them. They seem to be good "starter goats" in their temperment and their production. Do Mini Manchas carry those same traits? I know they produce more, but I'd find a use for any milk we get! I've also read that their milk is quite sweet like NDs.

This is basically just an echo of what others have said but I have a small herd of Nigerians. They are awesome - hardy, friendly, not hard on fences, but I definitely agree about the teat size. It was frustrating for me to learn on them and I don't have very big hands. I am actually going to get a manual milk machine because my hands fall asleep milking my does. I am going to be breeding my does to work towards more milkable teats because I think they are perfect goats otherwise. I also have not had full-sized goats so I don't have anything to compare them to however. The other reason I got Nigerians is because it would currently be hard for me to sell the wethers thinking they may be going into someone's freezer. I fully support and agree with raising animals for food. I just haven't turned that corner yet in my own program so I liked that idea that Nigerians wethers are small enough to be good pets. We spend a lot of time with ours and they are as friendly as a cat or dog. They just don't pee on the carpet or in your shoes when they get mad at you.

The fella wants meat goats, but I told him it would be hard for me to help birth a goat and then grow it out to kill it. I know that's weird considering I'm used to chickens and cute bunnies, but you don't have to potentially bottle feed chicks and bunnies. I mean, I guess some people have fostered rabbits but that's not a common thing to do. I may get to that point one day, but right now I'm too maternal. :)

I told him even though we don't have much land, we could probably get away with buying a "meat quality" wether a couple times a year and finish growing him out with whatever stock we have before sending him off. He wouldn't take up much space in the short time he's here. It's a bit pricier than birthing your own but again, kid sales would offset some of the costs I would think.

I did forget to add that they wouldn't be confined to a small 1/2 acre 100% of the time. We live on 1.3 acres but we utilize some of it as our backyard and the fella has a pretty huge garden planned out. We're fencing the entire property up so with supervision, they'll be allowed to get out and "weed-eat" with me! The neighboring yard is abandoned to the point of just being another acre of poison ivy and weeds. (Yes, we are trying to figure out how to buy it. The owners are hard to find.) I figured that can be free organic treat forage and it'll help clear it away!

I plan to allow them to have the garden in the off season as well so they can finish cleaning it up and fertilize it. My grandpa used to let chickens do this.

Will that help things work better? I want my goaties to be happy and healthy! The fella laughs at how excited I get. :gaptooth:

We have a herd of Nigerian Dwarfs. We don't worry too much about collecting milk, we'd much rather let the new kids have it.

For milk we have a couple of Sanaans, much easier to milk and good quality milk.

I'm not shy about expressing my dislike for Nigerians, for several different reasons. Some people who do like them seem to take that as a personal insult for some reason, so I'm glad to see that multiple others have experienced the small teat issue that I often mention as one of the common down sides to the breed.

Also be careful of the so-called mini breeds. These are nothing more than grades. Their size, type and production will be all over the map, and like any mongrel you won't be able to predict it unless you buy does that are in milk already. Either way they are not a pure breed, so don't be fooled into paying a lot of money for some that are represented that way. They have decades to go before they can be considered anywhere near stable as a breed.

You don't say where you are, but in the long run, 1/2 acre even for two does is not going to be a lot of good pasture, so most likely you will end up in a dry lot situation, or close to it. If you are in an area with a lot of rainfall, you can try to look into extensive rotational grazing to get the most out of it, but that requires a lot of fencing, and some knowledge of the practice, although it's not rocket surgery.

I recommend that you consider two normal sized dairy goats. It's much easier to find good milking lines. The work will be the same as for two mini goats, and the feed not much more. Lamanchas and Toggs tend to be on the smaller side as the breeds go, but there really is not much of a difference between handling them and Nigerians. The so-called mini Lamanchas are crossed with Nigerians, Pygmies and who knows what else, so their temperament is as likely to be as unpredictable as anything else about them, but certainly any Lamancha traits are very diluted at this point in their development.

That's because you usually open with something along the lines of "Nigerians/minis are USELESS!" Some people find them useful and just right for their situation. Some people don't. They exist as a breed for a reason. :shrug:

If you can get past that hurdle Kinders would be a great choice. Much easier to milk with all the milk qualities you're looking for. Just be selective about stock. The "root" stock needs to be a Nubian doe with good milking lines. And the sire should be a hardy, thrifty, meaty Pygmy from lines WITHOUT kidding problems. You have enough land to raise a Kinder wether for meat but not enough to reasonably raise a Boer or Kiko. Remember, the money in meat goats can only be had utilizing pasture. Its cost prohibitive to raise them on hay and grain, especially if you are purchasing one. The most efficient time to slaughter a wether is at weaning. Its very costly to bottle raise one, unless you have excess milk that is going to waste. And the growth curve drastically slows after weaning.

So if you are interested in milk and meat on limited land, you can't go wrong with Kinders if you chose the right stock.

We're in Southern Indiana, in the Ohio river valley. We live 1/2 mi from the river so things tend to stay cooler and wetter in our area. I know we will have to supplement them but my hope is that a pair would be okay.

I like the idea of NDs for their milk fat, but I've heard that La Manchas are pretty comparable. I've heard Saanens produce milk that is similar to 2% cows milk, and Nubians have conflicting reports of goaty tasting milk. Again, I'm just learning and asking for peer opinions! I welcome all sides. Learning what experienced goat owners like/dislike helps point us in the right direction. :)

Here's the skinny on milk... Milk fat varies depending on genetics, some lines and breeds are known for volume or milk fat, those are generalities. Taste is another matter. Milk should NOT taste goaty if it has been handled properly and a goat has proper nutrition including access to minerals. To this there are four exceptions. VERY rarely there are plants a goat has eaten that will cause an "off" taste, a temporary problem. Milk can also taste bad due to clinical or sub-clinical mastitis, also temporary. Late lactation milk is higher in somatic cells and will not keep as well, temporary. And finally, there are certain lines of goats that have been bred for specialty cheese making whose milk has a naturally higher lipase content. These goats are rare but could give some breed individuals a bad rap if an owner is unaware of the specifics of the goats lineage.

My Nigerian Toast milks extremely high butterfat milk (1/2 to 2/3 the jar will be cream after settling a few hours) so she gets to stick around. But I won't be keeping her kids as I have upgraded to minis for the bigger teats and more milk I will get.

I live on 3/4 acre so full size goats would be silly to have. I would only be able to keep two so I would have to pay to take my girls to a buck...who may or may not be tested clean. And I would have to pay more in feed when staggering freshening.

Unless you're a well known breeder around here, a grade goes for the same as a registered doe so I just plan on using my f4 mini Nubian buck on everybody and eating the boys.

No, I've never written that. That may be your understanding from the honest evaluation I give them as a breed, but I also think that I tend to hit a nerve among some folks who are into emotion based thinking rather than evidence based. For my part, one could hate the breeds that I like all they want and it wouldn't bother me a bit. I like what I like and I know what I know and no one is going to change my mind, because it's based on objective evaluation and not emotional attachment or belief in some fantasy that doesn't pan out in reality.

A very good overview of the state of things. Thanks for a dose of reality. The only thing that I would add is that there is always the possibility of a doe of any breed that just produces off flavored milk for whatever reason. It is uncommon, but it also happens in cows. Toggs seem to have been implicated more than other breeds in the past, but I haven't kept up with them lately.

Mini's are not allowed to have pygmy or any kind of meat goat blood. They are a cross between Lamancha and Nigerian dwarf. Period. The percent of each of the two breeds can vary, but they can't have other breeds in them.

Actually we have 3 oberhaslis, had 2 minitoggs and one nigerian. Honestly I would go with a oberhasli milking doe- ours was downsized from a dairy and never gave really more than 3/4 a gallon a day and that was plenty. Obers are one of the smaller standard breeds and so gentle- it was our minis that were the jumpers, and escape artists...
dairy goats have to be bred every year or so (I think ours would have milked through though, that is the genetics of dairy goat) and you can eat the offspring. Easy to milk and dont really eat that much. For company keep a NG dairy doe for comparison...

(Our obers are so sweet and gentle friendly and nice mannered)....

Well, MY opinion of Nigerian dwarf goats is from real, actual experience with them, and the ones that I have had have mostly been nice little goats. There is variation, as there is in any of the breeds, but, mine milk good on NO grain, which is an absolutely valuable asset to have. They are extremely hardy little goats, who live easily in all sorts of situations. They give really high butterfat, probably a cheesemaker's dream goat. ;) If you were to compare production from a ND per input costs, to most any full size goat, the nigerian wound win, hands down....so I say they are the better dairy animal. ;) At least the most economical.

If I were machine milking, I would LOVE to have NDs. Because you are right, their milk is a cheesemaker's dream. :) It's like having sheep's milk without having to deal with the sheep! :hobbyhors

I know, right? Tho I did milk a sheep for awhile once...she was sooo easy to train to the milkstand, unlike some of my brats. I do not wish to milk a sheep ever again though...they are so yucky and greasy and the one i milked had itsy bitsy teats that pointed into her thighs, ugh! I have seen tiny teats on large breed goats, and large teats on nigerians, but your right in thinking the teats usually match the goat. ;) However, it is much more frustrating to milk a saanen with large udder and small teats, than a nigerian with not as large an udder with small teats (ask me how I know)!!

I'm so excited! Thank you guys for everything!!

I have a lot of information to research and decisions to make. The fella is still bent on having meat goats as well so I think we're going to be researching various dual purpose breeds. I like the Obers and NDs so much but hopefully we can settle on a good compromise.

I think I could warm to the idea of sending our males to the freezer if I didn't do it. I've helped dress out goats before but I didn't know those goats. :) Once it's on the table, it's dinner and food for my family. Kinders are another great consideration that I'm now running by him as well.

Thank you guys for all of your help! I truly appreciate it. I'll probably have a ton more questions as I go along but for now, I know of some great breeds to read up on!

No advice for you on ND's etc. But some general info learned the hard way over the years.

Fence. Keeping goats inside an area an be challenging. But keeping dogs and other predators out is even more difficult. If you have a lot of neighbors around you will probably have dogs running loose. And they are the worst predators of goats that there is. Coyotes are also bad, but I think dogs are worse. Livestock panels make good goat and dog proof fences.

Shelter. If you have a shed for your goats that opens to the south, and their pen is on the south it will stay drier in wet weather, and will be better shelter when the cold wind blows from the north and west. If you have a shade tree on the west side of the pen (but outside or the goats may kill it) they will get shade in the afternoons.

Water. Goats are picky about their water. You should have a convenient way to supply them with fresh water, year round. A buried water line going to a freeze proof hydrant near their pen is a very good idea.

Are you recommending livestock panels for perimeter fencing or interior fencing? We're currently researching perimeter fencing right now and trying to decide if no climb horse fence would be a good choice for the perimeter.

We already have a few cattle panels for the interior fencing to separate the "yard" from the pasture that came with the property so those will help out.

Cattle panel fencing is easier to put up. 2x4 fencing will keep heads from being put through the openings. And if you have the smaller goats, kids may be able to go through the cattle panels. Either way, its a good idea to put a strand of hot wire along the fence so they don't stand on the fence. Goats are hard on fencing, buildings, etc..:)

I agree completely.

As far as small spaces go, I have 1 acre total, and probably 2/3 of that is in pasture and able to be grazed. The permanent pasture is about 1/3 ac and I use electric net fence to move them around the other areas. I have 3 adult goats, 4 adult ewes, and 3 lambs right now. Yes, they are in a "sacrifice area" most of the winter, but in the spring/summer/fall they're on pasture for the majority of the time unless we have a severe drought. I work really hard to rotate them around and use as much of the grass as I can. It's definitely do-able on small acreage.

Livestock panels (the ones with 4" squares top to bottom) make great goat and dog fences. They are expensive, but very strong and easy to put up. You just need T posts, mostly, since you're not stretching the fence against the posts. The "cattle panels" with big holes at the top and small holes at the bottom are not a good idea around horned goats. They can get their stupid heads caught in the fence. The horse fence might be a good choice (cheaper), but it's going to require strong corner post assemblies. I've used railroad ties to make double H corners for stretched fence, and they work well for that (very strong and rot resistant). But OMG they are heavy and it's a lot of work digging the post holes and building these corners. I wouldn't think ND goats standing on fences would be much of an issue (or is it?). It sure is for full sized goats, tho. They will really tear up a fence if it's not really strong, or if you don't go to the trouble and expense of putting up a hot wire to keep them off the fence. My 200 lb packgoat wethers stand up on my livestock panel fence all the time, and there's no sign of damage at all. I also run a 3 ft high section of chicken wire along the bottom of the livestock panels, hog ringing it in place. This keeps chickens in, and rabbits, skunks, etc out.

Re your question about having enough pasture for the goats... you may not be able to let the eat all the time out there, but whenever they do they will be getting some very good food and some exercise. Goats were designed to browse on lots of different things, and it's really good for them if they can. Some days they will eat certain plants, other days they will eat something else. Their bodies know what they need, and which plants have what they need. In some areas you have to know about certain poisonous plants and get rid of them. Where I live my goats eat whatever they want and have never been sick from any of it. I guess they know what is good for them and what isn't. Unfortunately, they really love rose bushes, fruit trees, pine trees, Swiss chard, lettuce, etc. So you will have to fortify your garden and yard area to keep them out.

Let's not argue about if small goats are good, bad, or indifferent. All goats have there place. Everybody has a different need.

If I were going to do the 1/2 acre with two goats. Here are my thoughts. I would make a small enclosure that is moveable, enough for two or three days worth of eating. I would also build a shelter on wheels big enough for said two goats plus their kids. Then you could move the enclosure as needed around the 1/2 acre and your yard so that you are able to rotate them around to fresh grazing/browse often. It keeps the parasite load down, allows the area to grow back, and improves the grazing over time. Plus you have less manure to clean out of the barn. If you need more food for them to eat, you could also look into growing fodder for them. If growing fodder is too much work, you could sprout grains instead. You could also ask the local tree trimming people for some of their brush trimmings(as long as it hasn't been sprayed). Where there is a will, there is a way:)

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...ft-l-x-50-in-h

Are these what you guys are referring to? These are the cheapest I found. The "goat" panels at TS were like $60 for the same size. If these are what you guys are referring to, then that's pretty comparable in cost to what "goat fencing" and all the posts would be. I could totally do that and I like the idea of them not being permanent.

Paintedpony, I really like that idea. We definitely do want to put up perimeter fencing but that would really help and they give great free fertilizer!! We're currently building a mobile chicken coop on an old utility trailer we bought off of Craigslist for $100. The coop itself is nearly free thanks to found materials like pallets and dresser drawer brood boxes. It'll get wheeled around the property and plopped down in different spots so they can free range.

Do you think goats would benefit from a similar, but bigger design? Would I need to create separate enclosures for does and kids? That could really work well, with the right type of mobile building!

I couldn't get the link to open, so can't comment on that.

Yes, the utility trailer would be great. As long as it's one that has the metal grid and not solid wood so the poo can go through the holes. You can also put rain gutter on the roof and collect water for the goats to drink with and auto water in a small bucket. As for separating the kids, that is dependent on how you want to manage milking, and for how long. If you want to milk once a day, lock them up in the barn at night. Milk the does, then let all of them out to the enclosure for the day. If you want to bottle feed the kids, you'll have to have a kid pen. But, you have to decide what you want to do with the kids in advance. Raise them up for the freezer? sell them young? All that will depend on if your land can handle feeding the two does plus the weaned kids.

I like that! A mobile goat shack. :) I'll start keeping my eye out on CL for a good sized one. We bought a simple 5x8 wood floor one for the hens but we had some old linoleum in the garage that I'm sticking down on it. I'll be on the look out for mesh ones at a decent price.

I know dam raising can make for wilder kids but barring an emergency, I was planning on letting Momma do her thing because I work full time. The fella does work a bit later than me and can pick up bottle feedings after I leave in the morning but there'd still be a gap of about 5-6 hours between feedings during the day. My mom is nearby and knowledgeable of bottle feeding babies of all sorts, but unless it's an orphaned kid, she's probably not going to volunteer herself to go over and pick up a feeding. :) So for that, we'll need to work out another area for our "maternity ward".

I would think we'd have a whole other year to decide that, though. We plan to get little doelings in the spring and raise them so that they're well socialized. It'll take awhile for them to grow up and be ready to freshen!

Here are the panels I use

http://stockyardsupply.com/index.php...ck-hog-panels/

The 4"x4" x 5 ft high x 20 feet long panels. 5 feet high gives you better dog protection than the usual 4 feet high panels.

You would have to shop around your local feed stores and fence supply places to find them.

At corners, instead of attaching them at 90 degree angles, I prefer to bend one panel around in an arc, using several T posts to guide it around. I think it makes a much stronger corner than 2 panels tied to a post at a corner. I overlap each panel with its neighbor by 6" or so, and wire them securely to a T post. Then 2 more T posts between the ends. For extra stiffness and strength you can drive a T post into the ground at a 45 degree angle, inside the fence line, and wire it to the upright T post at each junction of panels. For additional dog protection you can string a strand of barbed wire along 6 inches or so above the panels, wired to the T posts. If you think dogs might dig under your fence you can lay some old woven fence wire flat on the ground outside the fence, and hog ring it to the bottom of your fence panels. If a dog tries to dig under he will dig right where the panel touches the ground, and just be digging, fruitlessly, at the fence wire.

You may be lucky and not have neighborhood dog problems. But don't count on it. For now, I am lucky about that. But we will always have coyotes. And javelinas (not really predators, but they will kill chickens and destroy a garden). Bears, bob cats, and mountain lions are another story, but I doubt if you have to worry about them in Indiana.

I think this is covered by the lipase statement... it happens in cows too but due to pasteurization, we rarely notice. It doesn't come out of them bad tasting, but a few short hours after being chilled it does.

My French alpine does have this problem. We don't mind pasteurized so it's not a big deal.

Our feedstore has the livestock rigid panels for much cheaper than TSC... they are nice for being able to move them down, we have them in the middle (dividing between the pasture and the back yard) of our perimeter fencing for ease of movement- if we need to get a truck through there (septic, etc) we just take a panel out ... easy....
we have both the cattle panels and the hog(?) panels that are graduated (feedstore threw some in on our order, we just put them upside down or our stupid chickens cant figure out how to climb through to get to the pasture)-
be aware though that a ND kid can easily fit thru those panels until they grow out some maybe around age 5 -6 months)....
We have tight woven wire about 5ft high for our perimeter fencing it works great....
Also our goats do not go anywhere near their shed on these hot summer days/ nights (although it thankfully drops down into 60s ) they sleep out in the field or under the willows- only in wet/snowy winter will they shelter in the shed....

Oh and I forget the specifics of your homestead- even if only an acre, you could still get a dog, getting a pup at the time you get your goats so it grows up used to them is good timing (not saying to have pup stay with the goats, I dont think thats ideal on small acreage- we have only 2 acres ourselves)....
We have an anatolian-pyr pup that is our farm guard (he gets jealous of the goats and will nip at the wether if he gets too pushy and I a lovin' on him too much) but he d/t his defensive drives, he is up all night and will go into the goat pasture at nights to patrol if he hears anything.
He is intact and between him and our neutered Berner- (very territorial, we had to have him neutered to mediate his aggression) no dogs are allowed to enter- I didnt even realize there were roaming packs of dogs initially until these guys went to work....

Pm'd you!

I have NDs and they're fabulous! So far we haven't gotten the hang of milking, but it tastes delicious!

Just wanted to follow up and say I still haven't decided and I'm so glad I have months before I need to.

Oberhaslis, Kinders, and NDs are all at the top of the list though..

I know technically you can cull any breed and we may go that route simply because we don't *need* 120 lbs of boer goat all at once. We only eat meat 3-4 times a week now and goats won't be our only meat animal.

So thank you all! I appreciate it! You've really given me some insight on some good "compact" size goats to choose from! :)