Oreo is just not right.....and I am sick about it.

From a thread on this forum in 2011. Post was written by me.

I'm digging for facts, so this post will be updated as I find things. The basic theme that I'm finding is that Corid works in the intestines to inhibit growth of coccidia. AT NORMAL DOSING, not enough is absorbed by the goat to affect Thiamine metabolism in the goat.

http://www.corid.com/corid_products.html
(Yes, I know this is the manufacturer' webste. I had to start some where.)
How CORID works
Structurally, CORID mimics thiamin (Vitamin B1) which is required by coccidia for normal growth and reproduction. When coccidia ingest CORID, they experience thiamin deficiency and starve from malnutrition. CORID has been experimentally administered at many times the recommended dosage and duration with no signs of toxicity.

When CORID works
CORID stops coccidia at a critical stage in the host animal's small intestine to prevent more damaging coccidiosis in the large intestine. By acting on the young asexual stages of the coccidia life cycle, CORID allows exposure to first-generation schizonts, so the host animal can develop natural immunity to coccidia. This makes CORID effective as a preventive therapy.

Me again:
When reading on alpaca and elephant health care websites, I'm finding some discussion of giving B complex or thiamine injections while treating with Corid, but this apparently defeats the chemical process necessary to reduce coccidia in the gut, as it provide excess thiamine to the parasites, and they aren't affected by the Corid.

I looked at the Tennessee Meat Goats website, and their recommendation of using Corid in the drinking water is absolutely the OPPOSITE of the general understanding of how to use this product. If used that way, you have NO way of determining which goats consumed adequate dosing and which turned up their noses at the weird water. That method of administration is NOT recommended by any of the goat websites that I trust.

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Alice
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"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Maybe the key is to wait and give the thiamine only after Corid has had some time to act on the schizonts. It sounds like the OP is finished with the Corid treatments, so the thiamine would do him some good now. I would do a fecal to count the cocci before giving him any more Corid in his condition.

This is what I would do.
1/2 cc BoSe
Pea size amount of replamin plus on roof of mouth and repeat daily until better.
5cc probios.
1 cc of cydectin pour on for cattle orally
1 cc toltrazuril per 5.5 lbs

I get to the point that I'm either going to cure them or kill them. I didn't read that you wormed him yet. I worm the first time at 4 weeks. (Cydectin)

Disclaimer: this is my first Nubian Kidding season. I lost one baby that looked like it got squished. I had one born dead. I've had............ummmmmm lost count........30 (guess) healthy babies so far. I treated every kid I sold with toltrazuril before they left and told the buyers to feed whole milk and no one has lost a kid on me. I currently have 13 on the lambars and they are doing awesome.

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Here's the thread about the esophageal groove...
Kids and drinking from a bucket

the pdf was particularly informative... makes me wonder if there is something in his throat or the way he is feeding that is confounding his condition. He seems to have weak and poor coordination, it makes sense that what ever is causing his general weakness is also affecting his ability to eat and digest. Muscle coordination affects digestion. A vicious cycle. I agree with the suggestion of White Muscle Disease.

Attached Files

esophageal groove.pdf (200.6 KB, 0 views)

I've done the kitchen sink approach with goats too. It works. And it saves time. Watching the video, he is already looking weak, so I'd do a little at a time. Stress decreases resilience and immunity.
If it is not a congenital thing, it may be as simple as the changing of the nipple. When I brought my girls home they tried and tried to drink milk but couldn't and would grab straw and eat that (you mentioned him running for the hay). When I changed the nipple to what the breeder told me she was using, they immediately took to the bottle. It had been less than 24 hours since they last had a good belly full. When I changed the milk to store bought, they noticed too but the transition was gradual so it didn't put them off.
Baby goats are not as tough as the adult goats - actually adult goats seem to be tough in some ways and fragile in others.
So I'd go with injectables to anything suggested, if available, to prevent any further upset to his tummy. I'd switch to cows milk or goat's milk if that is not what he is on. And I offer every kind of nipple I could get my hands on. And add probios and vits suggested and baking soda free choice. He looks weak but if it isn't congenital I'd venture that he's weakened by not getting enough milk and having a tummy ache.
my disclaimer is that I've been out of the loop for several years and I've forgotten more than I used to know, which wasn't all that much to begin with. I hope he pulls through for you.

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Tiny Forest ~ my tiny blog

Nothing too helpful to add, but I had some difficult time with my kids last year. They just never were too healthy and bouncy so I know how difficult it can be to watch them struggle to thrive. I think you've gotten some great advice, and I'll be sending you and Oreo all the good vibes I can!

I don't have nearly as much experience as the others that posted great info for you, but I do have a *little* something to add. We nearly lost a goat a short while back and the "kitchen sink" approach resonates with me now. What ended up doing the trick and saving her was a cocktail that I mixed and gave to her twice a day...

It was molasses, CMPK, red raspberry leaf tea (to help the smooth muscles of her digestive tract function correctly), probiotics, sublingual B-12 (from the grocery store) and once I had that mixed up I doubled it in volume by adding pedialyte. She wouldn't eat or drink at all so I had to use a big syringe to shoot it down her gullet for the first few days.

I have NO idea if that would be advisable in this situation, but I swore to myself the first day that the doe started eating again, I'd keep that recipe on hand and use it/share it a.s.a.p. the next time it might be needed.

For me, I have no vets that treat goats any where close to where I am, it was a weekend so getting a vet to make a ranch call on a weekend up to my place would have been totally out of what is reasonable (even though, don't tell my husband, I almost tried it anyway). What I did have was another, very experienced goat breeder's cell phone number so she came over to help me figure it out and we brainstormed how to get the goat what she needed with what I had on hand or could get in town. I had to drive one more town over for the liquid B vitamins, so I will sheepishly admit, the doe got her first dose of the cocktail with half of a 5 hour energy type B vitamin drink. My breeder friend said she would do it if it were her doe, as she looked as though if I didn't do something quickly, she was going to die before I could even get a vet out anyway.

Also, if you are having a hard time finding selenium and vitamin e, your feed store may have it in a gel. I get the oral gel either from my local place or order it, from Jeffers. Here's a link so you can recognize the package. http://www.jefferspet.com/selenium-v...iv/cp/0030913/ The injectable might be a better choice since I'd guess it to have a faster uptake time, but if you're in a bind and can get the gel, you may want to go for it.

I have a doe who is refusing to eat much at all. This may be worth a try!!

__________________
Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

The suggestions about the milk ending up in the rumen makes sense. I have been more careful about how I hold his bottle and it does now seem that his tummy doesn't swell as much where his rumen is at feeding time. I still think the problem goes back to selenium deficiency; the weak suckle, droopy ears, weak pasterns, slight stiffness in the rear legs. Anywho....still waitin on the vet.

Would it hurt to give him the B vitamins and selenium while you wait for the vet? I think those might be safe to go ahead and dose him with and see if it helps...

No it wouldn't hurt, but neither of those products are available at the feed stores near me. I would have to order from Jeffers (which I will probably do any way....for next time they might be needed).

Selenium, vitamin E and B vitamins are all things you can grab at a health food store or the grocery store, or probably even Walmart. They have them at our Grocery Outlet. I know it would be expensive to dose a lot of goats that way, but for just one, it's pretty cheap.

The B-12 that I used is a liquid... comes with a dropper that measures out 1 ml. If you get a capsule for the vitamin E and the selenium, they can be crushed and snuck into a tiny peanut butter sandwich or something. You're still ahead of the game if he's eating

I would do like Doug Hodges suggested with the exception of the Replamin plus gel. I'd do it once along with everything else but not daily.

I'd also be putting a little baking soda in 1 bottle everyday.
Hope you can get the med's you need from the vet.

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