do you prefer do dam raise or bottle raise your babies?
 

I have nubians and plan to use some of the milk this year for my family. Do you dam raise or bottle raise your babies? Should I milk once a day and let the babies have access to mom the rest of the day? I'm not quite sure how this is done! thanks.

I'm new at this myself. This years kids will be my second set.

What I did last year was keep them in a stall and let them nurse twice a day on a dam- one doe refused to allow anyone to nurse, one only allowed her buck and another's buck, and the third allowed only her doe and another doe!

I later put everyone together when one doe refused to allow anyone to nurse and the bucks were on a bottle. Later I couldn't figure out why my heavy milking doe who wouldn't allow anyone to nurse was dry! I caught her in the pasture allowing both does to nurse!

Long story short- I had a heck of a time weaning them.

Since three milkers are going back to their original home this year, I'll only be milking the two f1 MiniManchas. I think I will bottle feed all.

I prefer to dam raise. Kids are not obnoxious little monsters, but are friendly. I like to shut kids up at night and milk in morning, then let kids out to be and learn from mom the rest of the day.

That sounds like a good plan for me with the milking in the morning...do you get a lot of milk this way?

I get about half what the doe is producing. If you were bottle feeding, you'd still only get about half, the other half going to the kids. Only it's from a bottle and not an udder. Just make sure your not late for the morning milkings because the doe will get full overnight.

I also prefer to dam raise and keep the kids off at night and milk in the morning. I don't have a large herd though and I test yearly. I plan to close my herd as soon as I believe I have enough genetics to do so.

I also have very friendly and personable does and would never keep a doe who helped her kids be too wild. I don't have any issues with standoffish kids (so far), they are all crawl in your lap types.

And, because I don't pull the kids off I can go away for a day or two by letting the kids have full access to their moms instead of separating them.

Awesome sounds great! So about how many hours can you allow between taking the kids away and the morning milking? I'm a nurse and work night shift 12 hours so I don't get home until 8 am... My husband could seperate the kids before going to bed if need be. That would be around 9...making 11 hours with no milking

That's perfect!

Great! I was afraid that would be too long for te kids to be separated! Thanks so much!!

We milk share. At night the kids are separated and the does are milked out in the morning. After milking the kids are put back out with their dam until night again. At 10 weeks when we wean, they go into a separate pen across the street (Used to put them in a pen right by their dams but they kept sucking through the fence.). Then we milk twice a day till we decide to dry them up.

I pull kids from the dairies. I *hate* dam raised kids. I do not have time to tame dam raised kids, and the only guaranteed way to tame them is to bottle raise them. We sold the boer herd but most of those were wild and untame - but I don't work with them all the time so that was fine. Plus we do milk shares and I like doing DHIR. I *know* there are other ways to do it by pulling kids but I'm not willing to do all that. I think bottle raising is far easier. Easier for coccidia prevention - both treatment and prevention - , raising them in the kid pen and free choice grain, selling them as early as 2 weeks old (or younger for bucks), I know how much the does are producing and I have to share less milk... works great for me.

I prefer to bottle raise. That way I can sell the kids on the bottle if I want. It also makes them think of me as mom which allows me to do thing like trim hooves, etc, easier. I can't stand a wild goat & I have never had a dam raised one that was tame. I just do not have the time to spend with them like neded to tame them down.

We're odd here ! We do not dam raise...we spend hours and hours feeding babies...lol
It is true that it is lots more work and the benefit is this: 1) the kids are way attached to us...not just friendly, but really attached to humans 2) because we pasteurize the milk and heat treat the colostrum (even though our herd tests free of CAE year after year) the chances of the kids getting CAE is further reduced. HOWEVER, we are probably making some changes after this year. Both my husband and I are in our 70's and we are looking to cut back to 2 or 3 does and 1 buck after this year. If we do that, we will probably start letting the girls raise more than just bucklings for meat. If that happens, we will still milk the girls once a day and let the kids stay with them the rest of the time. We have had to milk a doe with young kids in the past due to needing to feed a rejected kid, it is not a problem. The more you milk the more they produce usually.

I dam raise. I hate bottle feeding more than anything and bottle fed kids are soooooo clingy and demanding. More so than your average goat, which is saying something. :) I do train them to the bottle by feeding them from the bottle every morning for a week or so. That way if someone wants a bottle baby, they can have it. The only thing I bottle raise personally is doelings from one particular goat that I want replacements from. Unfortunately, she NEVER weans, so anything I want to keep, I bottle raise.

Either way seems to work beautifully depending on individual needs and preferences.

With my hours I feel like bottle feeding would take away from the time that I have with my goats...u work 7 on/7off so when I am working those straight 7 nights it would be tough to milk them all then feed all the babies!!! On my 7 days off it would be a breeze...I'm not sure what would be best 😔

There are plus and minus signs all over the place! lol Do what works for you and do NOT put a guilt trip on yourself!! The people responding here are all good goat people - they just have different approaches and different reasons for those approaches.

Thanks for everyone's input!!! Guess we will figure out what works for us sooner or later!

Ok I know this is completely off topic BUT have y'all heard anything about ADM dairy goat pellets? Or is Noble Goat Dairy Parlor a better choice?

I do a combination. I let the kids on for the first two weeks then pull them completely and bottle feed. After the fourth day I milk out the Mom twice a day. I've found that milking her out at this time encourages her to make more milk after the kid is pulled. Most times the kids take to the bottle very quickly, but I have had a few that refuse. When this happens, I allow the kid to nurse for a few minutes before I milk out the doe. In using this method, my kids always get off to a good start, I can bring more milk into the house sooner, and the kids end up being tame.

As you can see there are a variety of ways to manage your dairy girls. Whatever your schedule and whatever else going on in your life there will be a way that you try and form to fit. And the rewards are magnificent. I love my goats.

Generally the dam raised kids are wild until a year old then they warm up to us. sounds like a long time but it really isn't. last years kids are letting me pet them now. However we did have a few that didn't warm up so they were culled.

I can't bottle raise because my tendency to get attached. Its okay if i bottle feed girls, but the boys i just cant handle. I get rid of all boys and thats hard especially if they are so friendly. Its easier if they are wild to sell/eat.

the one thing that I hate most about dam raising and wild kids is the chores every single night. I have to catch them and separate them. CATCH them. :ogre: I might be chasing them for an hour or two. Finally got smart last year and built a little chute deal, would chase them into that and get them. The thing i do like is if i have to go somewhere in the morning i can leave the kids on and not have to milk.

I dam raise but handle the kids daily at least twice. They always end up as the sweetest little things. I don't expect to ever bottle raise as I see it as sort of a waste.

I don't see how people think bottle feeding is way more work. Takes us a few minutes every feeding, about 3x per day. We bucket feed 3x per day. Way less time than it takes to tame dam raised kids. :) It makes the whole management system way easier, IMO.

It takes 10 minutes a day to have friendly dam raised kids. I bottle raised kids two years, and after having 20 kids to bottle feed that last time, I said never again. If that's what YOU want to do that's great. NONE of my dam raised kids were EVER wild.

Well, it might not take up as much time, but just the fact that it has to be a daily schedule turns me off. When you are just petting them and hugging them twice a day for 8 minutes, you don't have a certain time to do it. Whether it's at 12:00 a.m or 4:30 a.m! I'm too busy to go out and feed kids at certain times. And getting the bottles ready takes up a lot of time, too. I would think getting bottles ready for 10+ kids takes at least 8 minutes, and then the extra 7 minutes of feeding. 15 minutes is not so bad, so the time difference isn't what gets me, it's just that you have to be ON time.

Oh, and the loudness! Kids aren't loud (at least with my experience) if they are with their momma because there's a walking milk machine free for them to drink out of at any time. But whenever we had bottle-raised anything, the noise was just endless.

This is only my opinion. I will say that I usually enjoy bottle raised personalities more (unless they turn out rude or TOO pushy), but otherwise I just like the momma+baby thing. I also think it is better for ANY animal to be with it's mom when young, because it's just natural and the way it always has been.

It takes a lot if interaction for the first 48 hours. This is the imprinting period. After that, if only takes a few minutes each day to maintain. It's not hard to give them a few minutes interaction every morning when you let them out and that's all it takes. When they get old enough for grain, then they are all over you. :D

Well, I am old and I think that it takes real sacrifice to hand raise kids! So there!! lol
Actually, those first two days when they are being fed every couple of hours and there are usually at least 5 of them around here...if not more...it seems like you just go to bed and you are up again! After that it moves pretty quickly to 4 times a day...but again, with 10 or 12 to bottle, it seems like one feeding runs into another. We use the gray bucket nipples right off the bat and try to get them on the bucket by 3 weeks...THEN it gets much easier!! As I said "WE ARE OLD" and that makes a difference...trust me, it does!

I bottle raise from the get go usually and i do not get up every 2 hours to feed them and they still do great. I just feed them as often as they want while im awake the first day and make sure to do one right before bed and right when i get up--if born late in the day i will wake up ONCE in the night to feed. By the second or third day, i generally feed 4x a day down to 3x at a week old then to 2x at a month.

Neither - I use a lambar ;)

Really, you just have to try both and see what you like. I dam raised in the beginning, because I wanted to do things naturally. After the first 2 years, I didn't have the patients for it any more and switched to bottle feeding because it was just way easier and worked better for me.

Right now we dam raise (but have the ability to bottle should we NEED to)
We just have too much going on personally to be tied down to it. Now
that being said, we're out there as often as if we were bottle feeding, lol
just don't HAVE to be should something come up and we're unavailable.

We handle daily and yes, they're often shy - but it doesn't take long for
them to come around.
We start pulling at 2-3 weeks for over night(we'll probably go 3 wks this time with mama's trips) and milk in the morning, she gets them the rest of the time. It's plenty enough milk for them and us :)

That's what's working for us - for now! :happy2:

I've dam raised so far and haven't had any yet that are remotely unfriendly. I just don't see how it is even possible...seems like they come out of the womb wanting to be attached to us. Of course, I have a very small herd and started with friendly goats, so that might make a difference.

I bottle fed three bucklings last year for a week (because I was selling them) and vowed to never do that again. I absolutely despised it!

I'm not sure what I'm going to do this year. I plan to sell all of the doelings, so I suppose I'll have to bottle feed them so I can sell them young. The bucklings, however, are going to be raised for meat. I'd like to keep them on their dams, but I'm afraid the boys will be rough on the udders. Anyone have experience with that?

I have never had any trouble with bucklings and udder issues. The only udder issue related to nursing was once when I grafted a lamb onto a doe. Never again!

If you think you might be able to sell doelings as bottle babies but don't like bottle feeding, a middle road that works for me is to start separating the babies at 1 week old. Then I bottle feed them in the morning before turning out with mom. They learn to eat from a bottle (usually fairly easy, but not always) that way but aren't dependent on it and it's not too much of a hassle. After they have the hang of it, usually a couple days, if you skip once in a while, it's fine. I've even gone to twice a week bottle feedings after they get the hang of it. They don't seem to forget once they have it in their heads and goatlings are ALWAYS up for a meal! :)

Usually ours are born in the middle of the night. Our girls believe that is the only time to deliver kids! Due to the fact that we want to get the colostrum in the kids within the first 12 hours and also due to the fact that our kids do not take big amounts right off the bat, we feed frequently during the first night and the next day. The kids are inside the house in a crib in our bedroom for the first 24-36 hours. Then they move downstairs to the big dog cages for a few days (weeks!) depending on the weather. There is feeding, cleaning up the bedding and usually more birthing to attend. It is a very busy time without much sleep here. I used the word "sacrifice" and I want to explain that. ALL good breeders give lots of time and care to the animals they are raising...particularly the little babies and that is a "sacrifice" of time and energy to make sure that their stock is healthy and happy. Well worth it!! At our age we are slowing down and not able to move as quickly as we used to do...so, we are considering our options while still maintaining good care. I believe that leaving the kids on their dam will definitely cut down on the time and work involved and while others see that differently...I hope you are wrong!!! lol

I think it's more how you dam raise or bottle raise. If you spend a lot of time with your animals, they'll be nice and friendly no matter how you raise them. If you tend to only go out to feed and milk, bottle raising almost becomes a necessity to have friendly animals. I don't think either way is bad. Goats are infinitely adaptable! And easily tweakable, management wise. I tried several different approaches before I found what works for me in my current circumstances. If I had to work outside the home and wanted friendly babies, I'd probably bottle raise. Dam raising may take more time, but is less work. It's very hard to sell goats here period, so I don't usually even bother with the boys or doelings from less desirable breedings. They stay on their mom and I never have anything to do with them, attention wise, til it's time to butcher.

We have always bottle fed for the most part :)

I bottle raise my kids though some years I have dam raised. If I am keeping a kid back I bottle raise them, I will never keep a dam raised animal again if I can help it.

I bottle raise not to have them friendly because I agree you can have friendly dam raised babies. I bottle raise because I want them to TRUST me. I have yet to meet a friendly dam raised doe or buck that fully trusts you which makes it very difficult to work with them. Bottle raised do tend to be on the friendlier range but like I said I have met some dam raised that where friendly.

I just on the whole prefer a bottle kid to a dam kid. They are so much easier to work with and if they ever get scared or stressed they run to you instead of away from you. But it is different strokes for different folkes :). You have to find what works best for you and your herd.

Justine

This also all depends on the animal and the person they are interacting with. I haven't had an issue with trust with my dam raised animals. The key being MY dam raised animals. I spend lots of time with them and, since I walk to the mail most days, take the babies individually with me often. They learn that I will protect them from the neighbors dogs. I actually haven't had experience with other people's dam raised animals so can't speak there. I have had repeat buyers for my dam raised babies.

On the other hand, I have had 2 bottle babies that were wild as march hares. Both came from largish scale breeders that used a lambar. Both animals would come to you for food, but not for anything else. I personally think both animals are partially that way anyway and would still be skittish if raised with lots of attention. Just the way they were and they were definitely not the norm for bottle babies. Or any human habituated goat.

That's why I like it when people give more details about how, when, where, why, etc. It helps others (me) decide how to do or adapt things to individual circumstances. Everyone's will be different. The way I do things won't work for everybody, but someone may look at what I do and find one facet of it that does work for them. That's how I work, a hodgepodge of other people's methods as well as trial and error.

Aren't goats fun?! ;)

I agree and I think the personality of the animal comes into play. I have had some kids that where born naturally friendly and you would never know where bottle raised. I have had a few bottle raised kids that where wilder than march hares for the most part.

It is all about what works for each person and their herd :). But I know for me personality comes into play just as much as bottle raising. Can't go against how they where wired to begin with sometimes ;).

Justine

We also let the dams raise their babies, NEVER had problems with wild kids. Our goats come in the barn every night and we can play with the babies...it does help that the moms are super friendly......Nubians. We are going to be milking more this year so are going to separate nights at 2 weeks old and just milk in the morning. Also, this allows each doe to get her share of the grain at least once a day on the milk stand. Can also have a good "look see" each day, hoofs etc.
Each person's situation is different. I am retired now and have more time for making, yogurt, soap, cheese etc. Starting to milk sheep too so this schedule makes a nice fit with the sheep.

The thing that bothers me most about dam-raising dairy goats is the dams not weaning their dang kids!! I have separated for months and they still went back to nursing! I had one doe I ended up selling. I separated her from her dam for a couple months, and she went back to nursing...I think she was about 8 months old; then separated her again until the dam was dry. She wasn't nursing at that time. I left her in the barn with her dam when the dam was in labor to keep her company, BAD idea!! The doeling (by that time nearly 1 year old), nursed out most of her dam's colostrum, and the dam had quads!!!! Luckily I noticed a couple hours before the birth, and re-separated them and she's a heavy milker, so she did have some colostrum for babies, but EEK! That yearling had her first kids around 14-15 months old, and I tried seeing if I left her kids on her, if she would stop nursing her dam...NOPE! Her kids would nurse her while she nursed her mom, it was terrible! LOL. I don't think most are quite that bad, but I have dam-raised others and they didn't seem to want to wean either. On the other hand, my most recent kids were on their dam for about a week because I was leaving town shortly after they were born, and the buckling was refusing the bottle for the most part. Three days later, I tried to give him back to her, and she would have nothing to do with him, so it was bottle or starve. I had to teach him by restraining her in a stand and covering her teats while giving him the bottle...