Who disbuds for you??

Cannon_Farms · #21 01/05/14, 12:13 PM

I have nerve damage in my hands so I am not going to handle something that hot and dangerous and have a dropsi moment.
I use a man that has a large herd of show Nigerians and is also an ADGA judge he does a great job and never leaves scurs and is quick. I see most kids getting more upset because we are shaving their heads and putting them in the restraint box. I really think its cruel when people do 3 and four burns to get that "copper" ring

I love my goat vet hes great but one of the things that terrified me was when I watched him disbud a goat kid, I too dont believe that putting them under is the lesser of the two evils especially when the kids get set back into their pens and go to drinking milk and bouncing off the side walls.\

Here is a link to a video from my guy doing a nigerian buckling

Cannon_Farms · #22 01/05/14, 12:14 PM

heres a buck kid being done, notice the second half ring thats how you keep the bucks from scurs and stinking as bad, they still stink but just not as bad. Notice how both of these videos are under 45 seconds and its done, kids go back to doing whatever they did before.
Please practice on a watermelon or some spaghetti squash to get the feel of your iron

**mygoat** · #23 01/05/14, 02:22 PM

I do mine too, but I'd try to ask a few breeders in your area if they'll do it or what vet will do it. If you're in Michigan, bring 'em on over to my place.

I do not do anesthesia and will only put a goat under if absolutely necessary. I do know some vets that try to block nerves using lidocaine injections in the head. A vet at MSU taught me where to give it but it's Rx and of course my vets won't sell me a bottle, but I'd use it if I could. The calves he was doing seemed to mostly fight the restraint... and you could tell when the blocking didn't work, too - quite a significant difference. well, I've been doing disbudding and tattooing without it for many many years and they really do just shake it off and continue on with their lives almost immediately after disbudding. After tattooing, though, their ears are tender for several days and they hate them touched... but they love a good disbudding site itch within minutes.

jlagee · #24 01/05/14, 02:44 PM

Thanks so much all!! I feel so welcome as a new member to this group!! :-)

I am in Maryland but I won't have my babies until 6-8 weeks old so I have to have them done while they are still at the sellers house. He is a close friend of a close friend so he will let me over to visit whenever I want :-)

I will definitely check with local goat owners and then vets will be my second choice - I am right there with the other softies ;-) I don't think I could ever do it myself!!!

copperkid3 · #25 01/05/14, 03:51 PM

when would be a good time to bring them by? Got those (3) doelings born right at
and just before Christmas and would really like to get the herd back to being free of
unnecessary headgear again. We used to do it in the past, but that stuff disappeared
over the past decade and I wouldn't have much of a clue on how to do it now.
And until this snowstorm quits and they clear the roads,
it will take some doing just to get to your place!
+ + + + + + +

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

I do mine too, but I'd try to ask a few breeders in your area if they'll do it or what vet will do it. If you're in Michigan, bring 'em on over to my place.

I do not do anesthesia and will only put a goat under if absolutely necessary. I do know some vets that try to block nerves using lidocaine injections in the head. A vet at MSU taught me where to give it but it's Rx and of course my vets won't sell me a bottle, but I'd use it if I could. The calves he was doing seemed to mostly fight the restraint... and you could tell when the blocking didn't work, too - quite a significant difference. well, I've been doing disbudding and tattooing without it for many many years and they really do just shake it off and continue on with their lives almost immediately after disbudding. After tattooing, though, their ears are tender for several days and they hate them touched... but they love a good disbudding site itch within minutes.

**mygoat** · #26 01/05/14, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperkid3

when would be a good time to bring them by? Got those (3) doelings born right at
and just before Christmas and would really like to get the herd back to being free of
unnecessary headgear again. We used to do it in the past, but that stuff disappeared
over the past decade and I wouldn't have much of a clue on how to do it now.
And until this snowstorm quits and they clear the roads,
it will take some doing just to get to your place!
+ + + + + + +

I'll be gone Weds-Sun this week... I've done quite old kids, a few months old - while far from ideal, I did a pretty good job - the proof is currently owned by a friend of mine but they're in my pasture getting bred to my buck currently, lol. The two does had little horns which I nipped off with hoof trimmers, then burned well... I far prefer disbudding at less than a week of age, though.

I've never done disbuddings when it's supposed to be brutally cold... but because we do them in the enclosed workshop that stays above freezing (well, at least I hope it does this week... brrr!) it should work fine.

Frosted Mini's · #27 01/06/14, 12:32 AM

There is one veterinarian who is also a very well known dairy goat breeder who uses anesthetic on her kids at disbudding with no problems. She thinks it is cruel for them to be awake for the procedure..says that people who have access to anesthesia and dont use it should have to have the hot iron held to their head. :P She had the national champion alpine, saanen, and lamancha this year so if the anesthetic was that big of risk i doubt she would be using it on her very valuable goats...used in very tiny amounts.

CraterCove · #28 01/06/14, 07:29 AM

Maybe if the vet is also a goat person I might be okay with them using anesthesia but because of goat metabolism it's a really delicate operation, as I understand it. If they make anesthesia available to me at reasonable price and I can learn to use it myself, without a vet, then I'll do it--- but most people can't afford a vet visit fee plus the anesthesia plus the disbudding. It's ridiculous to think that people do disbudding without knocking the goats out because they are wantonly cruel and I find it mildly insulting that someone would even suggest such a thing.

I care about my goats very deeply but some things are a matter of practicality. If I have to spend ridiculous amounts to let some vet who (in my area knows nothing about goats in the first place) maybe kill my goats, a source of income, milk, meat and joy for me? I would end up having to get out of them or go underground.

I have a real big problem with people who speak from a position of authority (like a vet) casting moral judgements on people with livestock. The next thing you know some well meaning dumbhead is saying, "There oughta be a law." And there are enough well meaning people who know absolutely _nothing_ that law would get passed and we would have yet more restrictions placed upon us and one more way my livelihood and my family's well being is threatened by people who have no business in my life.

I disbud myself, I have a kid box and it's a fast procedure that makes my kids more marketable, showable, and keeps me and my family safer. To me it's necessary and so I do it because I'll not allow someone else to do something potentially harmful if mishandled to my goats.

Frosted Mini's · #29 01/06/14, 11:56 AM

This vet specifically said if you have access to anesthetic and dont use it...i think she was refering to vets who do so...she knows that most people dont or wouldnt be able to afford it if they had to pay the vet each time

Wendy · #30 01/06/14, 12:36 PM

Totally off topic, but it has me wondering. If a vet uses anesthesia for disbudding, do they also use it for others things, like castrating bull calves? Just curious. I would think putting them out to do simple procedures takes more time & is potentially more harmful than just doing the procedure & getting it over with. I think my kids are more mad about being restrained then they are about having their horns done. They do not like to be held down.

Anyway, to each their own, but like a lot of others, I could not afford the goats if I had to pay a vet to do the disbudding on them. If anyone is in SE Indiana & needs them done, I am more than happy to do them for you.

Frosted Mini's · #31 01/06/14, 08:21 PM

For the record i do my own without anesthesia(i am not a vet but could potentially get some from my f-i-l who is)...but i can kind of see her point. I Have used lidocaine before and the injections seemed to hurt them as much as burning does...