Help help please help I can't loose my precious Lily :((

Have they been copper bolused/Bo-Se(should be given together for proper copper absorption)?

years ago I had a Toggenburg doe who I watched die within a couple minutes of running around perfectly healthy. Necropsy showed she burst an artery and having watched her in the minutes before she died I know it didn't happen from another goat butting her. She was running around jumping on wooden spools but no other goats touched her and she didn't fall until she collapsed and died. She did scream before collapsing. Another breeder who lost a doe in a similar way suggested copper deficiency because one of the side affects is thin artery walls and her did appear to be somewhat thin from what our vet knew. It was just when copper deficiency was getting to be more known in goats and we had never bolused our does before.

...never bolused, just offered minerals but we haven't been able to get to a feed store that carries them lately (2 months) and I just realized all the deaths have occurred when we haven't had minerals out

That could have been a contributor to my goat's death. It was nearly 30 years ago and we never thought of minerals except a salt lick. When I think now of how little consideration we gave to their care, I'm surprised we didn't lose more. We didn't have anyone else to talk to and the vets had zero information on goat care. We had one die from eating cherry leaves. The vet thought she had rabies until we had them do a necropsy.
Squeaky, I know you came on here looking for help, and I'm very sorry you lost your doe. But this thread may help some other goats live. I knew that goats needed copper, but I didn't know about a lack of it thinning their artery walls. Yikes.

Thank you.

If you still have the body, it would be a very good idea to take it to a vet for a necropsy. a young goat dieing suddenly is cause for concern.

I think the eyelids turning pale was just from being in shock, probably from the hypothermia, and the hypothermia from not eating, going down and laying in the cold mud. But what caused the beginning of it, is what is important to find out. If you can't get to the vet, you could do your own necropsy and still potentially learn something. Have someone take pictures for you, and then you could potentially take those pictures with you to a vet to consult with them on the matter, giving a history of the goat as well.

I'm so sorry for your losses this year.

__________________
Nancy Boling
Frosted Mini Goats
Alpine and Nigerian Dwarf goats
2 Jersey heifers
1 guard llama
And whatever else shows up...
http://www.swfarm.net/

I don't have her body anymore. My husband took her before I could even remember to take her collar off. I got really depressed with Gemini's body laying around a few days waiting to be taken care of so he was quick with Lily.

Does it help if I say toast is shedding a lot but cocoa isn't? Would that indicate a deficiency? I used to feed everybody separately in the stand, but since noone is in milk, it's -20 between 5PM and 9AM, I'm pregnant, and opening their gate involves an 8 pound sledgehammer and a shovel to break all the ice that builds up in the morning and again in the evening I've just been filling a pan with their food. It's now pretty obvious that Cocoa gets the most food so separate dishes are certainly going to be my next order of business.

: / hang in there!

I think copper is the place to start. Calf boluses are not that expensive at the feed store or TSC. Search on the site here for dosage for your size goat. Get some good dark minerals like Cargill Right Now Onyx or get the Replamin Plus that others have had good results with. Get BOSE fromthe vet - a bottle is less than $20 here or they will sell it by the dose. You will be shocked how quickly you will see the difference. Sorry for your losses but you've got to get a handle on this or you're going to lose them all. (((((Hugs))))

They don't sell copper boluses in the feedstores around here, and don't know what you want if you ask...just usually have to order them online.

What do you feed them? You say you were feeding them individually on the milkstand, but I don't know very many goats that could get enough to eat in the time it takes them to eat it on the stand. Grain maybe, but they need hay or at least hay pellets to keep their rumens working properly, keep them from getting acidosis, and keep them warm.

__________________
Nancy Boling
Frosted Mini Goats
Alpine and Nigerian Dwarf goats
2 Jersey heifers
1 guard llama
And whatever else shows up...
http://www.swfarm.net/

I'm so sorry for your loss. I have absolutely nothing helpful to add, but wanted to thank you for continuing to post details and info even after your poor Lily passed. I am new to goats the last couple of years and sadly, the learning curve is something that our own goats have had to pay the price for as well. Everything that we can learn from each other's hardships is of such benefit to us all as a community. And please don't feel bad for having a tough time coping with weather & pregnancy, etc. Life is as it is... many times we just have to evaluate the energy reserves we have for that day and dole out what seems appropriate to each situation. You did what you thought was right, you're reevaluating and changing what you can... that is all ANY of us can do on any day.

Again, I'm so sorry for your loss. I wish I were closer, I'd come over and bring you some loaner feed pans and help you chip that ice.

The local livestock vet knows nothing about goats...claims to but doesn't. (Handles a lot of sheep, cattle, and horses). He wanted me to put Toast down because she was limping even though I told him it was because of an overgrown hoof. I don't trust him. He outright told me he doesn't think goats are worth the cost to save them when they get sick or injured.

Would a small animal vet be able to get BOSE?

I'll certainly be ordering boluses now.

So sorry for your loss. I know that goats are social animals and should be in groups, but I have to tell you. We have one goat, Oreo, and she has been our only goat for about 5 years. She has never had company. Except us. She really is just like another one of our dogs. She's very happy, playful, and gentle. Just wanted to tell you of our experience. Again, SO sorry.

__________________
If you're not going to SNORT....why even laugh ?
------------------------------------------------------
Andi

That livestock "vet" sounds like a real horse's patoot. Grrrr!!!

Sure, small animal docs can get BoSe. Lots of the large animal vets up north actually have it out on a shelf with their other "for sale" injectables. Hunt around. If you can't get it, let us know.

We order our boluses from Jeffers. Watch for sales.

{hug} You just are having a run of it, aren't you? You just keep on goin', you're doin' fine.{more hugs}

__________________
Je ne suis pas Alice

http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/

Had she been vaccinated? The cold mouth really makes me think of all the ones I have lost from entero. Any change in the rumen can cause the normal bacteria in the intestine to bloom causing toxins. Toxins can make an animal appear pale or grey in the eye tissues.

__________________
Michelle Peterson
Gray Rock Ranch
http://grayrockranch-com.webs.com/

I gave everyone their CDT early or mid October. Cocoa and Lily were supposed to be bred and due then but weren't. Started loosing goats end of October. Well except for Otto, he died earlier in the summer, but I really think he had brain damage from a traumatic birth or something plus trouble using nutrients. His twin brother was always 3x bigger than him and Cocoa knocked him unconscious at least twice before I found him dead.

I really think this has something to do with Cocoa. I watched her and Toast eat today. Cocoa snarfed down hers in 5 minutes and chased Toast off of hers...which she had hardly made a dent in. I kicked Cocoa off and watched Toast eat. It had to take her a good 30 minutes and I was FREEZING by then. Toast can hold her own usually but I think the really cold weather is aggravating some arthritis that came from her formerly overgrown hoof and Cocoa knows it. Are herd queens always this mean?

Any goat arthritis advice?

No, top goats are not always that mean. Short term for arthritis you can give banamine, but only for i cant remember if its 3 or 5 days. I think goats can have meloxicam which is another nsaid which is not as hard on animals' systems as most. You can also supplement with glucosamine and chondroitin for arthritis. I bet fish oil would help but id feel weord giving it to a goat. There are some antiinflammatory herbs too.

__________________
Nancy Boling
Frosted Mini Goats
Alpine and Nigerian Dwarf goats
2 Jersey heifers
1 guard llama
And whatever else shows up...
http://www.swfarm.net/

I used to have a heard queen who was a lot like that. I had to tie her up so the others could eat without getting killed. Once she knocked a friend down and stole a hot dog from her. She wolfed down the entire thing, bun and all before anyone could react. I thought for sure she would be sick but she was fine. It was hard to sell her because she and I had come to an understanding and she was actually very affectionate. But she was so mean and really violent to the other goats that I couldn't keep her. I sold her to a guy with a big herd who kept them mostly on pasture. She wouldn't be in close quarters with his other goats like she was here. After she was gone, I couldn't believe the change in the other goats. The herd was sort of at peace. No one was trying to kill anyone else. They no longer had to keep a constant eye out for fear of being rammed. My herd was no longer as chaotic. I was sorry I had kept her for so long.
Good luck. I hope you can figure things out.