Spotlight Sale Results/2013 ADGA confab

yarrow · #41 10/22/13, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

Isn't $400 going rate for PB does

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actually the going rate for a purebred (not american) nubian in our (as in mine & yours) part of the Ozarks is about $250 (that's for an adult doe..many times a doe in milk or bred back).. I see PB doelings being offered for $150 to $200 or so, ALL spring/ every spring. (area prices are probably some of the lowest in the entire country.. and there are A LOT of nubians in these woods, so it makes for lots for sale.)

susie mo. ozarks

dozedotz · #42 10/22/13, 10:36 AM

Agree with Susie and we are closer to St. Louis than you all are. We paid well over what the going rate is here (I know Susie has also done this!) because we LOVE nice Nubians and wanted good genetics. Our herd is more of a "pet" situation...honestly, though, I do not understand how anyone makes money in goats! lol They are beautiful, graceful ornaments...tricky sometimes to care for and wonderfully quirky to have around, but also expensive! We get $100. for a buckling and $200. to $250. for very nice and well managed girls...pays for the hay is about all I can say.

yarrow · #43 10/22/13, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dozedotz

Agree with Susie and we are closer to St. Louis than you all are. We paid well over what the going rate is here (I know Susie has also done this!) because we LOVE nice Nubians and wanted good genetics. Our herd is more of a "pet" situation...honestly, though, I do not understand how anyone makes money in goats! lol They are beautiful, graceful ornaments...tricky sometimes to care for and wonderfully quirky to have around, but also expensive! We get $100. for a buckling and $200. to $250. for very nice and well managed girls...pays for the hay is about all I can say.

I have to admit that my prices are higher then what I posted as ozark area avgs..(however my breedings and sales are not done/marketed for sales in this area..I know that most of my sales are further north or out of state).

BUT many of those low area sale prices are prices for kids from hodge-podge put together herds.. nubians of all styles, types, reg./not reg...a lot of this..some of that...a little more of oh I'm adding that too!!!..unknown herd names ..if there even is a herd name..(it takes years to build up a known herdname/clientele base..Most new herds will not be around long enough to build up either...folks get into goats and back out just as quickly.. the getting out puts a glut of goats onto the market for the next new person to buy up and start their very own *herd*

there are also lots of goat trader types in these woods..buy anything they can find for sale..put 'em with a buck...have tons of spring kids...that don't sale like they hope they will...kids who end up going to auction to be bought by the next person to start the cycle again...the other type I see all the time (and will no longer sale to)are the folks who buy up a bunch of decent nubians with nice breeding...then spring rolls around and the *online shopping bug* hits again.. they start selling off the herd they got the spring before (maybe bred the one time) and start all over again.. and again.. and again..

goats are not the only thing that goes for below value in this region.. goat milk sales for less then half, of what it would in a city.. again.. just too much of it out there (everyone owns a milk goat or two).. there just isn't on avg. a ton of spending money, so folks want cheap.. EXPECT cheap.. thus insuring that most goats sale for cheap... it really drives down the prices for everyone. (BUT, it's never going to change.. change comes very slowly to these parts.. that less then $200 mark is what they paid 40 years ago..it's what they expect to pay these days too)

susie, mo ozarks

dozedotz · #44 10/22/13, 12:00 PM

Can't disagree at all! If we were younger, we might consider giving it a go by purchasing Saada or Hoanbu or other really outstanding lines...perhaps showing (although I don't think I could deal with the disease threat...real or not...even at a younger age). As it is, we are not younger (!) and this little herd of nicely bred goats producing 10 or so kids each year is about all we can handle. There are a few out there in MO who are trying to build a national name recognition and if they are successful (like say the Nichols were) then they will get the big $$...and deservedly so. In the meantime, it behooves people like me to just accept the fact that no matter how expensive or beautifully bred your "darlings" are, it is still MO and the Ozarks and we do love it here for other reasons than getting top dollar for our "dumplings."

Doug Hodges · #45 10/22/13, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Backfourty,MI.

That's what I thought or at least around here. She was a 3rd generation. I paid $500.00 for my 6th generation doeling I bought this year.

What does 3rd and 6th generation mean?

Doug Hodges · #46 10/22/13, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yarrow

actually the going rate for a purebred (not american) nubian in our (as in mine & yours) part of the Ozarks is about $250 (that's for an adult doe..many times a doe in milk or bred back).. I see PB doelings being offered for $150 to $200 or so, ALL spring/ every spring. (area prices are probably some of the lowest in the entire country.. and there are A LOT of nubians in these woods, so it makes for lots for sale.)

susie mo. ozarks

I'll take everyone of your doelings for that price. You know I will

yarrow · #47 10/22/13, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

I'll take everyone of your doelings for that price. You know I will

LOL.. for that price.. I would just keep my girls as pets and not breed anymore..

susie, mo ozarks

dozedotz · #48 10/22/13, 12:16 PM

Goats that are the result of a breeding of two different existing breeds (Nubian doe w/Pygmy buck = Kinder or Nubian doe w/Nigerian buck = mini Nubian) go through generations. ALL of the generations are "REAL" minis or Kinders, but they are (or should be) more refined to the breed standard as the generations progress. Usually a first generation looks a little more like one of its very different parents than the next generation. After the first generation the succeeding generations are accomplished by breeding "Kinder to Kinder or Mini to Mini" The number of the generation is determined by the generations being bred together...a first bred to a third will produce a second.

Backfourty,MI. · #49 10/22/13, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

What does 3rd and 6th generation mean?

I'm sorry Doug, I must not have explained in my post but I raise Mini Nubians.
when you start with a Nigerian Buck & a PB standard Nubian doe their kids are 1st generation. You keep breeding to get the best breed standards for the mini breed & eventually when you make it to 6th generation they are or should look like miniature nubians. Smaller size but still look like the standards is the goal.

chamoisee · #50 10/22/13, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollowdweller

For instance the top selling animal, the Saanen, while the pedigree is packed with high appraisal scores and even a national show winner it would be hard for me to pay that much for an animal with no milk records.

I mostly agree with you, however....for a Saanen, milk records wouldn't be my first priority, because Saanens are pretty reliable about production. For Saanens only, my priorities would be: strength of feet and legs, particularly pasterns and rear leg angulation...and, purebred status. Purebred Saanens, particularly ones with good feet and legs, are becoming quite scarce.

It isn't that I'd overlook poor production in a Saanen, but I would be willing to accept an animal with average production for the breed, if the conformation was exceptional.

chamoisee · #51 10/22/13, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJSFarm

A lady who is interested in a LM doe I have for sale told me about a boer buck that went for11k! Yikes! And a doe that was around the same amount who was at some university and they were harvesting her eggs and using donor does for the offspring.
I had no idea boers, or any goat for that matter, is worth that!

If I were to pay out the nose for a doe, or owned an exceptional doe, that's exactly what I'd do with her: embryo transfer. Propagate her at the same rate we do with bucks, have a big batch of daughters all the same age, and pick the best 3-4 of them. It would be worth every penny and every single hassle that comes with embryo transfer, to get an entire lifetime's worth of offspring in a single season and be able to evaluate them side by side.

**mygoat** · #52 10/22/13, 10:47 PM

Embryo Transfer is QUITE common with boer goats. One straw of 2-3 embryos are often well over 1,000.00 each - but with a good vet, the sucess of laproscopically placed embryos is like 80% or higher. A lot of people will superovulate their very best doe, breed her to their very best buck, harvest embryos, and place them in recipients (which can be any breed, mothering quality is usually good and a lot of the time they'll use xbreds because of the mothers displaying vigour). It's an excellent way to keep the best of the best of what is born, get the most out of a buck/doe pair in just ONE year, and make a boatload of money selling offspring - or freezing and selling embryos.

Doug Hodges · #53 10/22/13, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamoisee

If I were to pay out the nose for a doe, or owned an exceptional doe, that's exactly what I'd do with her: embryo transfer. Propagate her at the same rate we do with bucks, have a big batch of daughters all the same age, and pick the best 3-4 of them. It would be worth every penny and every single hassle that comes with embryo transfer, to get an entire lifetime's worth of offspring in a single season and be able to evaluate them side by side.

Where would you get something like this done and what would be the cost?

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chamoisee · #54 10/22/13, 11:13 PM

WSU does it, IIRC. An aquaintance of mine had it done. I don't know if she went through WSU or through the veterianrian in Deer Park, WA....but WSU does a lot of work with goats.

copperpennykids · #55 10/22/13, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamoisee

I mostly agree with you, however....for a Saanen, milk records wouldn't be my first priority, because Saanens are pretty reliable about production. For Saanens only, my priorities would be: strength of feet and legs, particularly pasterns and rear leg angulation...and, purebred status. Purebred Saanens, particularly ones with good feet and legs, are becoming quite scarce.

It isn't that I'd overlook poor production in a Saanen, but I would be willing to accept an animal with average production for the breed, if the conformation was exceptional.

You can also contact the breeder for barn records - and with Des Ruhigestelle Eclipse (lots of records there) and Companeros Trevi (again records) and then the breeder can tell you how Araby Farm Arabella milks....well, whoever got that doe got a kick butt kid!

Simply stunning.

And yep - a bit rich for my blood, but not afraid to spend some money to get the animal/genetics I want - pays me back in spades every time.

Hollowdweller · #56 10/23/13, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copperpennykids

You can also contact the breeder for barn records - and with Des Ruhigestelle Eclipse (lots of records there) and Companeros Trevi (again records) and then the breeder can tell you how Araby Farm Arabella milks....well, whoever got that doe got a kick butt kid!

Simply stunning.

And yep - a bit rich for my blood, but not afraid to spend some money to get the animal/genetics I want - pays me back in spades every time.

True on the sire side that pedigree is good, although I have buck very closely related to Trevi and he cost me much less. Eclipse is from proven background although the number of animals related to Elf that have lost udder to mastitis does give one pause.

However like I say I would only pay that much if the dam's side had more depth of pedigree and milk records. Yes you could ask how much the doe and her relatives gave. Her dam for instance has a negative PTA for milk of -110, but I feel that many breeders go to a lot of time and expense being on test, showing and appraising to prove out their animals, and when a less than fully proven animal goes for such a high price it does a disservice to the people who truly try to prove their animals.

Doug Hodges · #57 10/24/13, 06:38 AM

Well thanks for contributing to my addiction. I have two doelings with Hoanbu in their lines coming next spring. Both dams came from Hoanbu and one buck. The other will be the sire that my cleopatra has.

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yarrow · #58 10/24/13, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

Well thanks for contributing to my addiction. I have two doelings with Hoanbu in their lines coming next spring. Both dams came from Hoanbu and one buck. The other will be the sire that my cleopatra has.

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two??? doelings as in already born doelings ?? or did you put in reserves and now you get to play the wait and hope game until spring??? (I always find waiting and wandering who will have what.. one of the hardest things to do)

susie, mo ozarks

Doug Hodges · #59 10/24/13, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yarrow

two??? doelings as in already born doelings ?? or did you put in reserves and now you get to play the wait and hope game until spring??? (I always find waiting and wandering who will have what.. one of the hardest things to do)

susie, mo ozarks

Reserves

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dozedotz · #60 10/24/13, 06:52 PM

Ok...I'll bite. At the risk of seeming to know too much (ooooooo!), is Imagine one of the does? Come on, Doug, you know you cannot be secretive on HT...