17 out of 18 Negative

**mygoat** · #21 10/05/13, 12:16 PM

If you have a doe that repeatedly tests positive for CAE over time, it means she is infected. If an animal is exposed and BEATS it, over time it will 'clear' the antibodies and test NEGATIVE. I would ONLY suspect this in like a show herd where an animal suddenly tests positive but *could* have been exposed recently. I would STILL isolate her and treat her as a positive. You could retest in 6 months to a year and see what her titre says, but me, I wouldn't waste the time/money or ever risk it with her again.

Most of the time, repeated positives means an active infection since MOST infections begin at a YOUNG age. Thus, if for example your 2 year old is testing positive and the rest of your herd is negative, chances are she is a TRUE positive. This is what I meany by interpretation. In your case, she has tested positive at two different places and is an ADULT, in a current herd that has no known positives. Chances are, she is a TRUE positive.

USUALLY it is just not worth it for the owner to try to test test test, isolate, pull kids, and HOPE the doe tests negative in the future when chances are, she will not. You're doubling or tripling your work load for just ONE animal (or a small percentage of the herd)- and in all honesty, is the doe worth it? Most people end up concluding no, and keep a daughter out of her (raised on prevention and test negative) or keep a daughter out of a clean member of their herd and move on with their life.

punchiepal · #22 10/05/13, 12:38 PM

http://www.premier1supplies.com/img/instruction/8.pdf
Here is one way to make a bucket
Have also seen them make from coolers to keep the milk at temp.

KrisD · #23 10/05/13, 01:03 PM

While I normally like Fiasco Farm I do NOT agree with her at all on this. I think she is completely wrong here.

wannalive · #24 10/05/13, 02:20 PM

ok, good responses.. im still learning, but sounds like 100% natural is not the way to go..

Tim D Pruitt · #25 10/05/13, 02:29 PM

Well according to the dictionary a fiasco is a complete and ignominious failure and following that kind of advice in that article will certainly doom one to failure. This is nothing short of disinformation. To turn a blind eye to CAE by neglecting to test and continuing to give raw milk to the kids is a recipe to become a very expensive fiasco. I know the expense and heartbreak that so many newbies have gone through when they find out they bought this disease and spread it to others at home. No wonder so many fail at raising dairy goats. We as breeders should clean up our act and become responsible about doing our part by helping to eliminate this disease rather than sticking our heads in the sand and pretending it will go away. That’s the reason I applaud every person who test and then does what is necessary to maintain a clean herd.

Tim D Pruitt
www.pruittvillefarms.com

Cannon_Farms · #26 10/05/13, 03:01 PM

out kid buckets are made out of square kittie litter buckets and regular 5 gallon buckets with holes drilled through so that the nipples can pop through the top and the hose go down to the bottom of the bucket. I highly recoment getting those red tube valves so that the kids dont have to work so hard to suck so much air. Pritchart nipple buckets are chronic leakers, and those with the red nipples at the bottom dont leak but the kids tear holes in the nipples in no time and it gets expensive.

harvestmoonfarm · #27 10/05/13, 06:58 PM

Has this doe possibly been vaccinated for CAE, which is causing a false-positive? Just a thought, though I am concerned about her knees. So sorry you're dealing with this

Frosted Mini's · #28 10/05/13, 07:04 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17954759 This is cows, and I don't have the full article, but the results are pretty interesting. In a nutshell, the calves fed with heat-treated colostrum actually received MORE immunity than ones fed with raw colostrum. These are dairy calves, who are all pulled at birth, so sanitation may not be as much an issue (which seemed to be the biggest reason the calves got better immunity) with dam-raised babies, sucking straight from the teat rather than getting the colostrum out of the animal, then having to handle it carefully thereafter.

It is true that some goats can be positive for life and never show symptoms, but the symptomatic goats are very sad to watch (so I've heard, I have no personal experience).

I had a positive doe before. I took her through 2 freshenings, 1st time I just got twin bucks, second kidding she had twin does which were pulled, and I sold her to a petting farm (she was asymptomatic), but I hope they make the right decision if she has any issues from the CAE. I milked her last, in her own bucket, and ONLY used the milk for calves. I was entirely paranoid the whole time she was here and I was dealing with her milk. She was separated while discharging goo after kidding, but ran with the herd other than that. I don't normally dam-raise, so there was little risk of her passing it to the other herdmembers.

If I had another doe and she was valuable to me, I would do the same thing-keep a doe kid and be done with the doe once she did.

Doug Hodges · #29 10/05/13, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harvestmoonfarm

Has this doe possibly been vaccinated for CAE, which is causing a false-positive? Just a thought, though I am concerned about her knees. So sorry you're dealing with this

Honestly her knees aren't bad. Must be a bad pic. I looked at her close today. Several have larger knees than she does. She's one of the few that always stands and rarely if ever drops To her knees to eat. Plus she gets around great. Always one of the first to run to me. I haven't had her long. It still could be a false positive. (Fingers crossed) I told bio tracking that I gave her CDT shot, copper Bolus, selenium and vitamin E, cydectin orally and had not had her long and they suggested doing her again in 60 days. However, I did the same thing to all the other goats.

SkeeterBlue · #30 10/06/13, 12:06 AM

Darn, Doug! That is tough!

:

Any elisa can give you cross reactive positives, even one that has a 99.9% sensitivity and 99.9% specificity (no such critter).

Personally, I would take every precaution, and separating her with a wether or two seems like solid good advice. Then I would wait 3-4 months and then retest. If she retests positive then she is positive, and I'd retire her.

If she retests positive, I would not breed her just because of her price! Without intensive management, she could cost you your whole herd and what is that worth? Sometimes we just have to make the hard decisions, knowing that going forward everything will be worth those tough decisions we made.

Good luck.

KrisD · #31 10/06/13, 01:54 AM

If she retests positive will the breeder take her back or give you some money back? Even without a warranty I would ask.

Doug Hodges · #32 10/06/13, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrisD

If she retests positive will the breeder take her back or give you some money back? Even without a warranty I would ask.

No. That's another story.

Alice In TX/MO · #33 10/06/13, 09:17 AM

Oh, dear. It may just be an expensive lesson.

My personal decision is to never, ever keep one that tests positive.

That's just me, and it hasn't happened. I hope you can come to a decision that works for you.

mpete · #34 10/06/13, 10:45 PM

First: RETEST..... make sure you use teat tape so if she gets sneaky and kids out wth you not there then there is still protection. Thank you for being responsible. CAE is dealable with if you want to. Its your breeding program...

Doug Hodges · #35 10/07/13, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpete

First: RETEST..... make sure you use teat tape so if she gets sneaky and kids out wth you not there then there is still protection. Thank you for being responsible. CAE is dealable with if you want to. Its your breeding program...

Teat Tape? Does it work? http://www.caprinesupply.com/product...teat-tape.html

Alice In TX/MO · #36 10/07/13, 07:06 AM

Yes, it does. Put a long U shaped piece that runs down one side of the teat and up the other. Put another long U shaped piece down the open side and up the other.

Put a NOT TIGHT piece AROUND the ends of the tape, where the teat meets the udder.

o&itw · #37 10/07/13, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

Hmmm. I'm going to look at the knees tomorrow. I've not noticed that in her except in this pic. The ones that I was worried about that actually have swollen looking knees came back negative. Maybe I've overlooked that in her. Thanks. I'll check that out. Why couldn't it be the $100 dollar doe? Not the $500 dollar one!!!

Can't give you any CAE advice, but there is something I would like to say that might help you put things in perspective. Back when I was starting out raising show animals it was really hard to get the best stock, and when one did it was very expensive. It was a struggle to get going as I wasn't particularly well off during those years. I made a decision that I would help other new breeders and younger people get started with good stock (cheaply) if I every made it big.

The most winning breeder at the time, gave me a lot of advice those first few years. (He was very well off) One of the things he asked me when helping me to grade my animals was to order them from first to last. After doing so he showed me his list. Then he asked me what I payed for each animal. He showed me that my evaluation of the animals was greatly influence by what I paid. He said it was natural, people that were not affluent were more affected by it than others, and that it caused a lot of problems for many a breeder.

He said, on the one hand, people could usually never breed up from "cheap" animals, and would spend a lot of money and time trying. But when they did buy quality animals the price always influenced their evaluation. He warned me never to sell a quality animal too cheaply to someone starting up saying that If that person bought another animal for 5 times the price he would value that animal 5 times as much even though the animal I provided was high quality and the animal that the other person provided was junk and that by doing so I was not doing the person a favor at all. He said that that wasn't the case with an experienced breeder, and that if I wanted to help someone out there it was a different story.

It was a hard but valuable lesson. You must look at each animal based on its merits and not its (initial) cost. Keeping an unworthy animal around will bring very high costs along the way, it reduces the quality of your gene pool, its food and medication cost just as much as any other animal over the years, plus it gets one started in the wrong direction.

If you judge this goat on its merits and faults, without regard to initial price, is it worth taking a chance on? Is the value it can add to your herd greater than the problems and work it can cause? If it is, then the only solutions is to isolate it (with company) try to get a set of good kids out (that you will still have to isolate and raise specially) and then get rid of it if it doesn't test negative in 6th months or so. If not, then of course you should get rid of it immediately.

From what I have read on your threads, you admittedly bought some goats before you were versed on making sure to get disease free ones. If it helps you take the pain... you might consider how lucky you were not to bring a worse and less fixable problem into your herd.

I have no experience to form an opinion here, though based on my present knowledge I think I know what I would do. My reason for posting this is to help you look at things as objectively as possible.

yarrow · #38 10/07/13, 01:00 PM

Doug... was just looking back at the pedigrees.. are ALL of those four AMERICAN, instead of PUREBRED? or just Tiki and Hula? If I recall the pedigree on the new spotted buck you bought.. I think he's registered PUREBRED.. (how were they sold to you? I can't remember what the ad said) - only noticed this now because I saw the one of the gals we were talking about/looking up online the other day.. she was posting about her AMERICAN nubians on a FB page.. made me go look at the two pedigrees I had of yours.

susie, mo ozarks

Doug Hodges · #39 10/07/13, 01:07 PM

I thought they were PB when I bought them. Cleo is PB. The other two are American. I didn't even notice until I was getting ready to send papers off. I wouldn't of spent that much on AM. It's a bad deal all the way around.

yarrow · #40 10/07/13, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

I thought they were PB when I bought them. Cleo is PB. The other two are American. I didn't even notice until I was getting ready to send papers off. I wouldn't of spent that much on AM. It's a bad deal all the way around.

Oh well, in the grand scheme of life.. them being americans 'tis just a small thing.. now, forget about goats for a while and go enjoy that new baby of yours..

susie, mo ozarks