Most hardy, easy keeping dairy breed

Alice In TX/MO · #41 09/25/13, 09:09 PM

I think you need to spend time looking for quality in ANY breed!! There are Nigerian Dwarf goats bred for milking with good teats, and there are Nigerian Dwarf goats bred for color and cuteness with tiny teats that are almost unmilkable.

There are Alpines bred for backyard goats with udders from Hades. I bought one years ago when I needed milk for an elderly friend. Never kept a kid from her, and I even had to put her down eventually because her udder became unmanageable. There are heavenly Alpines with good udders, too.

Any species is going to suffer from careless selection when it comes to breeding. The same is true in dogs and horses.

Pony · #42 09/25/13, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krebolj

I'm glad that in your area poorly bred is the exception, but what makes you think that your area represents the nation as a whole?

Oh, probably whatever made you think that the lack of good stock in your area was representative of the nation as a whole, I suppose.

Nah, I'm not testy, just tired of the recent posts attacking certain breeds of late.

We all love our goats. I don't love only Nubians, but my experience is obviously far different from yours. I didn't say anything negative about any other breeds b/c I know that there are huge variations across the country.

Frankly, if I were to only have a utility breed (as opposed to blue paper stock), I'd probably go with Snubians. The Nubian brings up the smart factor in the Saanen, and the Saanen calms down the high spirits of the Nubian.

yarrow · #43 09/25/13, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krebolj

Nubians have really been over bred because people "like the ears and the spots" and in that process health, production, and conformation were all overlooked. I have seen many in my area with overbites, split testicles, and most have lopsided udders. That doesn't mean they are all like that, but a lot of them are and I think that, in general, that is the issue that people have with Nubians. I have yet to see a lamancha or other dairy breed locally that is put together as badly as some Nubians. I know they are out there, but far less in number it seems.

Find a quality Nubian and you will have a good time

Good luck on your hunt for a quality nubian.. I like folks to have good time!

I actually own quite a few nubians that are flashy colored with correct ears, that milk very well.. You mentioned overbites (sorry, but an overbite is NOT a common fault in this breed.. UNDERSHOT -where the bottom jaw is forward, like a bulldog does happen, it is seen in some lines, due to the strong roman nose.. split testicles, happens in ALL breeds.. easy to fix.. don't buy/keep/use those bucklings if it bothers you..lopsided udders.. folks need to get better at milking out..
guessing these are the things you personally don't like when you see them?? we all have our likes & dislikes.. me, personally??? I don't like does that are steep rumped, down on their pasterns..weak backed.. have snow cone teats -that point forward due to the steep rump-. poor heads/pinched mouths

Many of my flashy, long earred girls give well over a gallon a day and hold their weight during lactation.... Edith always gave 2 gallons and held her weight pretty well..never as thin as the brown doe you posted the picture of.. (I've always thought weight loss and worm problems are as much a herd Management problem as a breed problem)

..is the breed perfect? nope.. far from it.. but I do think much of the breed's supposed health issues are because so many new folks are instantly smitten with nubians, so that's what they buy as first goats.... and many nubians in turn suffer from new owner learner's curve..

good luck on your search for a nicely bred nubian doe.. they really aren't that hard to find, if one just takes the time to learn about the breed/blood lines ect.

susie, mo ozarks

Alice In TX/MO · #44 09/26/13, 06:41 AM

There are two reasons I know that Nubians in southern Missouri are not only aesthetically beautiful, but they also have correct conformation. Here. Look for yourself.

(Note: I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't have Nubians.)

http://www.agesagoacresnubians.com/seniordoes.htm

http://www.ozarkjewels.net/nubiandoespage1.htm

JBarGFarmKeeper · #45 09/26/13, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBarGFarmKeeper

Not nubians!

You don't want to hear it but it is Nigerians. (Your bias is ugly...;-)

LaManchas aren't bad. We have weathered many a storm with them but for overall worm resistance and easy keepers...It's Nigerians.

In MY EXPERIENCE, there are some Nubians that are super easy keepers and others that, well, need more TLC. The TLC goats need to be fed separately from other breeds and fed more feed to maintain the same body, wormed frequently, where others seem to never need it!

I read on the Yahoo! group (maybe last year) that Nubians are not goats that mix well with other breeds. She said that in her experience that they tend to not fight their way in the feed pan like other breeds will. Maybe it IS just on a "goat-to-goat" basis.

There are MANY management differences in goats that I HATE. Dam-raised goats, some folks LOVE them...they can keep them.

People LOVE to take "pot-shots" at Nigerians ALL THE TIME! There is no difference in accosting them as opposed the the beloved Nubians. They have every bit as much value, are every bit as beautiful and some of us LOVE them. I have never seen a Nigerian under 9yo that had to be coddled to maintained weight...just saying.

krebolj · #46 09/26/13, 08:34 AM

The thin doe has had numerous fecal exams done; in fact monthly during lactation and always comes back clear. It is not a management issue but her genetics. And I like the snow cone teats that point towards my bucket- makes it much easier for my too early arthritic hands to get a grip on while milking, and enables my husband to milk as well since he has started losing function in his wrist due to the IED that hit him. We have "goat sat" saanens with the "show" teats who we hated milking because it quite literally hurt us to do it.

Like I said before, I'm glad the Nubians in MO are oh so beautiful and conformationally correct but I haven't seen that here. As a matter of fact there is ONE breeder in the state next to me who is breeding to improve Nubians and the others kind of just work with what's available...sometimes outcrossing to improve because as a general rule people cannot afford the $800 price tag that the good ones from next door come with, nor can they afford to ship from further. I saw the same thing in KY.

Now, can we stop attacking me for stating what is the norm in my area? And others for stating their experience with Nubians in their area?

SeaGoat · #47 09/26/13, 08:43 AM

Aw no one has mentioned the Oberhasli
They have been my best keepers here in Ga.

I have one Ober and I think pygmy mix and she is stout as a brick house. I have never had a single issue as far has illness or worms out of her.
My Ober buck hasnt given me any problems either.

Alice In TX/MO · #48 09/26/13, 09:05 AM

Not many Obers out there.

**mygoat** · #49 09/26/13, 09:47 AM

Pre kidding, your 'skeleton' doe looks to be a good weight. Post kidding, she looks like a high producing dairy doe that doesn't have extra body flesh. I see nothing wrong with her health - she's shiny, and she'll probably start gaining later in lactation or through the dry period.

yarrow · #50 09/26/13, 09:57 AM

I don't think anyone is *attacking* you.. you were the one describing what you dislike about the nubians in your area.. I know I was simply telling you what some of my pet peeves are when it comes to the breed..forgot to mention splayed toes..I like tight feet..

What I will admit to finding a little odd, is that just two months ago I remember replying to the thread YOU started about blue nubians .. you posted about how you have a blue mother daughter set of blue and wanting to breed more blues..

quote:"I have two Nubian does who are both the beautiful "blue" color...a mother/ daughter pair. I would like to have the best chance possible at kids the same color...how does the genetics work on that? Would I only get it from a blue buck, or black, or white??" you also posted pictures.... I pointed out that one was actually a black roan, instead of blue...another poster.. warned against breeding just for color... your reply is where I'm finding myself confused about the remarks you are making now.. regarding difficulty finding quality nubians
quote: "I know there is more to breed for than color, but I have a lot of really good producing/ good conformation goats to choose from in a variety of colors so I was curious which color/ patter would be most likely to produce blue kids" .....
I know things can change... but this drastic in two months???

krebolj · #51 09/26/13, 11:56 AM

Yarrow- yes....my budget changed as well as my goals. As a matter of fact I no longer have those two does because they had those teats that hurt to milk, and the one required severe intervention with kidding last year. I did not search out those goats, they were supposed to stay here a short time while their owner set up a new farm across the country and then those owners could not make it back to pick them up, nor did they have the money to ship. After thinking about it I decided that they were not what I wanted in my herd.

Also, those nubians that I had to choose from were all from the same farm and eat nothing but alfalfa trucked in from the west coast. This is not at all how I feed my animals, I feed mine what is locally available and I did not want to spend high dollar amounts to have the goat come to my farm and be average...I can buy average without emptying my bank account.

CAjerseychick · #52 09/26/13, 11:58 AM

My 2cents--
We got our little Nigerian/toggs from a herd that was 2 little Nigerian/togg does and one Nubian (the only one without horns)-- she was found on the side of the road and just the sweetest people loving thing to see-- and guess who is boss of that herd?
The Nubian!
We are thinking of getting either a mini Nubian or standard doeling in the spring to round out our 2 does....

SeaGoat · #53 09/26/13, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Not many Obers out there.

Which makes them all the better

chamoisee · #54 09/26/13, 04:16 PM

Hardiness generally refers to (or at least includes) being able to tolerate cold temperatures. So... Alpines. My does have kidded in -25 and -35 weather with no extra care (no heat lamps, etc) in a three sided barn, without losing any kids to the cold. Well, there was one kid that died during cold weather...but there was something wrong with him neurologically. Never lost a doe to kidding issues, and I had 10-20 does kidding per spring. Wormed twice a year, no navel wash, very little medicating, no vaccinating....and they did really well for me. They were excellent milk producers, healthy, resilient animals.

chamoisee · #55 09/26/13, 04:31 PM

Nubians (and keep in mind this is from the perspective of "hardiness" entailing not only disease resistance and vigor, but also cold tolerance, and that I'm only an hour south of the Canadian border): they aren't hardy. They are cute, they are emotionally needy, they have endearing long floppy ears and come in lots of colors, and they have nice creamy milk and the male kids fatten up nicely, but hardy, they are not, sorry. Those big roman noses which dissipate excess heat so effectively in hot climates, get nose colds in a climate like mine, and then they sling snot all over the barn. Those long appealing ears get frostbitten on the tips if they kid in February. Nubians are a lot of wonderful things, but they are not a breed I'd recommend for the northern states unless you want to coddle them (heat lamps for kids, beign present at every idding in cold weather because they kids will die or get frostbitten otherwise, etc). They are excellent for areas with warm weather as this is what they are bred for and adpated to.

dozedotz · #56 09/26/13, 04:47 PM

My, my, my! Well, I guess we all know now who likes what and who doesn't like what!! LOL. Like I said way back when, people may mean what they say, but there are others who mean it, too! Luckily, there are lots of goats for lots of folks. Best not to generalize or assume that everyone thinks the way you do...or that they see what is obvious to you! Somebody or several somebodies said a very smart thing: "there is no such thing as the perfect goat!" However, there is certainly the perfect goat in YOUR eyes! And that is the only goat that counts. I love Nubians! On the other hand, those little guys being cuddled in the above photos are certainly adorable and loved just as much as my long eared angels (with or without spots). Best to tread carefully when speaking about someone else's kids and kids...if you know what I mean...

chamoisee · #57 09/26/13, 04:52 PM

Shrug. If I lived down south, I'd have Nubians or, more probably, La Manchas, because they'd do better in such a climate than an Alpine would. There is a reason these breeds are referred to as "tropical", while the others are referred to as "Swiss types". You can raise animals that are not adapted to your climate, but they'll not do as well as a breed that is more suited to an area. It's kind of like how I don't even bother trying to grow melons here....melons are great, but growing 'em here is a waste of time.

yarrow · #58 09/26/13, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamoisee

Shrug. If I lived down south, I'd have Nubians or, more probably, La Manchas, because they'd do better in such a climate than an Alpine would. There is a reason these breeds are referred to as "tropical", while the others are referred to as "Swiss types". You can raise animals that are not adapted to your climate, but they'll not do as well as a breed that is more suited to an area. It's kind of like how I don't even bother trying to grow melons here....melons are great, but growing 'em here is a waste of time.

totally agree.. the heat and humidity down here is darn near a perfect climate for nubians.. which may account for so many nice herds ???? (I have 3 kinds of melons growing out on the patio LOL, but have yet to ever be able to get Delphiniums to grow as well here in the Ozarks, as I did in ridgetops of PA.)

susie, mo ozarks

colemangirly · #59 09/26/13, 05:55 PM

Don't leave out Kinders!! I love mine. Great milk and plenty of meat in a nice compact package. I don't feed mine grain other than what is in their sprouted fodder. My millers get alfalfa pellets on the stand and all the browse they can eat I know they are a smaller goat but considering their size and lack of grain just under half a gallon on once a day milking is great. Besides they are hardy and easy to handle

WildernesFamily · #60 09/26/13, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamoisee

Hardiness generally refers to (or at least includes) being able to tolerate cold temperatures. So... Alpines. My does have kidded in -25 and -35 weather with no extra care (no heat lamps, etc) in a three sided barn, without losing any kids to the cold. Well, there was one kid that died during cold weather...but there was something wrong with him neurologically. Never lost a doe to kidding issues, and I had 10-20 does kidding per spring. Wormed twice a year, no navel wash, very little medicating, no vaccinating....and they did really well for me. They were excellent milk producers, healthy, resilient animals.

When we researched what goat breed to get, that's what the research pointed to.. Alpines being cold hardy, easily adaptable to different climates, easy birthing, good mothers. That's what we wanted, so that's the breed we got and we've been very happy so far.

We got our one goat, Ping, in October 2010 and we have milked her ever since then, she is still giving us a gallon a day, and no, she has never been bred while on our farm. We tried to dry her up at one point, but nothing doing. She has been bred this year so hopefully we can dry her up before she kids!

Now I have read that milk of Alpines vary probably the most of any breed, so you would want to make sure that any Alpine you get has sweet tasting milk... and don't let them EVER eat wild onions, ha!

Ping's milk is not as sweet as another Alpine goat's milk which we started out with... her milk was sweeter and creamier than any milk I've ever tasted, including store bought cow's milk, but unfortunately she was a friend's goat and got killed by dogs.