CAE in goats

KrisD · #41 06/15/13, 03:14 AM

I personally know 4 goat rescue groups that buy from the slaughter auction on purpose. These animals are then adopted out to the general public. These are 501c3 actual rescues. The reason behind this is they think they are "saving" the animals from suffering and death. My first goat came from one of these rescues because I thought it was better to help a rescue and give a goat a home. I got lucky and mine are CAE negative. I test every 6 months.

If I ever had a positive (for any disease) I would cull/euthanize immediately. If it was CAE they would go to Freezer camp and feed my family. If it was CL or Johnes they would be cremated.

I think it's everyone responsibility to not pass the buck on to someone else to deal with.

ozark_jewels · #42 06/20/13, 05:53 PM

CAE is not the bugaboo that CL and Johnnes is. It is easy to control and easy to iradicate. Is it a nasty disease?? Sure! Is it a death sentence for a herd or even a goat? No. If the owner decides to put a tested CAE goat down, thats fine. Its their decision. If they decide to sell it at a slaughter or otherwise sale, its their decision. Agree with it or not, like it or not, its their decision. And as I like my freedoms, I will always fight for the right for them to make their own decisions with their livestock.
Do I *agree* with dumping a CAE positive doe on the uninformed?? Emphatically not.
I personally have kept CAE positive does in the herd in the past. Kidded them out, raised the kids on prevention and butchered the doe when I had all her genetics I wanted.
I have also sold CAE positive, *NON-SYMPTOMATIC* does with great milking ability to informed goat people who were ready and willing to manage the CAE in a responsible manner, to get the genetics these does brought with them.
But those were the exceptions, the really good goats.
Mostly, I ate the CAE positive does. Its a great way to stop them from spreading the disease to their kids. And a symptomatic goat NEVER got sold.
And I raised on prevention(in my case Jersey milk), and I kept my herd clean after I got it that way. I love having a clean herd, its great. Been tested clean for many years now and its going to stay that way.
I will never push or advise anyone to put down a lovely, healthy, non-symptomatic, productive goat.......JUST because a test designed by humans and run by humans says she has the antibodies to a disease. A disease that is NOT communicable to humans, that is easy to prevent the spread of, and that is mostly not crippling to the goat who carries it. Non-symptomatic does go on to liv very productive and long lives with nary a symptom. We just don't know much about CAE, including why some does test positive but NEVER show a symptom. If the owner of said goat decides that putting her/him down is best for the situation, thats fine and no one should pressure them not to. But if they decide to sell with full disclosure to an informed buyer, I also have no problem with that.
I personally will not take any of my does/bucks to a sale barn. If its not good enough for me to sell it outright to an individual, then I won't sell it at all. I'll eat it. And I have eaten many a doe and buck that was unexceptional.
I realize this doesn't work for large herds or small families(I have a herd of about 40 and a LARGE family), but it works for me.
Having dealt with CAE many times and many years....... Get informed, educate yourself, test before you buy, buy negative goats from buyers you feel comfortable with, ask to SEE their tests results! Make your own decisions. Make sure you test for the REALLY bad diseases such as CL and Johnnes. Don't be sidetracked *from* CAE, but also don't be sidetracked *by* CAE. When I was starting out, everyone talked about CAE, but I had never heard of CL. Take it from someone who dealt with it, you want to know about CL before buying goats! And if the seller won't talk about it, you DON'T want to buy from them. An honest seller should open to talking about any health issue you bring up.

o&itw · #43 06/20/13, 06:46 PM

People are getting sort of "hot" over this issue.

I guess my thoughts are that it perfectly OK to raise CAE goats, perfectly OK to sell them with disclosure. While it would be best to eat them oneself, there are obviously cases where that wouldn't be possible.

I only have a problem where they would be taken to an auction where they would possibly be sold to some unknowing soul. Some of us are used to auctions that sell only supposedly "clean" animals.

I find it unethical to reason "I'm out to make a buck (because this is my business), and if the buyers are to ignorant to know they might get diseased goats, that's their fault" We don't need more government regulation, we need to police ourselves.

"There's a sucker born every minute" is not a quote from Proverbs.

ozark_jewels · #44 06/20/13, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o&itw

People are getting sort of "hot" over this issue.

Aw, come on, we haven't even had any moderator deletions yet!! Seriously, compared to past "discussions", this is very polite. I am proud of the group.

I only have a problem where they would be taken to an auction where they would possibly be sold to some unknowing soul. Some of us are used to auctions that sell only supposedly "clean" animals.

Unless its a "sale", as in a breeder sale, then all auction barn animals are excess or culls for some reason. If its a salebarn, its buyer beware. That does NOT mean it is ethical to dump your diseased animals there. But it is done all the time by some. Even a "special" sale at a salebarn for a breeder sell-out, etc, is a terrible idea for buying breeding stock. Once it goes through the pens at a sale barn, no one can know if its still "clean" or not. Most diseases have run through those pens in the weeks before the "clean" stock sale.
Even shows/sales that require health papers can have diseased animals. I've seen the vet do those health papers. Look at the animal, do a hands-over and sign the paper. They have no idea if the goat is carrying CAE, CL, Johnnes or any other disease unless it is showing obviously. It is all about the honesty and integrity of the owner, and the buyer doing his/her research.

I find it unethical to reason "I'm out to make a buck (because this is my business), and if the buyers are to ignorant to know they might get diseased goats, that's their fault" We don't need more government regulation, we need to police ourselves.

Yes, that is EXTREMELY unethical, and word will get round about anyone who does that. You will be shunned by those in the know. Unfortunately there are always newbies who will get taken this way. If I find out first-hand that a goat person is doing this, I WILL tell other people about it. Thats not gossip, thats a warning.

My words are in bold above.