A member needs some help

Minelson · #41 04/09/13, 03:57 PM

Good job with the cud!!! I wonder why she won't eat the grass hay. hmmmmm.......Can you take a picture of her? I would like to see how skinny she is. Is she acting stressed out? Is she running away from you? (btdt with trying to take care of a sick goat)

Lorelai · #42 04/09/13, 04:41 PM

Right now she's standing with her ears erect and looking at us. She's looking more normal, just really sunken in where her belly should be full, you know? I might have gotten a little bit of cud down her, but I may have to do what you did, which is put it in warm water and inject it orally. And her backside is really yucky from all the loose poo. She takes a few bites of grass here and there, and her stomach heaves a little after eating something, but I haven't seen her chew cud. The problem is now my other goats have my number, and really object to the cud stealing, so I will have to wait and try again later. She doesn't run from me.

I'll keep working on getting some cud. I'll keep giving her 10 grams of Probios gel once a day, and the 5 cc B Complex. And the kaolin pectin, I guess, for the time being.

ETA: bdtd?

KrisD · #43 04/09/13, 08:04 PM

I suggested Red Cell because this doe was so sick, it certainly wouldn't hurt and there are other things in Red Cell.

Kulshan can do a fecal, it's usually $25. I just drop off a bag of poop I don't bring the girls in unless I have to.

Prima is pretty weary of getting poked since she's become a pin cusion and since she's drinking water I opted not to do Sub Q fluids. She is not horribly dehydrated just emaciated, amazing what a few days of not eating will do. The other girls look fine.

You can probably stop the CMPK.

I would not be against giving her some canned pumpkin and some arnica would help too.

I can help you draw blood for testing. I do mine all the time.

Pony · #44 04/09/13, 08:20 PM

Don't know her diarrhea situation at this point, but something that has helped us with a buckling was tea enemas. Yeah, I know it sounds dreadful, but it really helped the little booger. Strong black tea, room temperature, fill 'er up, get her walking to move it out.

KrisD · #45 04/09/13, 08:22 PM

BTDT= been there done that

If you have a fecal done they will automatically check for cocci. Cocci is rare in adults but if she is already weakened it's not unheard of.

FWIW my goats don't let me steal cud either. You see everyone swallow as soon as I approach. They know I'm up to something

If you do end up calling the vet use Kulshan and ask for Mike Anderson. He raises sheep but their care and treatment are very similar to goats. The vet stopped by this morning to check on miss Macy since he's the one I talked into induction meds. After seeing her kids and me telling him about her labor and delivery he looked shocked and said "are you a midwife? How did you know what to do? We would have just c-sectioned her, and you would be lucky if anyone made it." I told him this isn't my first labor, no I'm not a mid wife and by not sectioning her I have all 3 alive and well. He told me they wouldn't have gone in and turned the kids and pulled them out. He was beyond stunned that I forced open the cervix. She did pass a couple large blood clots but no infection so I'm happy.

Lorelai · #46 04/09/13, 09:22 PM

I went out to take a stool sample before I left for work (around 4) and I caught Prima chewing cud for the first time in a week! So that's encouraging. I took a sample in to Nooksack Animal Hospital and they ran a fecal for $18; we've worked with them once before. According to the sample, Prima has virtually no worm load and really low cocci counts. We did worm her with Ivermectin on Sunday morning. So as of now, she is getting the B complex daily, as well as Probios gel. And kaolin pectin for the time being as well. Is the B complex better given orally or injected? If it's better injected, then we can do that now that she's not getting poked so much.

Kris, I would love a tutorial on drawing blood. Needles make me really nervous, so an experienced hand would be wonderful. Also, I would like to talk to you further about making up some copper boluses for the goats as well. I would love to learn how to do that.

Thanks for everyone's input and support; I will continue to post updates, and I am hoping and praying that they are positive updates!

Lorelai · #47 04/09/13, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

Don't know her diarrhea situation at this point, but something that has helped us with a buckling was tea enemas. Yeah, I know it sounds dreadful, but it really helped the little booger. Strong black tea, room temperature, fill 'er up, get her walking to move it out.

Um... what do you use to inject? She will not love me for trying this. It might even be worse than the cud stealing, lol!

KrisD · #48 04/10/13, 12:39 AM

I would just use a 60cc syringe with a catheter tip. Just put the tip in and squeeze gently. I did this with Macy to prevent a uterine infection. Well obviously I did it vaginally but it's the same type of thing.
Did Prima pass her placentas when she aborted?

Lorelai · #49 04/10/13, 01:01 AM

Yes, Kris, she did.

Minelson · #50 04/10/13, 03:01 AM

So happy you caught her chewing her cud!!

now all we need are some nice round goat berries

Lorelai · #51 04/10/13, 01:47 PM

Prima seems to be improving this morning. She is now drinking water regularly, and this morning ate hay with some gusto for the first time in over a week. Clearly her appetite isn't up to where it should be, and she's still not acting completely herself, but the fact that she's eating hay again is really encouraging to me. Plus she gave me "doe eyes" this morning when I was hanging out in their shelter, observing.

Combined with the cud chewing I witnessed yesterday, I'm now really beginning to let myself hope that she will recover from this ordeal. Her back end is still poopy looking, though I didn't see any fresh plops, if that makes sense. Now that she's eating hay again, and is still getting the Probios gel (which I'm now totally sold on, by the way) and B Complex, I'm tempted to observe her closely today to see if I should let up on the kaolin pectin.

Inspired by the Jeffers thread, I went looking for the Selenium/ Vitamin E gel that KrisD told me about when she came over to help on Sunday, and found this product:

http://www.jefferspet.com/selenium-v...iv/cp/0030913/

I have to admit, I like the idea of giving a gel once a month by mouth and skipping the injection, etc. Anyone else have good experiences with it?

All of the goats are also due for their weekly Replamin Plus - it wouldn't hurt to give Prima hers as well, would it? (Bonus, now I have an empty Probios Gel tube to load the Replamin Plus into, yay).

Minelson · #52 04/10/13, 02:03 PM

Oh good I am so glad she is even better!! yay!
Can't help with the selenium question...we are not selenium deficient here.
Keep up the good work!

Lorelai · #53 04/10/13, 03:01 PM

Prima is definitely feeling better; she even tried to follow the other goats for their hour on pasture this morning, and she hasn't done that since she's been sick. I let her come out with me and eat some blackberry leaves, and since she wanted to, I let her get up on the stanchion and I gave her a very small handful of alfalfa pellets, which she ate (I have small hands). I don't want to discourage her appetite, so I gave her a bit to say, yes, you remember the stanchion correctly, and I'm so grateful that you're up on it and looking at me so expectantly.

Her poo is still really loose though. I did give her 45 cc of kaolin pectin after witnessing a loose poo, but I'm ready to try something else. Since her rumen seems to be getting back on track, I don't want to overdo it. I don't know if the kaolin pectin is helping as much as it should be, though I should be grateful that she doesn't seem dehydrated and is drinking and eating now. I wonder if it's time to change up my approach though. As others on the thread have suggested, I also haven't wanted to overload her system with too many things, so I haven't tried anything else for the diarrhea control yet. I may try the canned pumpkin instead of the kaolin pectin tonight if she'll eat it and her poo is still loose. As for the tea enema, I may resort to that too... but I'm still not quite sure how this will help solidify her poo.

KrisD · #54 04/10/13, 03:33 PM

I woud stick to the kaolin pectin because It also coats her stomach and keeps irritation down. You can try increasing the dose or do the same dose more frequently. You can definitely add the canned pumpkin as well, just small increments at a time. The enema is more for rehydration and soothe the intestins then anything. At this point she is holding her own and not getting worse so I would skip it. If she was dehydrated I would do it.

Glad to hear she is making positive strides! Can't wait to see Prima when she's all better with a nice fat rumen.

Lorelai · #55 04/10/13, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrisD

I woud stick to the kaolin pectin because It also coats her stomach and keeps irritation down. You can try increasing the dose or do the same dose more frequently. You can definitely add the canned pumpkin as well, just small increments at a time. The enema is more for rehydration and soothe the intestins then anything. At this point she is holding her own and not getting worse so I would skip it. If she was dehydrated I would do it.

Glad to hear she is making positive strides! Can't wait to see Prima when she's all better with a nice fat rumen.

Okay, I'll try doing the larger 60 cc doses every couple of hours today and see how that goes. The label says not to continue more than 2-3 days, and I today is at least day 3 if not 4 where she's been getting it pretty regularly. I've witnessed two loose stool movements; the second one was less. It's kind of a dark olive green, and does contain a little mucous, no blood. Prima's fecal tested really low for worms and cocci. She doesn't love the kaolin pectin, that's for sure. However, she does love blackberry leaves, which are supposed to help with diarrhea as well - who knew? Another thought - does the kaolin pectin interfere at all with gut flora? I've been giving her oral Probios gel, and want to continue it until she's really back on her feet, but I wonder if the kaolin pectin counters it.

All the goats get their Replamin Plus today as well...

ETA: Oh, and Kris, Shane is wondering if you've tried the rabbit yet?

And you are welcome out here anytime! Do you need your CMPK and syringe back?

GoldenWood Farm · #56 04/10/13, 05:08 PM

You know something also I was thinking was you could add some slippery elm to what you are giving to her. It won't hurt her at all and it is very soothing to the digestion tract. If she has some irritation going on it will help coat and sooth her stomach/digestion tract. Just another thought! Good to see she is on the road to recovery!

Justine