Non-GMO Alfalfa pellets

mammabooh · #21 02/12/13, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

(who is feeding oil to goats?)

People DO feed oil to goats...it is often used as a topdressing.

Sherry in Iowa · #22 02/12/13, 09:33 AM

I use Olive oil for the goats..lol..organic just like we use in the house. It's the first thing I use for bloat too.

Sherry in Iowa · #23 02/12/13, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Rest assured that the olives were not GMO. Also, rest assured that none of the refined oil from GMO crops contain any modified protein. Understand that corn oils, canola oil, vegetable oils, soybean oils likely came from a GMO product. It is also just as likely, and equally unimportant, that the guy that harvested the crop wears a baseball cap with a logo on front.

Gee..I don't know why you feel you have to comment on the olive oil. Where did I even come close to saying that olive oil was gmo? Where?

You have totally turned me off of this goat forum. When you decide to take a vacation..I guess I'll come back.

And just so I can get this off my chest..is it so important to be the biggest, loudest and most rude voice in the "room"? I hope this has given you a great deal of satisfaction. I am here..because I love goats, because I do raise them in a fashion that everyone else may not be aware of and I like to share my experiences with them.

I am also here..because my fibro keeps me limited at times as to what I can do. I rarely go on the other forums here..rarely. THIS is/was my home. But ya know what? As much as I love this place...I'm not taking this anymore. If you were answering a question..okay. If you were correcting me because you have so much vast knowledge..okay. But to laugh and act like I am oblivious to what I am feeding..horse pucky.

My fibro and I cannot take you anymore.

Rileyjo...no need to lock the thread over me. Sorry I vented..I will lurk on threads that are being inundated purposely by these people.

Ford Zoo · #24 02/12/13, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrisD

The pollen can travel 5 miles! That also means when I buy alfalfa honey I could be eating GMO honey now.

I was just talking to curator at the Science Museum of MN about this. She said corn pollen is known to travel upto 60 miles! I wonder then if alfalfa pollen would do the same, given the right weather conditions.

Oat Bucket Farm · #25 02/12/13, 10:54 AM

If the process of making refined oil from corn/soy/rapeseed/etc. completely destroys all genetic material so it doesn't fall into the GMO category, it still falls into the WAY over processed category and still won't be fed to my kids or animals since I am trying to avoid over processed foods in my household. And processing something until its DNA is destroyed, then yeah, its over processed.

Can I completely eliminate it, probably not. But I can limit it as much as possible.

Minelson · #26 02/12/13, 11:00 AM

Sherry, please don't leave...I love your posts!

Isn't there a block button or something you can use to not see certain posters?

farmerDale · #27 02/12/13, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oat Bucket Farm

If the process of making refined oil from corn/soy/rapeseed/etc. completely destroys all genetic material so it doesn't fall into the GMO category, it still falls into the WAY over processed category and still won't be fed to my kids or animals since I am trying to avoid over processed foods in my household. And processing something until its DNA is destroyed, then yeah, its over processed.

Can I completely eliminate it, probably not. But I can limit it as much as possible.

Thing is, it is as simple as the fact that the oil has no protein. It is not over refining IMO. It is not the refining that destroys the genetic material, it is that the genetic material does not exist in the oil because it is a protein.

Now, I do not currently have goats, though we are seriously considering getting a couple for milk. The goat forum is not my home. But if you found that goats were being mis-represented in say the outdoor forum, yet never hardly went there, would you let it slide? Or would you jump in with the correct information, and set things straight?

I roam through a lot of these forums on this lovely site. I have learned, I have shared, I have taught. If I see false information about something I specialize in, in any forum, I will not let it slide, and be lied about.

I think this is what happens with some of us on here. We only aim to correct false information, about things we do happen to have a lot of knowledge about. If this brings us to a forum we are not typically active on, in the name of correcting information, so be it. Why can we all not just learn from those who have experience and expertise in a certain field, rather than kick them off, get all upset that they are setting the record straight?

I would not ask Paquebot about raising pasture hogs, but I would ask highlands. I would not ask highlands about growing garlic, but I would sure ask Paquebot!

So if you have gm concerns, and are intent on getting your information from dubious videos, dubious and questionable websites, why can we not balance this information, with some of us who actually have grown these crops for almost 20 years? Do we have less expertise than some anti gm panicky knee jerk person who makes a video?

I hope we can be turned to for information is all. Our information is as valid or more as the information from someone who has never actually grown and studied these crops.

I just want to share this, so our friends in all forums understand why some of us show up when false information is posted. I would hope if we are adding to the conversation, that it is not a reason to be banned, or given infraction points for simply sharing an opinion..

Thank you,

Dale

April · #28 02/12/13, 11:46 AM

I am not referring to any specific person's posting. Having said that, there are many ways of sharing an opinion. Barging in and calling people stupid in a thinly veiled way and being sarcastic (and yes, you can put forth sarcasm in typing - it's all still language) is not a good way if you truly want to disseminate information. Instead that reeks of defensiveness and a knee-jerk response to feeling threatened. When people respond negatively, it's probably related to how the opinion was presented. I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone's behavior in particular.

It's incredibly easy to say, "This is how I feel and this is where I got the information." instead of "You're an idiot for thinking what you think." If you can't present your information in a civilized manner, I don't particularly want to hear from you. Again - I am not referring to a specific post.

rileyjo · #29 02/12/13, 11:57 AM

The issue is not whether we should be discussing Gmos. The issue is that some posters jump from forum to forum and bully anyone who does not share their opinion.

People are allowed to believe whatever they want. If they want to hate Gmo products with a passion, that is their right. If they chose to educate themselves (or not) to have a better understanding, that is their right.

There are bullies in HT who sit like spiders and bash. You cant have a full discussion if a bully waits to comment on every post that people make. Many a good and useful thread gets locked because people are not being allowed to express themselves without being ridiculed.

You can come on the goat forum and say the world is flat and the goats are going to fall off if they get too close to the edge. You are entitled to your opinion. I dont have to agree with you but I do have to respect your right to believe it.
We have rules about Evangelizing on HT. They are posted on the Admin section further down.
Please respect your fellow HT'ers at all times.

Ford Zoo · #30 02/12/13, 12:05 PM

Since this thread is about alfalfa, I'm going to redirect back to it. I have a time finding alfalfa bales in my area. Apparently it does not grow well and needs to be reseeded frequently, adding too much cost to the farmer from what I have been told. (Can non-GMO sed even be purchased now days?) I did buy some nice looking bales at auction a few years back for $2.75 a bale, but I'm sure I got lucky and that won;t happen again soon.

How does the bagged stuff, assuming I feel it is the brand I want to feed my goats, compare in cost to a 50# square bale. Guess I'm asking how much of the bagged stuff I would have to feed to equal a 50# bale, especially since it seems there would be less waste with the pellets. Chaffhaye is out of the question in my neck of the woods.

farmer9989 · #31 02/12/13, 12:29 PM

They just don't understand that no one(well a lot of us,most don't )wants gmo's weather or not they do any harm or not.
It's already part of the fabric .just don't want any more.
sorry for off topic

haypoint · #32 02/12/13, 12:35 PM

Lots of non-GMO alfalfa seed available. Hard to pick what variety is right for your area, climate, insect problems, disease problems in the plants, drainage, soil type, moisture, days between frosts, etc. Each variety is suited to different situations.
In areas where alfalfa can be mowed 3, 4 or 5 times a season and the variety matches up to a properly fertilized, Ph balanced, well watered, well drained field, alfalfa will out compete weeds. In other areas with less than perfect conditions, alfalfa will get choked out by weeds.
All alfalfa seed is costly and getting a field properly tilled up, smoothed out,limed and fertilized is costly. There is also pressure to simply grow corn and not worry about getting your hay rained on. GMO allows killing the weeds on the very first establishment year and again years later if the weeds start taking over. Saves soil, fuel, seed, while keeping the field in production and safe from erosion.
There are other varieties of hay that is good for goats. Birdsfoot Trefoil would be good for goats if cut early. Unless you are against feeding corn, a slightly lower protein hay and some grain might balance out while you are short on alfalfa.

Minelson · #33 02/12/13, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford Zoo

Since this thread is about alfalfa, I'm going to redirect back to it. I have a time finding alfalfa bales in my area. Apparently it does not grow well and needs to be reseeded frequently, adding too much cost to the farmer from what I have been told. (Can non-GMO sed even be purchased now days?) I did buy some nice looking bales at auction a few years back for $2.75 a bale, but I'm sure I got lucky and that won;t happen again soon.

How does the bagged stuff, assuming I feel it is the brand I want to feed my goats, compare in cost to a 50# square bale. Guess I'm asking how much of the bagged stuff I would have to feed to equal a 50# bale, especially since it seems there would be less waste with the pellets. Chaffhaye is out of the question in my neck of the woods.

Good question! I often wonder about that myself. My bales weigh about 50lbs and I paid $8.50. I think the pellets are around $12 for 40lbs. So if you figure by weight the bales are a better buy...but then you would have to factor in the waste and how do you do that? I guess I would have to figure out how long it takes me to go through a bag compared to a bale to get a rough estimate of which is most cost effective. Also...I just thought of this...I have to drive a lot farther to get the bales so I would have to include the gas I use in the price.

KrisD · #34 02/12/13, 02:01 PM

I have zero waste with the Timothy pellets. Yesterday it was $12 for 50#. The rolled oats were $14 for 50#. Yes I can get them cheaper but I am trying to support our local feed stored that has been struggling.
I will still do a grass hay in winter when there isn't much forage.

Ford Zoo · #35 02/12/13, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KrisD

I have zero waste with the Timothy pellets. Yesterday it was $12 for 50#. The rolled oats were $14 for 50#. Yes I can get them cheaper but I am trying to support our local feed stored that has been struggling.
I will still do a grass hay in winter when there isn't much forage.

What is the calcium content of Timothy pellets? I don;t think I have seen those around here and I only want the alfalfa for the calcium. Right now, I am top dressing feed with CC for at risk does.

Shygal · #36 02/12/13, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherry in Iowa

I am here..because I love goats, because I do raise them in a fashion that everyone else may not be aware of and I like to share my experiences with them.

I rarely go on the other forums here..rarely. THIS is/was my home. But ya know what? As much as I love this place...I'm not taking this anymore.

.

No need for you to leave your home, there is a simple solution - put him on ignore.

CaliannG · #37 02/12/13, 03:41 PM

Top dress with coconut oil here. As far as I know, there are currently no plans to GM coconut trees.

Palm trees neither.

farmerDale, haypoint, it really doesn't matter WHY folks wish to avoid GMOs, just like it doesn't matter WHY someone might wish to avoid carbs, fats, pesticides, blah, blah, blah. As Cagefree mentioned somewhere, if the only reason someone wants to avoid something is that they don't like the color, then they should be able to do so without anyone telling them that they are wrong.

haypoint, if you are used to meat goats, then you might not be aware of the practice of top-dressing with oils. Dairy goat folks have a pain in keeping fat content up in our dairy goat diets.

farmerDale · #38 02/12/13, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliannG

Top dress with coconut oil here. As far as I know, there are currently no plans to GM coconut trees.

Palm trees neither.

farmerDale, haypoint, it really doesn't matter WHY folks wish to avoid GMOs, just like it doesn't matter WHY someone might wish to avoid carbs, fats, pesticides, blah, blah, blah. As Cagefree mentioned somewhere, if the only reason someone wants to avoid something is that they don't like the color, then they should be able to do so without anyone telling them that they are wrong.

haypoint, if you are used to meat goats, then you might not be aware of the practice of top-dressing with oils. Dairy goat folks have a pain in keeping fat content up in our dairy goat diets.

But when someone says canola is a genetically altered plant, or that canola oil contains gm proteins, it is I believe the correct thing to share the truth. There is a difference between good reason to avoid something, and poor reasons based on mis-truths and lies, right?

If someone says something about gm crops or such, that is not a fact, but only a point based upon no scientific foundation, and spreads this is-information to others ( evangelizes), who are not in a position to have the proper information to learn from, it is my hope to share the other side of the story to supplement the total knowledge base.

Again, if someone were lying about goats, knowingly, or unknowingly in the poultry forum, I am sure the goat folks would crash the forum and try to share some truths about goats. That is how i am and will be about gm crops. It would be my hope a farmer who has used the technology, studied it, and used it carefully for 17 years, would be paid a bit of heed. As would the poultry professor who spread lies about goats in a non-goat forum...

AngieM2 · #39 02/12/13, 04:13 PM

farmerDale - rather than evangelizing here on this thread, there is a thread in Homesteading Questions for all those that are Pro- GMO altered foods and such. Your view point would be good there as that will be a reference where those with doubts can see your view point and not have it crashed on a thread in goat forum.

In favor of - or pro GMO people post here

is a link for your convenience.

Oat Bucket Farm · #40 02/12/13, 04:32 PM

The point of this thread is to discuss non-GMO alternatives. It is not here so someone can try to change another's mind. If you are all for GMO products and think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread (really? Is sliced bread the pinnacle or human success? Where did that saying even come from?) and make sure to include them in every meal, then no worries. We aren't trying to change that. You are most welcome to believe or disbelieve it as much as you want. This thread is for those of us who would feel more comfortable avoiding it.