Dr. Naylor indicator cards & Hoegger supply
 

This is also in the sticky above, but I wanted to make sure as many as possible here read this. I want the "Truth in Advertising Job" in our government. Really, I was nice through this whole experience, but it was not easy!!!!


I had been trying to contact the Dr. Naylor company through their online contact and have not been able to. This morning I decided to contact them by phone.
I spoke with a rep (I think her name was Jennifer) about the Mastitis indicator cards. She did confirm for me that they do not work for goats, due to the different PH levels of goat milk as compared to cow milk.

I checked the Hoegger supply web site and confirmed that they say "Guard your milking does against mastitis with these color indicators to test for positive identification of mastitis infection".

I called Hoegger supply and spoke to a rep (did not get name). She went and got a box of the product, read the info on the package, and said it would work for goats. The info on the package does not mention goats, it only mentions cows. I told her what the Dr. Naylor rep said and I told her they need to correct the info on their web site and quit promoting this product for use with goats.
She said she would follow up with management about this issue.

I was nice! LOL I did not even ask for a refund. I did tell her they could send me something for helping them out and I did state that I would be sharing this information.

SPIKE

Yup. Useless for goats.

Someone selling milking supplies on the local CL has this as part of the package. I'll let them know they don't work for goats. I wonder if they'll change anything?

Crud! I did not know this! Okay..who, what and where do you get the mastitis test strips for goats?

I think it has to be sent to a lab for testing. Read the sticky at the top of the goat forum here for how and where

I called Hoeggers for an order..before I gave the order, I asked about the strips. She said they DO work for goats. She kept saying..Miss Ann used them for years.

So let me ask you this..doe the CMTs that they advertise work for goats or not?

I just googled Dairy Lab Services for Iowa. Blessed to find one close as in next day delivery. Gonna try it and see what happens. So far it's $4.00 a test..I have 2 goats. They also run component tests..but I can live without that one right now.

I have some of those cards, hoeggers sold them to me as useful for goats. hmphf.

No. CMT does not work for well for goats unless you use it regularly and watch for CHANGE.

It is my understanding that goats naturally have a higher somatic cell count than cattle, and that is what the CMT reacts to. Thus, a one time test with a CMT may react, but there isn't necessarily an infection.

Call me crazy..but you would think that since they KNOW the ph is different between the cows and the goats..they would make a GOAT test as well as the COW test. The lab gal I talked to first said that they actually have to re-calibrate their machines when going from cow to goat or vise versa.

As much money as goat people spend..we all ought to raise heck over the fact that we can't even get a GOAT mastitis strip manufactured. AND..as long as I'm being outspoken, anyone who sells this stuff as working for goats when it doesn't..ought to be slapped down. How many goats got a worse case of mastitis because the owners were using strips and "kits" that were bogus for goats?

How can they make this claim, when Dr. Naylor (the maker of the product in question) will tell you it will not work on goats!

How did Miss Ann know they worked? Did she always get a negative results? Did her goats have to suffer? :grit::shrug:
This is not right on Hoeggers part!:nono:

SPIKE

[QUOTE=Sherry in Iowa;6391362]Call me crazy..but you would think that since they KNOW the ph is different between the cows and the goats..they would make a GOAT test as well as the COW test. The lab gal I talked to first said that they actually have to re-calibrate their machines when going from cow to goat or vise versa.

As much money as goat people spend..we all ought to raise heck over the fact that we can't even get a GOAT mastitis strip manufactured. AND..as long as I'm being outspoken, anyone who sells this stuff as working for goats when it doesn't..ought to be slapped down. How many goats got a worse case of mastitis because the owners were using strips and "kits" that were bogus for goats?[/QUOTE]

We have the ball rolling. I think everyone should call Dr. Naylor company and tell them how their product is being misrepresented.
Everyone that purchases anything from Hoegger should call them and express yourself in the manner you see fit!
I have no problem with differing opinions, but this is fraudulant and unethical practices.

SPIKE

Dr. Naylor 607-263-5145

Hoegger Supply 800-221-4628

Save the goat Mammory system. Call today, Call often!!

Hoegger could check with Dr. Naylor, about the use of the Mastitis indicator card, as easily as I did! They need to stop selling this product for goat use!

SPIKE

Deleted because I found the info. See below.

A quick search yielded this...

http://www.drugs.com/vet/dr-naylor-m...ndicators.html

Spike..I hope you don't think I'm arguing with you or anything..I was sharing my experience yesterday. Both with Hoeggers and the milk lab.

I don't know who I'm mad at..Naylor made the strips for cows..that's evident. If he is totally in the dark about how Hoeggers, Amazon and a zillion websites are saying to use them (with goats), then I guess he can't be blamed. But if he is aware of dealers selling them as "goat products" then he IS responsible too.

I found this..what do ya think? PortaCheck goat milk tests

Here's one dealer..Wisconsin..and price Goat milk tests

_If_ the goat has a higher somatic cell count than a cow, wouldn't that just mean you would get false positives? If you are using a CMT and it reads positive, your goat may be fine just has that higher count, but if it reads clear, your goat shouldn't have mastitis regardless? I was thinking it was like using a pregnancy test for humans for goats, the hormone is different, so the reading can't be accurate at all.

In other words, if the strips read there isn't a problem, that could be correct? It's just the positive readings that are questionable? Or have I totally misunderstood?

Hey Carol. I actually called Hoegger again this morning. That is exactly what the gal told me too. That the strips "may" give a false positive. If you get one..then you proceed to test further. I don't see too much of a down side..unless I'm not looking at something right.

As long as the strips keep coming back clean with no color change..I am assuming I'm okay. If they turn color..I'm gonna retest knowing that a false positive is possible with them.

I followed the link and read a lot of the info there. It appears to be an interesting and viable product for early mastitis detection.
They even state when they developed a product especially for goats.
I was disappointed when links to the articles under their "News and Events" did not work for me.
Anyone have The Dairy Goat Journal, volume 90 number3, May/June 2012 issue. It would be good to read more about this product and I guess this is a reputable/honest publication.

SPIKE

Almost everything is "off label" for goats, the money is just not there. Dairy Cattle (and Beef Cattle) are a huge industry where companies and researchers (Universities) put their time and money. So we have to make do for the most part, even sheep seem to have more research dollars. Goats are the ugly step-cousin of the livestock world ;)

Hey I bought some of those from Hoeggers too. Why? Because they were supposed to work for goats too. Well fiddle, now I got a whole pack and I'm skeptical to trust them.

I use the CMT to test for change. Once a week I test a sample, if I get a different reaction or a higher gel than I should then we send off a sample for testing. This works for us. Only had one doe that "changed", sent off a sample and it was positive. Not only did we know it was positive we also knew what strain so as to treat appropriately. With the CMT a healthy goat will create a "slime" reaction, one with mastitis will create a gel. But it must be used regularly so that you know exactly how that change looks if you ever get one. Blessings, Kat

Maybe I just want things too simple. Maybe there is just not enough money to be made by producing an inexpensive mastitis indicator card that works correctly for goats.
Maybe I do not have enough chemistry background. If a card can be made for cows that gives you accurate results, and if the difference between cow and goat milk is known, then should it not be a somewhat simple step for those with the knowledge to create a card that works for goats?

SPIKE

I had a boss once tell me what assuming will do for you. ( When you assume, you open up the possibility of making an ass out of u and me.)

If a product is promoted to work for a certain purpose, then why should a person have to think it does not work as indicated. If it can give me a false positive, then why should I trust it to be correct when it gives me a negative results.

SPIKE

Whatever Spike. There's goat mastitis strips out there.

Because it measures the somatic cells which are present in mastitis cases. If you get a negative, there are no somatic cells present. Cow or goat, no somatic cells are good. Where the confusion occurs is if it detects somatic cells. Because cows have been bred to produce as few as possible, the reactivity of the strips has to be very sensitive. Goats have not been selectively bred to unnaturally lower their somatic count (which I have to wonder if a low count may actually be along the line of antibodies?), so can cause false positives. Why would I _not_ trust a negative test?

Regardless, they _do_ make goat tests (I don't think they are strips), so you can get those. I just feel better about people using a CMT that already have it now that it's been explained better :)

In case anyone missed it, Hoeggers responded up top...
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/liv...-mastitis.html

Wow. I think we got their attention. :D

I'm not selling these, and I've never used them, but here's the link.

http://www.portacheck.com/portasccgoat.php

Alice's link would not work for me.

The links posted above by Sherry (post 16), will take you to Portacheck's site.

I followed the link and read a lot of the info there. It appears to be an interesting and viable product for early mastitis detection.
They even state when they developed a product especially for goats.
I was disappointed when links to the articles under their "News and Events" did not work for me.
Anyone have The Dairy Goat Journal, volume 90 number3, May/June 2012 issue. It would be good to read more about this product and I guess this is a reputable/honest publication.

SPIKE

Thanks CarolT. I guess that makes sense.

I guess I should have asked the Dr. Naylor rep to explain to me why she said their mastitis indicator cards do not work for goat testing.

SPIKE

I guess this will just have to be one of those issues that I can not understand why the maker of a product and the seller of a product do not agree.

I guess I will just stay somewhat confused. Our posters here do not all agree either.

I will continue my first line of defense; proper udder treatment including clean bedding and living environment, teat dip (of some sort ) when the orifice has been opened, and using a strip cup for a visual check.

Dr. Naylor's mastitis indicator cards are the cheapest. Approximately 25 cents per card with 4 test spots. You could test both sides of the udder very inexpensively.
Porta test kit claims to be more reliable and is only approximately $2 per test. I guess that is only one side of the udder, I'm unclear on that.
Still beats having to ship something and wait for results.

SPIKE

Just clearing up one thing. When you take samples and ship and wait for results, you get so much more than a test strip.

You get the exact name of the bacteria and a recommendation of what antibiotic to use.

No guessing.